US Elections 2012 Part I: The Primaries/Caucus

[Demongod86]

Ehhh...if you need material with which to bash republican candidates, Jon Stewart will find you an endless cachet.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

Ehhh...if you need material with which to bash republican candidates, Jon Stewart will find you an endless cachet.

That's some of the tragedy, Jon doesn't have to go looking, it falls in his lap and he doesn't have to exaggerate or parody at all.

Its like Tina Fey and Sarah Palin -- all Tina had to do was quote her.

[Demongod86]

Originally Posted by Vexx

That's some of the tragedy, Jon doesn't have to go looking, it falls in his lap and he doesn't have to exaggerate or parody at all.

Its like Tina Fey and Sarah Palin -- all Tina had to do was quote her.

It might be a tragedy if it wasn't so hilarious!

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

Ehhh...if you need material with which to bash republican candidates, Jon Stewart will find you an endless cachet.

it is not about "bashing" republicans. it is gutting them hanging then hang them with their intestines. it is about twisting someones arm till they cry then making them a offer they can't refuse.

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by Vexx

That's some of the tragedy, Jon doesn't have to go looking, it falls in his lap and he doesn't have to exaggerate or parody at all.

Its like Tina Fey and Sarah Palin -- all Tina had to do was quote her.

Usualy I would say than it make it much funnier but it's almost becoming sad.
To think than one of them might end up to the White House...

[Ithekro]

Remember some people only act stupid so that their voting base thinks they are one of them (rather that the politician sound like they are talking down to the electorate). Once they are in office they come off quite different when the cameras are not on them.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Remember some people only act stupid so that their voting base thinks they are one of them (rather that the politician sound like they are talking down to the electorate). Once they are in office they come off quite different when the cameras are not on them.

It doesn't actually matter in that case does it? If the end result is either a genuinely stupid politician or a devious politician pretending to be stupid, the government is screwed either way.

To even WANT stupid people in office is suicidal. And yet, that's what I see. People who really think they can benefit from a dysfunctional government.

And now, America HAS a dysfunctional government. Just as they always wanted.

[Ithekro]

At this point it is usually just devious or stupid being manipulated by devious, that we get.

Way too many lawyers and business men in politics. Sure they are suppose to uphold the laws of the land, but they keep tinking with what we have by passing new ones, rather than fixing old ones....or just enforcing old ones in some cases. They just keep passing laws and more laws. Or passing higher pay for themselves...they like doing that too.

Smart people (who aren't in the practise of law) don't go into politics anymore it seems. Or else they don't get far.

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Smart people (who aren't in the practise of law) don't go into politics anymore it seems. Or else they don't get far.

Most of them don't have the time to go on politic.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

At this point it is usually just devious or stupid being manipulated by devious, that we get.

Way too many lawyers and business men in politics. Sure they are suppose to uphold the laws of the land, but they keep tinking with what we have by passing new ones, rather than fixing old ones....or just enforcing old ones in some cases. They just keep passing laws and more laws. Or passing higher pay for themselves...they like doing that too.

Smart people (who aren't in the practise of law) don't go into politics anymore it seems. Or else they don't get far.

Worst.. is that they make decisions on highly technical subjects with no clue at all about the matter. Or if they *are* some technically educated type (e.g. doctor) they stopped actually practicing long ago and just run a business that does that sort of thing (throwing them back into the "how much money does this make me and my buddies?" pit rather than the "whats the best way for the country in this matter?").

[Ithekro]

And politics usually makes one less money (aside from lobbying money and they like) because the pay check is not as large as many businesses or high tech jobs. And if you fail in an election your in theory becomes a bit less. You certainly don't become President to get rich, as you will only have to job for a maximum of eight years...and be forced to have Secret Service around you for the rest of your life.

[Xellos-_^]

it is not the paycheck, it is the Premium health Insurance and Pension. People complaining about Cadillac health insurance package and generous pension plans for gov't worker need to start looking at congress.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

And politics usually makes one less money (aside from lobbying money and they like) because the pay check is not as large as many businesses or high tech jobs. And if you fail in an election your in theory becomes a bit less. You certainly don't become President to get rich, as you will only have to job for a maximum of eight years...and be forced to have Secret Service around you for the rest of your life.

The wealth comes from other sources than the immediate paycheck (ref: see revolving door lobby industry, good times for the corporations a politician "has" (temporarily shelved while they're in office), etc.)

[synaesthetic]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Since who we elect directly impacts how we deal with them, putting this discussion on the 'wireless telco' duopoly issues here (anti-competitive, shady billing, customer lock-in, illusory segmentation of services, and enormous markups).

