Character Discussion - Kallen

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

Every single piece of Schneizel's evidence falls apart under the most casual of cross examination (i.e. Tamaki) to the point that Schneizel couldn't actually prove anything without Ohgi being a sellout and Lelouch's "confession." The only 'hard' evidence that the BK had was the Directorate massacre, and that didn't even come up at the meeting.

That the BK would even listen to Schneizel at all is idiotic beyond all sense.

i completely agree with all you just said
except for one small detail
the evidence WAS pretty flimsy and silly
it just also happened to be almost entirely true

and regardless of the way the evidence is portrayed, they black knights reaction is not unjustified when you remember that they actually ARE the sort of people who WOULD cringe at the idea of massacring unarmed women and children (with tamaki possibly being the only exception)
they dont turn on lelouch out of greed or because they are "evil"
they turn on him because they are presented with convincing (and mostly true) evidence that he is a monster

their reaction is based on fear and foolishness, and their use of kallen as bait is not excusable
but its not like its anywhere CLOSE to what Lelouch does to MAKE them turn on him

[Knightrunner]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

their reaction is based on fear and foolishness, and their use of kallen as bait is not excusable
but its not like its anywhere CLOSE to what Lelouch does to MAKE them turn on him

I wonder why people do not use tranquilizer guns anymore to get the person out of the way.

[bladeofdarkness]

probably because they figured "if she protects him, then she's on his side"
its possible that someone among the BK pointed out that the "monster" who had been "using them as pawns" seem to have a thing for kallen (ep 10 is a good example)
maybe they wanted to be sure what side she's on

the fact that they never told her about all the crap he did however, kinda makes the point moot, since its obvious she'll try to defend him if she doesnt know about who he really is

[Knightrunner]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

probably because they figured "if she protects him, then she's on his side"
its possible that someone among the BK pointed out that the "monster" who had been "using them as pawns" seem to have a thing for kallen (ep 10 is a good example)
maybe they wanted to be sure what side she's on

The big thing that would hit my head first as a BK member is that she is under the influence of geass.

"I guess they have the mentallity shoot to kill first then ask questions later."

[Betteroffer]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

i completely agree with all you just said
except for one small detail
the evidence WAS pretty flimsy and silly
it just also happened to be almost entirely true

Whether or not the evidence is true is irrelevent. It is presented in a poor fashion and by the second most unreliable source on earth, yet it is accepted with no cross examination.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

and regardless of the way the evidence is portrayed, they black knights reaction is not unjustified when you remember that they actually ARE the sort of people who WOULD cringe at the idea of massacring unarmed women and children (with tamaki possibly being the only exception)
they dont turn on lelouch out of greed or because they are "evil"
they turn on him because they are presented with convincing (and mostly true) evidence that he is a monster

The negotiation for Japan implies that they did not in fact care about the rest of the world as long as the got what they wanted. If anything Tamaki (at least his season one incarnation) is shown to be FINE with killing civilians and children, as was Nagata. Tohdoh is actually the only higher up who is EVER shown to be averse to the use of hostages (Stage 8) while the other BK are fine with whatever accomplishes their objective such as their response to the Kawaguchi incident on the news.

The evidence is true, but not convincing as Tamaki was able to prove.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

their reaction is based on fear and foolishness, and their use of kallen as bait is not excusable
but its not like its anywhere CLOSE to what Lelouch does to MAKE them turn on him

I still maintain that the BK were the normal sort of terrorist before Lelouch showed up, thus I believe that they were infact very close to what Lelouch did, if not worse, with scale being the only seperating factor.

[bladeofdarkness]

the black knights dont exactly seem offended by attacking the JLF defection group to help free britannian hostages
going from "so you want to work together" to "lets attack our own allies to save enemy civilians" is not exactly an easy step when you think of it
unless of course, you disapprove of their actions beforehand

but we seem to have drifted off topic somewhat
if you want to answer this, please do so in the general thread

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

they acted out of fear at finding out that the leader who preached about how they shouldn't attack civilians or that the strong should not oppress the weak turned out to be some kind of monster who murders women and children and even his own people

they over-reacted in HOW they did it (and using kallen is unforgivable)
but considering that the first thing ANYONE who finds out about someone having mind control powers seems to be "did he use it on me"
its not all that far fetched

This is all that needs to be said. Using her is just as low as any of the things Lelouch was accused of doing. The fact that Ougi was willing to use Naoto's siter, his best friend's little sister, as bait just speaks volumes.

[Paladinoras]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

This is all that needs to be said. Using her is just as low as any of the things Lelouch was accused of doing. The fact that Ougi was willing to use Naoto's siter, his best friend's little sister, as bait just speaks volumes.

