The Raki discussion

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

You mind giving me an example? I'm in the mood for a brawl tonight

:P Geez people are putting me to work on here today.

There are three big examples of irrational behavior by Raki in the Manga. I think the Anime had about two more. But basically.

Spoiler for case 1, The Black Card episode:

Elena: I always thought that with the monsters' powers, I could get stronger, but with a monster inside, one must have a strong human will... That's why-- I beg you-- Hurry ... While-- While I still have a human heart..."

*Raki grabs Clare Arm*

Raki: No, Clare! You can't! You're parnters! You're friends! No! You can't do this!

*Elena is fighting the awakening*

Elena: Claire ... I beg you!

*Raki still holding on to Clare*

Raki: I beg you! You're partners! Friends! No Clare! I beg you! Don't Kill her!

*Clare slices into Elena*

Elena: Thank you ... Clare ... To be able to die as a human...

*Clare goes on to explain how much Elena meant to her*

In this case, Raki physically grabs onto Clare in a dangerous situation, not only endangering himself, but endangering Clare. He has heard the situation of Claymores turning into yomas. He has lived in a village where a yoma was like a serial killer, slowly killing the people of the town, his whole family being some of its victims. Yet he is willing to let another such monster be spawned -- his rational being that Elena is Clare's friend. Furthermore, he disrespects a person's dying wishes, to want to die as a human. In the end, he caused Elena distress and prolonged her suffering.

Spoiler for case 2, Rabona:

*Clare jumps in to save Raki from the 'verocious eater' yoma*

Raki: Clare!
Clare: Are you all right? Are you hurt?
Raki: I'm okay. Just knocked around a bit.

*Clare gets up and into a stance*

Clare: I'll take care of him, while I distract him, you head straight for the door. Got that?

*Raki pulls Clare's cloak, distracting her, causing her to take her eyes of the yoma*

Raki: No wait! You're still Hurt! You cant--

*Yoma attacks, surprising clare, coming close to hitting both her and Raki. Clare jumps out the way, Raki is launched into the air by the force and lands on his back. Yoma attacks a vulnarable Raki*

Clare: Oh No!

*Raki screams in fear thinking he is going to die*

Clare: Raki!

*Galk jumps in the way to protect Raki*

In this case, Clare comes to rescue Raki from the veracious eater. She tells hin to run away, while she'll take care of it. What does Raki do? Distract her from the fight by pulling on her cloak, which ends up with nearly both of them getting killed. So instead of following Clare's orders, he endagered his and her life. Then Galk has to come in to protect him, causing another life to be endangered because of his irrationality.

Spoiler for case 3, Clare's awakening:

*Clare is starting to awaken*

Clare: (thinking) Oh no. I shouldn't have used so much yoki in my condition. Now I can't stop the flow. It's no good. Can't turn back.
Raki: C-- Clare.
Clare: (orders) Stay Back!

*Puts Claymore against her throat*

Sid: Wha-- What-- What do you think you're doing?
Clare: If we use too much yoma power when we're weak ... It becomes unstopable.
Raki: Eh? Eh? Eh?
Clare: So while I still have a human consciousness I'm ending my life

*vains are visible on her face. Raki is a b out to rush to Clare*

Raki: No! Clare, wait!
Clare: (Orders) I told you to stay back!
Raki: What do you mean? What are you saying Clare?
Clare: This is goodbye Raki.

*Is about to take her own life, but loses control of her body, possibly has to force herself not to kill Raki as her body swings the sword near him*

Raki: C-- Clare ... What's--
Clare: Don't come near me!
Clare: Galk! He-- Help me...

*Galk gets into position to take Clare's head*

Raki: Galk! What are you doing! Don't!
Clare: Sorry ... I can't stop it. I'm turning into a yoma.

*Clare has a long monolog*

*Raki hugs Clare and gets in the way.*

*Clare panics*

Clare: Stop it! Get away! I can't control my body for much longer! You'll be killed! G-- Get away from me, Raki. Hurry,Before I lose control.

*Raki has a nice long monolog*

Raki: That's why if you die, I'm going with you.

*Clare starts to awaken, but something special about Raki stops her from fully awakening*

Ultimately, this turned out to be a good thing, but not due to Raki's action, but through dumb luck. Raki had no way of knowing that he is a no ordinary human that has the ability to pull Clare back from awakening. His actions were very irrational and self centered here. He chose his wanting to die with Clare if she had to die, over the lives of everyone in the City. He didn't listen to Clares Orders, and so endangered, himself, her, Galk, Sid, and the lives of everyone in that City, as Clare was about to awaken, Galk unable to stop her. He didn't respect Clare wishes.

