Clannad series - Overall Series Impressions & Total Series Rating

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Haak

^ Aaaaah I dunno you guys. I mean Cross Game is stunningly brilliant and all but I feel like it's comparing apples to oranges.

That's true but I still doubt that Cross Game would pass Clannad on my list Clannad just holds the number 1 spot and I don't know if I'll ever experience another anime better than this series, but who knows. I really do like Cross Game though, such an amazing and underrated series.

[Archon_Wing]

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=697

Hey, this guy hates Clannad. I think you should convince him otherwise. Oh wait... (looks at post date and name)

So much can change in such a short time. I can't believe that was my first post on this site. And that thread keeps getting bumped to remind me of it. Sometimes it's just too easy to judge a show by its cover.

But I'm sorta weird when it comes to these things. All the shows I end up liking the most I always start out hating. I wonder why? Personally I think Clannad ranks so high for me is that I would normally hate something like it as suggested in my old post. It's easy to throw in fanservice, moeblobs and violence and get people to watch a show but Clannad earned its place by going the hard way (aka writing a story people care about)

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=697

Hey, this guy hates Clannad. I think you should convince him otherwise. Oh wait... (looks at post date and name)

So much can change in such a short time. I can't believe that was my first post on this site. And that thread keeps getting bumped to remind me of it. Sometimes it's just too easy to judge a show by its cover.

But I'm sorta weird when it comes to these things. All the shows I end up liking the most I always start out hating. I wonder why? Personally I think Clannad ranks so high for me is that I would normally hate something like it as suggested in my old post. It's easy to throw in fanservice, moeblobs and violence and get people to watch a show but Clannad earned its place by going the hard way (aka writing a story people care about)

For a second there while I was reading that post, I actually got a little angry Then I realized it really was your name there and the post was about a year old A lot of things can change and it's really surprising to see you type something bad about this series (even if it was way before you watched the whole thing.) Glad to see that you changed your mind after getting the full experience

[Khu]

Clannad was never a dating sim.

Never was, never will be.

It will always be a visual novel.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

For a second there while I was reading that post, I actually got a little angry Then I realized it really was your name there and the post was about a year old A lot of things can change and it's really surprising to see you type something bad about this series (even if it was way before you watched the whole thing.) Glad to see that you changed your mind after getting the full experience

I thought the show just eventually did a good job of proving itself. But at least I certainly have a different perspective on these things as I can understand why people wouldn't like the series. Personally, I eventually decided that the shows' flaws can be mostly overlooked. I'm generally very quick to drop anything I don't like, so a show has very little time to stand out. I also get a little less defensive when people hate the show, because I did too at one time.

Originally Posted by Khu

Clannad was never a dating sim.

Never was, never will be.

It will always be a visual novel.

At that point, I had not bothered to make the distinction. Being not so familiar with anime at the time, I felt that we were being bombarded with a ton of moe harem series adapted from adult visual novels, and assumed there were all the same. I had given Air a pass, because it didn't look like any of that. I expected Kanon and Clannad to be more like Air, which they are but I simply couldn't get to them at first. I believe I immediately took a look at Kanon afterwards and just found it to be really boring. I still find the beginning of that show pretty lackluster, though it is a great, though inconsistent, show past the first few episodes. This kind of carried on to Clannad, which opening episodes were stronger, but by that time I was really quick to dismiss it. The genre of harem is still my least favorite but eventually I got around to watching and enjoying them. I'm also not a really huge fan of moe, despite the presence of it in series I like.

But as a funny aside, I was always shocked to learn that Clannad is the clean game.

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

At that point, I had not bothered to make the distinction. Being not so familiar with anime at the time, I felt that we were being bombarded with a ton of moe harem series adapted from adult visual novels, and assumed there were all the same. I had given Air a pass, because it didn't look like any of that. I expected Kanon and Clannad to be more like Air, which they are but I simply couldn't get to them at first. I believe I immediately took a look at Kanon afterwards and just found it to be really boring. I still find the beginning of that show pretty lackluster, though it is a great, though inconsistent, show past the first few episodes. This kind of carried on to Clannad, which opening episodes were stronger, but by that time I was really quick to dismiss it. The genre of harem is still my least favorite but eventually I got around to watching and enjoying them. I'm also not a really huge fan of moe, despite the presence of it in series I like.