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/26/op...ss-market.html

Someone needs to break Ma Bell up (again) and this time pass some laws that ensure it can't reassemble itself like some kind of patchwork anti-competitive zombie. Break Verizon up while they're at it, too... these two companies (especially if AT&T is allowed to eat T-Mobile) are rapidly approaching "too big to fail" territory...

Good news on that front though, the Sprint and C-Spire lawsuits against AT&T were given the green light. So it's not just the Department of Justice suing them now. We might actually see our government function properly for once.

The situation is bad on the other side, though. Verizon has been breaking the law since their first LTE handset was released, and nobody seems to know or care. For those who are interested, the story is below:

http://www.xda-developers.com/androi...e-bootloaders/

[ganbaru]

Ron Paul declared winner of Illinois Republican straw poll
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7A507M20111106

Ron Paul was declared the winner on Saturday of a weeklong Republican presidential straw poll in Democratic President Barack Obama's home state of Illinois.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

At this point it is usually just devious or stupid being manipulated by devious, that we get.

[...]

Smart people (who aren't in the practise of law) don't go into politics anymore it seems. Or else they don't get far.

It kind of depends on what you regard as smart. A high intelligence is a nice bonus but not exactly the most important asset for a politician. People skills or social intelligence matter more imo. Especially now in a time where communication with the voter happens through short exposure in a fragmented mass media.

I'm convinced the skill set of a used car salesman is probably the most usefull for politicians. It's about finding out what the voter wants to hear, charm them, build some trust and then sell them something not quite working as advertised. Those same skills are usefull in fundraising. The other factor for succes is to be able to network and build alliances effectively. You can't make it to the top alone. It's not surprising that business and law are the dominant backgrounds in politics, as professional succes in these areas require the same skills you need for politics.

People with a background in fields like the sciences or medicine are trained to be independent specialists, able to work on their own or in small teams. People need more raw intelligence to make it to the top in these fields but they are far less experienced playing the political game then those who have spend most of their professional life honing their skills. In essence the current situation favours individuals who excel at selling themselves but are unlikely to be good at doing much else.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Ron Paul declared winner of Illinois Republican straw poll
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7A507M20111106

Hay! Now Ron Paul has won the straw poll, let's go horsing around!

(Double pun unintended)

Now this one, is very, very interesting......

Sachs versus Ferguson on Occupy Wall Street

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by Bri

It kind of depends on what you regard as smart. A high intelligence is a nice bonus but not exactly the most important asset for a politician. People skills or social intelligence matter more imo. Especially now in a time where communication with the voter happens through short exposure in a fragmented mass media.

I'm convinced the skill set of a used car salesman is probably the most usefull for politicians. It's about finding out what the voter wants to hear, charm them, build some trust and then sell them something not quite working as advertised. Those same skills are usefull in fundraising. The other factor for succes is to be able to network and build alliances effectively. You can't make it to the top alone. It's not surprising that business and law are the dominant backgrounds in politics, as professional succes in these areas require the same skills you need for politics.

People with a background in fields like the sciences or medicine are trained to be independent specialists, able to work on their own or in small teams. People need more raw intelligence to make it to the top in these fields but they are far less experienced playing the political game then those who have spend most of their professional life honing their skills. In essence the current situation favours individuals who excel at selling themselves but are unlikely to be good at doing much else.

Depends what you consider the actual duty of a politician is. Is it to get elected, or to be a good statesman? The car salesman tack is unavoidable in modern politics and is thus pretty much necessary if you even want a shot. But is it really a relevant skill in BEING a politician, or does it offer no aid beyond the election?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Bri

I'm convinced the skill set of a used car salesman is probably the most usefull for politicians. It's about finding out what the voter wants to hear, charm them, build some trust and then sell them something not quite working as advertised. Those same skills are usefull in fundraising. The other factor for succes is to be able to network and build alliances effectively. You can't make it to the top alone. It's not surprising that business and law are the dominant backgrounds in politics, as professional succes in these areas require the same skills you need for politics.

The duty of a used car salesman is to gain maximum profit for himself at any cost to the detriment of everyone else. This is the best way to get elected and then become massively rich by emptying the coffers. But that isn't going to help the country.

The goal of elections is to find the best man for the job. The skills of a used car salesman is used in this case to break the system; the man is the worst person for the job, but he tricks the population into getting him elected anyway. Thus democracy is destroyed.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Depends what you consider the actual duty of a politician is. Is it to get elected, or to be a good statesman?

I don't know, which one is he rewarded for?