But in each of those cases, I cringed as I read the manga, amazed at the sheer stupidity of the character, wanting to slap my forehead. Hollywood used to make female characters act in this irrational way. I hated it with them, and I hate it with Raki. XD

[yezhanquan]

Anyway, replying to post on Image thread: I'm not one of those "haters" who think that "RAKI MUST DIE!" I opt for something more subtle, and the sensei happily obliged, with more "Break/Corrupt the Cutie".

[Shiek927]

In this case, Raki physically grabs onto Clare in a dangerous situation, not only endangering himself, but endangering Clare. He has heard the situation of Claymores turning into yomas. He has lived in a village where a yoma was like a serial killer, slowly killing the people of the town, his whole family being some of its victims. Yet he is willing to let another such monster be spawned -- his rational being that Elena is Clare's friend. Furthermore, he disrespects a person's dying wishes, to want to die as a human. In the end, he caused Elena distress and prolonged her suffering.

*points to my previous post

In this case, Clare comes to rescue Raki from the veracious eater. She tells hin to run away, while she'll take care of it. What does Raki do? Distract her from the fight by pulling on her cloak, which ends up with nearly both of them getting killed. So instead of following Clare's orders, he endagered his and her life. Then Galk has to come in to protect him, causing another life to be endangered because of his irrationality.

*points to my previous post

He did what anyone would have done, to add on. If you call that stupidity, I can only imagine what you would have done in that scenario, because I would raise my eyebrows if you actually left and abandoned her

Ultimately, this turned out to be a good thing, but not due to Raki's action, but through dumb luck. Raki had no way of knowing that he is a no ordinary human that has the ability to pull Clare back from awakening. His actions were very irrational and self centered here. He chose his wanting to die with Clare if she had to die, over the lives of everyone in the City. He didn't listen to Clares Orders, and so endangered, himself, her, Galk, Sid, and the lives of everyone in that City, as Clare was about to awaken, Galk unable to stop her. He didn't respect Clare wishes.

What's self-centered about wanting to die with her? If was for her; do you understand what being self-centered even means?

He didn't endanger anyone, Claire wasn't going to awaken because she wanted Galk to kill her. Only difference was, was that Galk was going to end up killing one more.

I don't understand how anything changed and he suddenly became the reason for endangering everyone. Last I checked, it was still Claire for awakening in the first place, but if you want to put all the blame on Raki, be my guest

But in each of those cases, I cringed as I read the manga, amazed at the sheer stupidity of the character, wanting to slap my forehead. Hollywood used to make female characters act in this irrational way. I hated it with them, and I hate it with Raki. XD

Not everyone can be oh so logical like you Gangsta, or have precognition and know what all their actions will lead to before it happens.

Take Raki out and replace yourself in his situations, I'm curious to see how your actions would realistically be any different.

Anyway, replying to post on Image thread: I'm not one of those "haters" who think that "RAKI MUST DIE!" I opt for something more subtle, and the sensei happily obliged, with more "Break/Corrupt the Cutie".

I'm a little confused, but whatever floats your boat

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

*points to my previous post
*points to my previous post

Uh... you mean :P you make me spend all that time writing that up and that is how you answer it.
Especially when your previous post is a bout girl Raki, a totally unrelated subject.

He did what anyone would have done, to add on. If you call that stupidity, I can only imagine what you would have done in that scenario, because I would raise my eyebrows if you actually left and abandoned her

Don't tell me you think irrationally too shieky. I would've left, if were some super powered human, with special abilities like Clare, and me being there would only endanger her and cause me to get in her way.

What's self-centered about wanting to die with her? If was for her; do you understand what being self-centered even means?

What is self centered of him is choosing to die with her at the expense of sacrificing the lives of everybody else in the City.

He didn't endanger anyone, Claire wasn't going to awaken because she wanted Galk to kill her. Only difference was, was that Galk was going to end up killing one more.

Wrong, raki got in the way and Galk missed his chance in killing Clare, as the vortex of her aura would've stopped him. Clare would've awakened if Raki was an ordinary human.

I don't understand how anything changed and he suddenly became the reason for endangering everyone. Last I checked, it was still Claire for awakening in the first place, but if you want to put all the blame on Raki, be my guest

Clare told Galk to kill her; Raki got in the way and before Galk knew it, it was too late to carry out her wishes.