Ougi is not really as awesome as he is cut out to be. Pschaw.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

Ougi is not really as awesome as he is cut out to be. Pschaw.

who cut him out to be awesome ?

[Bonzo]

Another question about a storyboard hole.

Kallen had a double life, strong rebel woman/weak health always sick woman....so, when that comedy started? nobody had suspect about it considering the longest absences without a medical check or a word from the parents/friends?

Or Kallen parents 100% doesn't care about what the daoughter do, otherwise is another logic question without answer.

[bladeofdarkness]

her "mother" seems to know she's going in and out of the ghetto alot
which seems to imply she knows that she isnt sick
she just doesnt really care what kallen does

[Paladinoras]

Originally Posted by Bonzo

Another question about a storyboard hole.

Kallen had a double life, strong rebel woman/weak health always sick woman....so, qhen that comedy started? nobody had suspect about it considering the longest absences without a medical check or a word from the parents/friends?

Or Kallen parents 100% doesn't care about what the daoughter do, otherwise is another logic question without answer.

Ehh...I think that Kallen's parents couldn't control her even if they wanted.

And as for Ashford...well, I am pretty sure they have an incredibly lenient policy on attendance. Hell, Lelouch barely comes to school and graduates easily. Kallen is also academically gifted, so I don't think it would be a problem for her to keep up with Lelouch.

[demon_god04]

Not to mention that the Kallen's britanian family seems to be rich and have a certain amount of influence. If Code Geass has shown us anything it is that Britannian families reasonably high up on the Social echelon are not questioned by commoners.

[Paladinoras]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Not to mention that the Kallen's britanian family seems to be rich and have a certain amount of influence. If Code Geass has shown us anything it is that Britannian families reasonably high up on the Social echelon are not questioned by commoners.

That won't really matter, I think...

Code Geass never explored her Britannian side, so to speak, although maybe the Stadtfeld name helped her gain entry to Ashford, but I don't think it will excuse her absence.

Plus the fact that she is not very close to her father, the Duke, so he would probably not support Kallen as fully as he should.

[demon_god04]

Her father obviously cared for her enough to take her into his family despite the stigma of her being half Eleven.

And also, we have seen commoners basically bend over backwards for the nobility at their slightest words, really who would question the daughter and presumably the sole heir to the Stadtfeld family over something so little as attendance? Kallen seems to get all her course work done despite the absences and seems to be top of the class in terms of her grades.

[Paladinoras]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Her father obviously cared for her enough to take her into his family despite the stigma of her being half Eleven.

And also, we have seen commoners basically bend over backwards for the nobility at their slightest words, really who would question the daughter and presumably the sole heir to the Stadtfeld family over something so little as attendance? Kallen seems to get all her course work done despite the absences and seems to be top of the class in terms of her grades.

Take her in, and not much else. He was never shown in CG at least to go out of his way to take care of Kallen, or even to punish her, or hell, ANYTHING. Even at the end of CG, Kallen is living alone with her mother, at a ghetto, and her father did nothing to change that.

Well, we cannot presume she is the sole heir. Duke Stadtfeld might be going crazy in the Brittanian mainland, who knows. XD

And well, as I said before, that was because Kallen is a very smart girl..She probably could do all of her coursework within one day, if she puts effort into it.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

Take her in, and not much else. He was never shown in CG at least to go out of his way to take care of Kallen, or even to punish her, or hell, ANYTHING. Even at the end of CG, Kallen is living alone with her mother, at a ghetto, and her father did nothing to change that.

Well, we cannot presume she is the sole heir. Duke Stadtfeld might be going crazy in the Brittanian mainland, who knows. XD

And well, as I said before, that was because Kallen is a very smart girl..She probably could do all of her coursework within one day, if she puts effort into it.

no where is it said her father is a duke
we have no indication at all that he is anything of the sort
all we know is that he is rich

[demon_god04]

Well, again that was one of my disappointments for R2 as Kallen's Britannian side was never fully explored. However, again, remember the kind of society Britannia is. Her father took her in and acknowledged her as a Stadtfeld. If he did not care for her at all he could have just as well left her running around in the Ghetto rather then link his family name to a half breed girl born by his Eleven mistriss.

We were not shown any siblings from the Britannian side, though admittedly we were not shown much period. But still it remains that her father is rich and powerful which makes it highly unlikely that the school would be willing to question her absence.

edit-

@ blade

hes not a Duke, although I do wonder about his social position, was there any side materials or anything that made mention of this or is it just left completely in the dark?

[bladeofdarkness]

completely in the dark

[Paladinoras]

I hate it that teh Stadtfeld name was not explored further. I really do.