That's one huge misunderstanding about this series in my opinion. Although I've seen it labeled a harem so many times, it's far from it. I've seen real harem series where the male protagonist is either completely oblivious to love or he's completely indecisive. Clannad should not fall into this category precisely because he never showed interest in any of the other girls aside from Nagisa. The Gym locker with Kyou is the closest thing but even then she misunderstood the situation and Tomoya was more uncomfortable than anything else. I just really think that people get thrown off when they see "harem" labeled on Clannad when it's not even close to being one. The only thing similar is that almost all the girls like him and the number of girls, but at the very least they don't fawn over him.

[Archon_Wing]

Yea, it's quite obvious where he'll end up, and any other insuation is quite over after the first 2/3 of the season. The female characters don't solely exist to be a potential love interest in the story.

I dunno, blame Wikipedia.

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Yea, it's quite obvious where he'll end up, and any other insuation is quite over after the first 2/3 of the season. The female characters don't solely exist to be a potential love interest in the story.

Yes, exactly. I just think it doesn't help Clannad being labeled as such, I wish it wasn't since I'm sure it would be more appealing to those that don't come to forums and want to find an anime to watch.

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

I dunno, blame Wikipedia.

I guess I should

[Khu]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Yea, it's quite obvious where he'll end up, and any other insuation is quite over after the first 2/3 of the season. The female characters don't solely exist to be a potential love interest in the story.

I dunno, blame Wikipedia.

It died at episode 17.

Forever.

[Archon_Wing]

Yea. That would be 2/3 into the first season. Though some people argue it died in the first 5 minutes.

[Khu]

Yeah I know.

You could totally tell from the beginning, actually. XD

(remembers how Nagisa's entrance brought COLOUR PSYCHEDELIC FEVER DREAM~)

[WordShaker]

YES.

Ahem, ah. Good contrast to the drab gray, yeah.

[Triple_R]

Just finished my Clannad: After Story blog review.

This one's a bit more in-depth than my review of Clannad's original season, and maybe a bit more controversial, just to prepare people, lol.

It also contains comparisons between Clannad: After Story and the Gurren Lagann and Mai HiME animes... comparisons that are a bit spoilerrific.


Still, I hope that most folks here enjoy it.

Here it is!

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Just finished my Clannad: After Story blog review.

This one's a bit more in-depth than my review of Clannad's original season, and maybe a bit more controversial, just to prepare people, lol.

It also contains comparisons between Clannad: After Story and the Gurren Lagann and Mai HiME animes... comparisons that are a bit spoilerrific.


Still, I hope that most folks here enjoy it.

Here it is!

Bravo, a very well thought-out and coherent review. In my opinion, episodes 9-15 could be a matter of taste but there's nothing wrong with being honest The ending of the anime is as controversial as always, this is something that I'd probably not argue with considering the sensitivity of this particular subject. There are plenty of people that believe the ending was a "cop-out" of sorts but I don't believe that's true because Tomoya developed and learned from those experiences whereas most shows that pull off an ending such as Clannad's, have nothing to justify it.

As much as I would agree with an ending where Tomoya lives on without Nagisa, I can't help but be glad that he got the opportunity to live happily with his whole family. As long as there are animes out there with tragic endings, Clannad has no reason to apologize for a conclusion full of hope rather than despair.

[Archon_Wing]

Nice Review, Triple_R. Episodes 17-21 most indeed did happen, at least to Tomoya and Ushio, if you looked at the very end of the recap episode. The miracle at the end is the result of the whole series; as in those seemingly irrelevant arcs had those light orbs. You could see the whole series as a series of increasingly large miracles that cumulate into the biggest one (hope and life)-- hence the whole spring motif. It's not necessarily the best explanation there is, but I think sometimes explaining it makes things worse, as happens a lot in anime and fantasy. I will admit that the Key stories tend to put emotion above logic and thus have rather odd ways of reaching a conclusion, but it's not too bad here. This is really a taste issue; we won't boil you alive for not loving the show unlike certain fans of another show...

Spoiler for Air and Clannad:

One wonders if the ridiculously depressing ending of Air caused them to write something happier for Clannad.

Spoiler for Mai-Hime, and Clannad, since you had to bring it up:

Mai-HiME is another series that gets hit hard with criticism because of its rather convenient ending. But I'm of the opinion that some of the worst of the series happens right before such as psycho- Shizuru, and was glad it was undone. It's also a series that has fun and doesn't take itself that seriously, and actually prides itself on being cliche as hell and getting away with it. And it really does...

