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View Poll Results: Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 22 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 14 | 36.84% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 14 | 36.84% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 9 | 23.68% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 1 | 2.63% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 0 | 0% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll |
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2013-03-02, 13:32 | Link #24 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Los Angeles, California
Age: 39
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You gotta explore more and drop a lot of those misconceptions about the area, there's a lot that you'd miss. |
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2013-03-02, 14:12 | Link #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Yakomarou almost certainly is following them to get the weapon.
He KNEW about it. This is how he'll control the children he's kidnapping after he wins the war. He'll just use the weapon to kill them. Hurry up and realize this Saki so you can just destroy the super anthrax spores. |
2013-03-02, 14:31 | Link #26 |
Six Shooter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: USA
Age: 43
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What a painful episode. Let us count the ways.
First, Saki's mother leaves the plans to defeat the Akki in a letter to her daughter, who as far as she knows might dead. If Saki is dead, no one reads the letter, and show's over folks. Stupid. Second, Saki's parents don't go to Tokyo themselves, because . . . Third, no one ever bothered to send an expedition to Tokyo to retrieve the psychobuster before, because . . . Fourth, Kiroumaru tells them how he would defeat the fiend, namely through the same methods the queerats have just used to kill several other humans, but instead, the humans are like, screw that, we're going to Tokyo to get a superweapon which may or may not exist. Fourth, use your Cantus to cover up your scent and tracks, noobs. Inui, where are you on this one, buddy. Thought you had "skills". Fifth, weaponized anthrax exists in aerosol form. It's not a powder. Sixth, despite being a society with a vastly different concepts of gender, it will still be the girl who freaks out about bugs and poop. On the plus side, a slow clap for Saki on finally using her brain to do more than direct her Cantus and begin to question how this "akki" was created and what he actually might be. Last edited by Trajan; 2013-03-02 at 14:41. |
2013-03-02, 14:45 | Link #27 |
Shinigami
Join Date: Jan 2006
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The more I think about it ... I don't know that they need to kill the "fiend" to win (in the long run).
If they all split up and use guerilla tactics (yes not their style perhaps, but everyone has to adapt) and kill all the rats they can when the "fiend" isn't around, then it won't matter whether they kill the "fiend". Sure they'll take losses when they stumble into the "fiend", but the rats seem to be pretty spread out & present a lot of targets. For example, if the rest of the humans actually knew that the "fiend" was in Tokyo with a handful of rats, they should be able to wipe the rest out. The "fiend" can still only be in one place at one time. A good commander should be able to take advantage of this & force the rats to move their key piece somewhere predictable & then strike at other targets once they can account for the "fiend". Of course improved communications (which I was really hoping Saki would brainstorm into) would help a ton with this ... |
2013-03-02, 15:03 | Link #28 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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It didn't cross my mind that Kiroumaru might betray them but now that people said it I can't get the thought out of my mind. I have to admit it is not outside the realms of possibility. On one hand we think Kiroumaru hates Yakomaru but perhaps that was part of their plan all along.
Or maybe Kiroumaru does hate Yakomaru but hates the humans even more. Still I'd like to believe he is a noble guy who does care about Saki and Satoru. I am not sure if I entirely understand how an anthrax attack wouldn't activate the death feedback and I always wonder if the novel explained this type of thing better? My only thought is anthrax is a living organism doing the killing for you (perhaps that is stretching it though). Edit: I am beginning to think this psychobuster plan will fail or Saki won't go through with it. I just find it odd that 3 episodes left the series will have told us how they will defeat the "fiend" and save the day, no there has to be some type of twist. We now know that some humans can communicate in the rat language, whose to say Saki & co can't get through to Maria & Mamoru's child after all?
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Last edited by Kirarakim; 2013-03-02 at 15:20. |
2013-03-02, 15:22 | Link #29 | |
Six Shooter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: USA
Age: 43
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This might not be a problem, but for the fact that the self-appointed protectors, like the Ethics Committee and the Wildlife Management force, have proven to be absolutely terrible at their jobs. Tomiko was stunningly incompetent at her job, and she probably only kept the role due to her society's avoidance of conflict (who would challenge her directly?) and lingering Japanese elder-respect. I mean, no one seems to mind that Tomiko's hand-picked successor is a 26 year-old of average Cantu power who has violated the rules of society several times and was ordered to be killed twice! In the end, if the human society falls, it will be because the initial advantage PK gave its users over regular humans came to be a great disadvantage as society relied on its use far too greatly. |
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2013-03-02, 16:43 | Link #31 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Austria
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I'm thinking that death feedback is just an extreme version of your usual kill inhibition. Remember episode 19 where the four people in the boat fried all those bakenezumi with their cantus? The woman was physically sick afterwards. Saki was slightly affected. Satoru and the man were barely affected, if at all. I don't think that's death feedback; I think that's just a natural reaction to having witnessed death. There's individual variation in how you respond to that. Even without deathfeedback, killing isn't easy. Messier killing methods are harder to pull off. Smash someone's head in with a hammer > running someone through with a sword > Shooting someone > dropping a bomb on a house from a plain. It also depends on the amount of imagination and empathy you have. I'd think death feedback works like this. Thus killing someone with a delayed method you don't yet sub-consciously associate with killing should be relatively save (not necessarily safe, but safer than killing with cantus, which necessatates imagining the results to even work). Quote:
Note that it's possible for Kiroumaru to be on their side without falling into that role (or at the very least serve as a deconstruction of the trope). For example, assuming that the "fiend" can't kill bakenezumi for fear of death feedback, imagine a scene where Kiroumaru, with that battle bloodlust of his, kills the "fiend". He's saving them, but what they see is a bakenezumi slaughtering a scared and helpless human child. I hope with all my heart that the show is going to undermine Kiroumaru's "nobility". That doesn't necessarily mean betrayal. In fact, unyielding loyalty can be even creepier if played well. |
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2013-03-02, 17:10 | Link #33 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I think when Saki said she viewed the monster rats as "animals" that is what she meant as "animals" not another race of people. I think perhaps the author was trying to question our perception of human but I don't think he was comparing the monster rats to oppressed minorities.