Not everyone can be oh so logical like you Gangsta, or have precognition and know what all their actions will lead to before it happens.

Attacking the arguer and not the argument, very smooth shieky.

Take Raki out and replace yourself in his situations, I'm curious to see how your actions would realistically be any different.

I would've behaved more rationally. I would've let Clare kill her friend, though I might not like. I wouldn't have grabbed her arm in Rabona and nearly got her killed by the Yoma. And I would've let Clare kill herself if she was awakening.

[HegemonKhan]

especially in the anime:

raki WAS/IS (or if you rather, symbolized) clare's humanity (including emotions) in human form.

if you wanna know how clare really felt or what her real emotions are/were in any given situation, just look at raki to find out !!!

if you seen afro samurai anime.... raki is like the imagined old guy (who never shuts up..I like the silent real afro much much better, lol. raki's crying ain't even close as annoying as the old guy...), except raki is real and not imagined by clare.
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but now in the manga raki is grown up, and has his own part-significance now. But, now he got captured...... he's like a damsel in distress cliche' now...but it's gender reversed....lol...

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HOWEVER,

why do so many think that raki will need help/rescue?

if those retrieval unit members are mere humans.....raki could easily kill them....

i could see raki, kill all of the Organization retrieval unit members, all on his own human power/ability (i'm not even addressing him awakening from the projectiles), unless those retrieval unit members aren't human.....

which could very well be the case, since they weren't afraid or intimidated by raki and his great size-strength for a human.

[Gangsta Spanksta]

That blanket statement is based on what?

[evil_kenshin]

Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta

I would've behaved more rationally. I would've let Clare kill her friend, though I might not like. I wouldn't have grabbed her arm in Rabona and nearly got her killed by the Yoma. And I would've let Clare kill herself if she was awakening.

I don't believe you, its easy enough to state that but in real life you wouldn't of. Most peoples reactions to someone trying to kill someone (who hasn't done anything wrong) is to stop the potential killer. Most people would also try and prevent something bad happening to someone they care for (e.g. Raki trying to stop Clare awakening)

[Blaat]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

I was slightly interested in his powerup, but now that the origins of that had been revealed, I'm left slightly disappointed.

Actually this still hasn't been revealed unless I missed something or the English translation isn't accurate.

[yezhanquan]

Well, I thought that his powerup was due to training. Now, it would seem that it was due to experimentation.

[evil_kenshin]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Well, I thought that his powerup was due to training. Now, it would seem that it was due to experimentation.

Its not being revealed yet, so its a bit to soon for you to say "boring".

[yezhanquan]

I did speculate that it was due to experimentation. If the reveal is that it was indeed due to his hard work, I'll give a clap or two. But, given the cynical world that is Claymore, Raki took the hand that was offered to him.

[evil_kenshin]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

I did speculate that it was due to experimentation. If the reveal is that it was indeed due to his hard work, I'll give a clap or two. But, given the cynical world that is Claymore, Raki took the hand that was offered to him.

Logically speaking his current strength would be due to training, on the other hand the powerup his about to recieve will be used to show the inside of the organization, the process of turning people into claymore etc.

The reason for this is it would be silly to go through the whole manga with no idea how exactly a claymore is made.

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Originally Posted by evil_kenshin

I don't believe you, its easy enough to state that but in real life you wouldn't of. Most peoples reactions to someone trying to kill someone (who hasn't done anything wrong) is to stop the potential killer. Most people would also try and prevent something bad happening to someone they care for (e.g. Raki trying to stop Clare awakening)

See now you are acting like you're a little slow, "Most people's reactions to someone trying to kill someone (who hasn't done anything wrong). Yeah, lets make Raki less irrational by changing the situation from what really happen. Here is another way to look at it. Change settings and worlds, and all the sudden Clare, Raki and Elena find themselves in the Aliens universe, where Elena has an Alien inside of her that is about to burst out of her chest. She asks Clare to kill her. Raki grabs onto Clare and tells her not to do; that Elena is her friend, etc, etc. But wait, back in the original universe it was exactly the same kind of situation, Elena was about to die anyway, and a monster that is a threat to all of humanity was about to be born. Yeah, you guys are trying to ignore all the facts here and turn the situation into something that it is not, all to try to defend Raki's irrational behavior that would have resulted in people dying if he got his way. So you guys would let Elena turn into a monster, because she was Clare's friends, and you would do so knowing that she will murder countless of human beings, even if that person plea was to kill her, put her out of her misery, because she doesn't want to become a monster and wants to die as a human. To me, it would be you who seems more cruel. And I think most people would've felt belt, become quite, and let Clare do as she was asked, instead of physically trying to stop her and begging her not to do it, even if they knew that if Clare doesn't do it, it would result in a disaster, a serial killer that will kill countless of humans.