But of course I just feel that the sad/depressing/melodramatic parts of both Mai-HiME and Clannad tend to get overemphasized so much that it's all that comes up when those series get mentioned outside this forum (along with omg omg what a ripoff!) Of course, those parts were well done, but they are by and far a part of the series, not the entire series. It annoys me as much as dismissing Higurashi as a gorefest or dismissing Shana as a shrill tsundere show. But I'll just stop ranting here.

In any case neither show, Clannad or Mai-Hime

Spoiler:

would a depressing ending really be that suitable for the overall mood and theme of the entire show.

And before anyone tosses cliche at me, I argue that everything is cliche, including dark depressing emoness, which Key tends to do enough of sometimes.

[Khu]

Triple_R: first of all Clannad was meant to be commercial. It was meant ot generate sales and I believe Maeda was FORCED to make it a happy ending by Visual Arts. However after he was given full rein for Tomoyo After.

Although I liked the happy ending. It still taught its lessons that it had, and it needed just that extra spark of supernatural because of the IW. If the IW wasn't there, then I woulda not agreed with it. But because it was, it added the mysterious aspect to the anime, and let it stand just a bit apart from real life.

Because if it was real, that'd be really heartbreaking.

[Triple_R]

DeX-kun, Archon_Wing, and Khu - Thanks for all the feedback, and info. What you said about Tomoyo After sounds very interesting in particular, Khu.

In fairness, After Story's ending was at least foreshadowed a bit through the IW subplot. And it was a happy ending, and all else being equal, I tend to prefer happy endings over sad endings.

Also, Archon, I wouldn't call it a cliche ending. I mean... there's only so many different ways an ending can go, and, like you've said, they've all been done a lot. So, I don't really see either type of ending as being any more cliche than another type.


Anyway, my critiques of After Story don't take much away from it for me. It's still one of my favorite animes, and it has an outstanding cast of characters.


I guess that... since After Story did give us a happy ending, ultimately, I would have liked to have seen an episode or two of Tomoya's family living happily ever after, so to speak. You could say that After Story would benefit from its own After Story.

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I guess that... since After Story did give us a happy ending, ultimately, I would have liked to have seen an episode or two of Tomoya's family living happily ever after, so to speak. You could say that After Story would benefit from its own After Story.

I completely agree with you. This is something that I ranted about earlier, I wanted at least one more episode showing us the Okazaki family living their life together and maybe even a reunion with the rest of the cast while we're at it. Well, one can only dream

[Haak]

On paper, I don't think there's anything wrong with the ending.

The problem was that it was just a bit...well...weird.

Who ever heard of a town giving miracles and having a concious? Huanted houses and towns, sure. They're possessed by ghosts and spirits. What was Tomoya's town possessed by? Happiness? A lot of people don't even take it into account when trying to understand the ending, even when the importance of the town is stressed over and over again in the series. Why? Because they just don't want to.

Plus it's a bit odd that Tomoya must go and live his life with other girls in order to collect enough light orbs, just after he goes through character development in the form of wanting to have loved Nagisa no matter what.

I think the ending would've been a lot better if we were shown that Tomoya was actively trying to get more light orbs and was fully aware of it, perhaps showing a bit of desperation as well. Then it would've felt a bit more earned.

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Haak

Who ever heard of a town giving miracles and having a concious? Huanted houses and towns, sure. They're possessed by ghosts and spirits. What was Tomoya's town possessed by? Happiness?

I couldn't help but laugh

Originally Posted by Haak

I think the ending would've been a lot better if we were shown that Tomoya was actively trying to get more light orbs and was fully aware of it, perhaps showing a bit of desperation as well. Then it would've felt a bit more earned.

Well if the plot were changed to your alternative, this anime would feel like it's breaking the 4th wall. In a sense, it would take away the definition of a real miracle. I believe that if you felt weird about it, the anime did it's job Miracles are not something that we would call real or if they even exist (arguable considering sometimes things do happen in real life that one cannot explain,) so it's understandable if you get that type of feeling from it. I admit that even I wasn't sure what was going on the first time watching the ending, but as it went on I began to understand little by little while letting it sink in, it felt right. At least to me.