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2013-03-02, 18:01 | Link #35 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Naturally I get busy as the show enters its last stage...... >_>
Anyway, very nice episode, although for some reason I hoped they would include more of Mizuho's letter in some way. :/ (I mean, Maria's letter got half an episode plus including a musical piece without any narration... by the way, I think this stage of the story is where the ED gets really ridiculous.) Oh well. Kiroumaru is so cool~ and I have to admit I squealed loudly when I saw the minoshiro library critter, it's so adorable! It's a pity Satoru has to carry it around, it would be so adorable if it would just totter next to them on those tiny legs... aaaah! so cute. Too bad this show is not the kind that is accompanied by plushies, I would totally buy this one. I have to commend the pacing, they're doing a really great job not making episodes feel rushed (even though they're breezing through the material, though obviously must of what is cut is talking or not plot relevant things). Though I'm a bit worried that with all the running around they're going to do from now on there won't be enough time for the really important talks... I hope they'll manage to do it. "Psycho buster," though. xD;; It's kind of accurate but still... I'm not getting into another argument about things that should be obvious if you pay attention or use your head instead of declaring everything as stupid, but just a few notes: Quote:
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...because they're old and probably wouldn't make it, while Saki and Satoru are strong and healthy young people? Saki's mother was in the second half of her thirties when Saki was born. Saki is 26 now. Do the math. Also, maybe-- just maybe-- they have something else to do, as mayor and head librarian, aside of releasing the cats. Maybe. Last edited by kuromitsu; 2013-03-03 at 17:33. |
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2013-03-02, 18:05 | Link #36 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Austria
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For the record, I do think that biological differences are important in the show. I do not think, though, that the difference matters with respect to the trope. Quote:
The shoe's on the other foot, too: the bakenezumi can play a game of "good human/bad human". And if the power balance shifts towards them, they're probably going to be no better. (I do note though that even Mr. fanatic rat of episode 21 didn't talk about bakenezumi supremacy; it sounded like "should have been equal" to me; in other words, you had long enough to get it, you didn't get it, you're not going to get it, so we'll take this convenient chance to get rid of you.) Note that it's not a matter of "treating them well"; it's a matter of setting the standards. |
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2013-03-02, 18:14 | Link #37 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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The reason why things like the magic negro or the noble savage are an issue is because they apply to real people who were misrepresented in the media. What are the monster rats the equivalent of and how does that apply to Japan (although Japan does have their own oppressed minorities & maybe I am missing something)? I am not saying the humans have treated the Bakenezumi right but that trope is not being used here because no one is being oppressed here outside of fictional characters. edit: Okay speciesm is a thing but I think we really need to separate that from racism & I am not really sure it applies to this series either.
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Last edited by Kirarakim; 2013-03-02 at 18:31. |
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2013-03-02, 18:31 | Link #38 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Austria
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Group A is in a position of power over Group B and judges Group B. Group B threatens group A, but a mamber of Group B chooses to aid Group A instead of Group B, thereby legitimating the power structures in place. That behavioural pattern is the same whoever the groups are. I don't need to make 1:1 comparisons to real life situations to recognise a narrative pattern. And my reactions to that pattern is pretty much the same, whether it's realistic or SF/F. [And there are people who would disagree with you that speciesism is not a thing. ~ ETA: I typed my reply before you edited yours. ] ETA: Yes, being precise helps. You may be right and it doesn't apply to the series. We'll see. I'd be disappointed, though. |
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2013-03-02, 18:37 | Link #39 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Dawn Storm let me explain what I mean better. I am not saying the humans are not oppressing, even being racist against the Monster rats if you will.
However I believe those tropes you mentioned apply to real races & groups. It's the narrative itself that is racist not the characters. I mean the tropes themselves make 1:1 comparisons for a reason. edit: Perhaps you can see the bakenezumi as a representation of "savages" so thinking about it more maybe you could see the "noble savage" trope in Kiromaru's role. This might be a cliche but it is not racist in the way when the trope is used to represent an actual group of people.
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Last edited by Kirarakim; 2013-03-02 at 19:02. |
2013-03-02, 19:02 | Link #40 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Austria
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"Noble Savage" is a good term, but I'd argue that, even if he should betray the kids, there are ways he can remain that, e.g. if the betrayal serves as a sort of "moral lesson" that they couldn't take from Yakomaru, for example. It's almost, but not quite, what I'm getting at. |
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