[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru - Ep. 6 Dawn of the golden witch

[rogerpepitone]

The final red of Episode 5 ("... wasn't moved after death.") was a simple trick that worked on Erika only because it was delivered on her so suddenly. She must have figured it out shortly after the game ended.

Why would Battler use exactly the same trick again right afterwards? Why not use, say, the second twilight from Episode 1 or the first twilight of Episode 2? There's no way he could have expected the trick to work.

Remember the quote about Moses:

Many miracles that happened in myth can be said to be the crystallization of a shocking magic power, that had a low probability of happening and an astronomical risk! That Moses parted the waters of the sea was not a miracle of God - the risk of that desperate situation, cornered by soldiers on the Red Sea's shores, weighed upon the scales of slaughter, gave birth to the miraculous magic power. Even if the same thing occurs again, on same scope, the sea will no doubt not part.

That is because Moses, instead of betting on incalculable odds in the roulette of those with power, managed to spectacularly draw to himself the single miracle carved within the eyes of many. That power that can triumph over astronomical odds!! Yes, magical power is that fortune through which miracles are grasped!! To obtain this mighty magic power, one must face the risk of despair!! Those who possess no magical power call that desperation rather than a bet!
However, people who truly have magic power grab that miracle and fulfill the mystery!! And if that power exists within me...! I'll seize that miracle and I'll be able to make the wish I devoted my life towards come true!!"

So I don't think that Battler knew exactly what she was going to try, but gambled on her not having figured out the rules, and leaving a hole corresponding to one of them.

[winter 923]

Originally Posted by Renall

He's the one giving them their options. They can't do their amazing plan unless he lets them. If the plan was to move Battler emotionally, how did they have the slightest idea what he'd do even if he did feel sympathy?

He is asking Dlanor who mentions the removal of the sticky tape and that is why she can't fight. So the suggestion comes from the Human side not from Battler.

Is 3 really the least number of tape Erika needs? can't it be done with 2?
2: 1 for Battler and 1 for 'everyone else' or is there a need for one of these 5 people in the room next door to escape for Erika? Who is actually in the room next door? Hideyoshi, George, Shannon, Kumasawa, Nanjo. That's a very dangerous mix if you go with Hideyoshi/George theory. And the one with the gun is Hideyoshi. Nanjo won't play superhero, we know that from EP3.

[serverwolf]

the number 3 is a number people think instinctivly
its come from the feary teals (3 wishes, 3 godmothers...) its not that spaciel number to call out...

[UsagiTenpura]

No this cannot be a randomly decided number.
Not during an arc which's main theme is 3 couples fighting each other.

Erika could've done it with 2 tapes if she managed to get everyone in a single room. But they wouldn't fit unless it was the parlor who... oh! Already two corpses there so it's out...
Even if she did do it with two tapes alone, that's actually even more of a reason to believe in Genius Battler.

What you have to think is not about how much tape Erika needed, but that without three rooms the solution Beatrice found that completely confused Erika couldn't have been ever possible. 3 sealed rooms is a lot more useful to Battler/Beato then to Erika. Even Cornelia said something about that Erika was actually helping the illusion of the witch with her behavior.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by winter 923

He is asking Dlanor who mentions the removal of the sticky tape and that is why she can't fight. So the suggestion comes from the Human side not from Battler.

Dlanor is known to be something of a loose cannon for the human side even when bound to helping Erika. Again, several things are mentioned that the detective privilege doesn't allow of Erika, so specifically offering the tape seals is suspicious. That aside, making the tape unsticky to begin with seems to be a clear way to taunt Erika; Battler knows she likes to use it, so he specifically renders it useless, then offers it back. How can Erika resist?

[UsagiTenpura]

The thing is that Dlanor was "prevented" from using the red about the window in arc 5 for Battler's theory to let Kinzo out. We learned later on that this was prevented by the gamemaster, LambdaDelta.

This strongly makes me believe that the prohibition on the window was in fact something decided by Battler, the gamemaster. I do not think Dlanor can really simply do that on her own.

[Sniesk]

Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura

We learned later on that this was prevented by the gamemaster, LambdaDelta.

Where is this said?
I think Dlanor sealed the red because of Knox 2nd, so that Battler couldn't disprove Erika theory using the red truth about Kinzo. After all, that could work in the metaworld, but the final lines of ep5 (It's useless... it's all useless) probably means that Battler is having that discussion also on the gameboard, where there is nothing like an absolute truth. So he need an "human reasoning" or a statement backed up with some kind of proof to prove that Kinzo is dead

[UsagiTenpura]

Originally Posted by Sniesk

Where is this said?
I think Dlanor sealed the red because of Knox 2nd, so that Battler couldn't disprove Erika theory using the red truth about Kinzo. After all, that could work in the metaworld, but the final lines of ep5 (It's useless... it's all useless) probably means that Battler is having that discussion also on the gameboard, where there is nothing like an absolute truth. So he need an "human reasoning" or a statement backed up with some kind of proof to prove that Kinzo is dead

Hmm did you read what I wrote?

Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura

The thing is that Dlanor was "prevented" from using the red about the window in arc 5 for Battler's theory to let Kinzo out.

Cause I never taked about the Kinzo's death status. I talked about the window. Also if you read arc 5 you'll see Dlanor herself says it to Battler. It occurs in the "golden land" when Dlanor comes to see Battler and Beatrice. She says she apologizes because the use of red for that window was sealed by LambdaDelta. She then went on to say that LD and Bern were planning something evil.