And again, you are changing what happened in Clare's awakening, saying that Raki was trying to stop that from happening, when he instead clearly made the choice that he wanted to die with Clare, his interference almost resulting in a major disaster of an awakened being, a weapon of mass destruction, being born in the middle of a city.

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Also another trend here seems to try to make this an argument based on emotion, rather than logic, and emotional arguments usually end up losing.

[evil_kenshin]

Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta

See now you are acting like you're a little slow, "Most people's reactions to someone trying to kill someone (who hasn't done anything wrong). Yeah, lets make Raki less irrational by changing the situation from what really happen. Here is another way to look at it. Change settings and worlds, and all the sudden Clare, Raki and Elena find themselves in the Aliens universe, where Elena has an Alien inside of her that is about to burst out of her chest. She asks Clare to kill her. Raki grabs onto Clare and tells her not to do; that Elena is her friend, etc, etc. But wait, back in the original universe it was exactly the same kind of situation, Elena was about to die anyway, and a monster that is a threat to all of humanity was about to be born. Yeah, you guys are trying to ignore all the facts here and turn the situation into something that it is not, all to try to defend Raki's irrational behavior that would have resulted in people dying if he got his way. So you guys would let Elena turn into a monster, because she was Clare's friends, and you would do so knowing that she will murder countless of human beings, even if that person plea was to kill her, put her out of her misery, because she doesn't want to become a monster and wants to die as a human. To me, it would be you who seems more cruel. And I think most people would've felt belt, become quite, and let Clare do as she was asked, instead of physically trying to stop her and begging her not to do it, even if they knew that if Clare doesn't do it, it would result in a disaster, a serial killer that will kill countless of humans.

No its nothing to do with me being "slow" rather that you are falsly opinionated and state your opinon on what you would of done after the fact rather than during it.

Raki at that time had no idea claymores turn into monsters, so it was a moment of shock for him.

Maybe its cruel but thats how humanity is. How many people with a fatal illness wish to end their life only to have their family want them to stay around? How many people cover for family members who commit crimes?

You try to act all big and macho but your being unrealistic. A 10 year old would have no such understanding other than the person he cares for is about to kill her friend.

Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta

And again, you are changing what happened in Clare's awakening, saying that Raki was trying to stop that from happening, when he instead clearly made the choice that he wanted to die with Clare, his interference almost resulting in a major disaster of an awakened being, a weapon of mass destruction, being born in the middle of a city.

Again a 10 year old has no understanding of that, the sole person his close to is about to "die" so he was happy to die with her.


Please try and learn about perspective, do you honestly believe the 10 year old you would have the ability to make decisions like that? in all honesty you would chose emotion over logic please be realistic.

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by evil_kenshin

Logically speaking his current strength would be due to training, on the other hand the powerup his about to recieve will be used to show the inside of the organization, the process of turning people into claymore etc.

The reason for this is it would be silly to go through the whole manga with no idea how exactly a claymore is made.

Unless I misread, the MIB's words do seem to imply that during the 7 year interval, he was experimented upon. Maybe, he managed to break free, but the Org caught up with him.

[evil_kenshin]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Unless I misread, the MIB's words do seem to imply that during the 7 year interval, he was experimented upon. Maybe, he managed to break free, but the Org caught up with him.

no all the org member says is "I hope its something more than willpower"

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by evil_kenshin

no all the org member says is "I hope its something more than willpower"

Then the later laugh, followed by "When research materials are left to their own devices, they have a way of bringing about interesting results on occasion." is directed at ?

I see it as a doctor who just caught a lab rat which his colleague had experimented on.

[evil_kenshin]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Then the later laugh, followed by "When research materials are left to their own devices, they have a way of bringing about interesting results on occasion." is directed at ?

Could mean anything, he didn't specifically recognise Raki or act surprised to see him (outside the fact he was alive).

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by evil_kenshin

Could mean anything, he didn't specifically recognise Raki or act surprised to see him (outside the fact he was alive).

I added that a little later. But, I would understand if a doctor do not recognise a rat which he worked on. It could also be the other colleagues who did the work, and he read the report.