However, concerning the last denial about using red for Kinzo's corpse, check LD's reaction, she's not even worried and basically hints about the upcoming gold text moments before it was said. I'm not saying she sealed that red however, as Dlanor had a valid reason then : It broke the Knox rules. Making theories about the window in arc 6 has no Knox reasons to be sealed.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura

The thing is that Dlanor was "prevented" from using the red about the window in arc 5 for Battler's theory to let Kinzo out.

That wasn't Dlanor that was Gertrude. But I can't blame you for thinking that. Gertrude's such a forgettable character.

[Arachanox]

Originally Posted by Judoh

That wasn't Dlanor that was Gertrude. But I can't blame you for thinking that. Gertrude's such a forgettable character.

You sure? I thought it was Cornelia...but I guess they are both forgettable like that

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by Arachanox

You sure? I thought it was Cornelia...but I guess they are both forgettable like that

I'm pretty sure Cornelia was guarding the door. Gertrude was the one guarding the window and that's why Erika kicks her around later.

[UsagiTenpura]

Originally Posted by Judoh

That wasn't Dlanor that was Gertrude. But I can't blame you for thinking that. Gertrude's such a forgettable character.

Thanks for that correction.
For some reason the scenes with Erika punishing her are unforgettable to me but I did forget the origin... I don't think that really changes anything for my theory tho.

[Sniesk]

Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura

Hmm did you read what I wrote?

Lol sorry i misread, then, you may be right. After all i don't see with what autority can Dlanor seal that blue truth... Even if a solution exist whitch doesn't involve the windows there shouldn't be any problem in making theories in blue about the window.

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by Judoh

I'm pretty sure Cornelia was guarding the door. Gertrude was the one guarding the window and that's why Erika kicks her around later.

Cornelia was guarding the window.

Spoiler for Cornelia:

By the way, nice work on that George culprit analysis.

[DgBarca]

Hum... does anyone knows what the hell is Erika ? Is she part of the 17 ?
If yes...in EP6, she can't be anyone but Jessica ? Well, if there is no doubt she is a girl, she must be Jessica :
Hideyoshi, George, Shannon, Kumasawa, and Nanjo are in the next room over! Erika can't be anyone in there.
Ushiromiya Kyrie...cannot save Battler.
Ushiromya Natsuhi cannot save Battler.
Ushiromiya Eva cannot save Battler.
USELESS. Rosa and Maria can't save him EITHER...*insert Dlanor crazyness here*
All five people I killed......were very much alive until the moment I killed them.
Erika is not one of those 5.
Of course. Three people--in other words, three bodies--went in or out. Only you and Kanon entered, and only Battler left. It has already been said in red that all people can only use their own names. Therefore, the names Erika, Battler, and Kanon can only be used by those people.
I guess you can get rid of Erika = Battler in there.
I acknowledge that everyone else is in the cousins' room.
If Erika is in this room, she is Jessica.
So I proclaim in blue : "If Erika is one of the 17, she must be Jessica."

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by DgBarca

Hum... does anyone knows what the hell is Erika ? Is she part of the 17 ?
If yes...in EP6, she can't be anyone but Jessica ? Well, if there is no doubt she is a girl, she must be Jessica :
Hideyoshi, George, Shannon, Kumasawa, and Nanjo are in the next room over! Erika can't be anyone in there.
Ushiromiya Kyrie...cannot save Battler.
Ushiromya Natsuhi cannot save Battler.
Ushiromiya Eva cannot save Battler.
USELESS. Rosa and Maria can't save him EITHER...*insert Dlanor crazyness here*
All five people I killed......were very much alive until the moment I killed them.
Erika is not one of those 5.
Of course. Three people--in other words, three bodies--went in or out. Only you and Kanon entered, and only Battler left. It has already been said in red that all people can only use their own names. Therefore, the names Erika, Battler, and Kanon can only be used by those people.
I guess you can get rid of Erika = Battler in there.
I acknowledge that everyone else is in the cousins' room.
If Erika is in this room, she is Jessica.
So I proclaim in blue : "If Erika is one of the 17, she must be Jessica."

After reading the last part of Ep 6, since I won't manage to continue reading for several months...
Hello, my Name is Erika [...]. I am the 18th person on[...]
Even if we elcome you there are only 17 people on this island!
The entity being washed up the shore was Erika F, yet there are still only 17 people on this island.
Therefore I declare that Erika was already dead when she arrived on Ro[...]!

[k//eternal]

The problem with her already being dead is that she goes and kills several people. Her identity is also verified by the statements about Battler's guest room door, unless the person passing as Erika is named Battler or Kanon (still needs to be a separate person from these two, though).

[DgBarca]

Originally Posted by k//eternal

The problem with her already being dead is that she goes and kills several people. Her identity is also verified by the statements about Battler's guest room door, unless the person passing as Erika is named Battler or Kanon (still needs to be a separate person from these two, though).

Well, it seems that Erika != Furudo Erika

[k//eternal]

That would be an issue for AC-Phoenix's theory, though, since the problem of the number of people isn't resolved unless they're the same.

[UsagiTenpura]

I'm pretty certain Erika = Beatrice.
Whoever is Erika is also Beatrice.
If Beato is Shkanon then Erika is probably Jessica tho.