Dating

[Miko Miko]

I guess you guys are right. I won't see him until wednesday but I am going to tell him then.

Thanks for your advice and I guess I was being kind of selfish and a bad friend when you put it like that.

[0utf0xZer0]

I need to send one of my cosplay models from the convention an e-mail of her photos in the next few days.

Now, what makes this a bit awkward is that I had actually been thinking of inviting her for dinner on the second night of the con, but decided against it when I realized she was going to be meeting the group she came with for dinner. I didn't see her around on day three.

At least one person I've asked recommended straight asking her out in the follow up e-mail. I personally wonder if this is a little overly direct - yes, I did intend to ask her out at the con, but con dining tends to be rather informal. What I'm wondering is what I should tell her, and whether I should bring this up in the initial e-mail of her photos or in a subsequent e-mail.

(Also, if it makes any difference, I tried (and failed) to help her find another cosplayer playing her character on a couple occassions on day two. Unfortunately this also meant our last couple run ins (after we realized the cosplayer wasn't around) at the con were rather awkward since we'd kind of gotten used to at least saying whether we'd found the other cosplayer yet.)

[Narona]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

At least one person I've asked recommended straight asking her out in the follow up e-mail. I personally wonder if this is a little overly direct - yes, I did intend to ask her out at the con, but con dining tends to be rather informal. What I'm wondering is what I should tell her, and whether I should bring this up in the initial e-mail of her photos or in a subsequent e-mail.

Email is the only solution so far, or will you have an opportunity to ask her out IRL?

(Also, if it makes any difference, I tried (and failed) to help her find another cosplayer playing her character on a couple occassions on day two. Unfortunately this also meant our last couple run ins (after we realized the cosplayer wasn't around) at the con were rather awkward since we'd kind of gotten used to at least saying whether we'd found the other cosplayer yet.)

What I wonder is, have you helped her because you planned/calculated that it could be seen as a plus to ask her out, or did you do it out of kindness as if it was any other of your friends?

I can't talk for all the girls, and one might say that I don't act like most girls But anyways, what some girls like is men who show selfless kindness. So the question would rather be, if you're a natural nice guy, "does it make a difference to be a nice guy?", as a reply, I will say that it depends on her tastes But many girls like the nice/kind side of some men.

[Kakashi]

Originally Posted by Narona

I can't talk for all the girls, and one might say that I don't act like most girls But anyways, what some girls like is men who show selfless kindness. So the question would rather be, if you're a natural nice guy, "does it make a difference to be a nice guy?", as a reply, I will say that it depends on her tastes But many girls like the nice/kind side of some men.

According to that Ladder Theory (my mind was blown), it pays to lay some foundations in the "potential boyfriend" category before buttering her up with kindness.

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

What I'm wondering is what I should tell her, and whether I should bring this up in the initial e-mail of her photos or in a subsequent e-mail.

I'd tell her in a subsequent e-mail, afterall you don't want her to get the wrong idea. As for what you should tell her...well we don't know enough about her...but I guess anything will be fine, as long as you steer clear of "I like your ass in that bunnygirl outfit, would you sip some tea for me in my capsule corp penthouse?"

[whitepearl]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

(Also, if it makes any difference, I tried (and failed) to help her find another cosplayer playing her character on a couple occassions on day two. Unfortunately this also meant our last couple run ins (after we realized the cosplayer wasn't around) at the con were rather awkward since we'd kind of gotten used to at least saying whether we'd found the other cosplayer yet.)

I'm curious if the other girl regards you as being just a friend. Trying to ask her out via e-mail is something that will catch her offguard and will probably make things even more awkward between you two than they already are.

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by Narona

I can't talk for all the girls, and one might say that I don't act like most girls But anyways, what some girls like is men who show selfless kindness. So the question would rather be, if you're a natural nice guy, "does it make a difference to be a nice guy?", as a reply, I will say that it depends on her tastes But many girls like the nice/kind side of some men.

If you don't act like most girls, you might actually know what you want and stated what you really like a guy to be. I believe you do.

Originally Posted by whitepearl

I'm curious if the other girl regards you as being just a friend. Trying to ask her out via e-mail is something that will catch her offguard and will probably make things even more awkward between you two than they already are.

If we always knew for sure, so that we did not need to ask, wouldn't that make life so much easier? Or just cruel? ^^'

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Jinto

If you don't act like most girls, you might actually know what you want and stated what you really like a guy to be. I believe you do.
[/SIZE]

While it's true that I prefer people who show real kindness (male or female, i don't talk about romance only), actually I am not the only girl around me to think like that. For example, one of my friends is actually married to a guy like that. Not that this is his sol quality, but he's really a nice person.

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by Narona

Email is the only solution so far, or will you have an opportunity to ask her out IRL?

I only have her e-mail.

Originally Posted by Narona

What I wonder is, have you helped her because you planned/calculated that it could be seen as a plus to ask her out, or did you do it out of kindness as if it was any other of your friends?

A bit of both. I'm normally quite helpful - even to people I don't know on occassion - and I didn't decide to invite her out for dinner until after I had helped her. However, I strongly suspect that the reason I helped search for so long was because I thought she was cute.

I can't say whether or not she's the type who likes nice guys, but the cosplay she choose would tend to suggest she might.

Originally Posted by Kakashi

I'd tell her in a subsequent e-mail, afterall you don't want her to get the wrong idea. As for what you should tell her...well we don't know enough about her...but I guess anything will be fine, as long as you steer clear of "I like your ass in that bunnygirl outfit, would you sip some tea for me in my capsule corp penthouse?"

Given the semi-conservative skirt-length on the costume, I think I'd avoid any comments like that.

The ladder theory thing is interesting but I don't think I'd consider it a universal truth.

Originally Posted by whitepearl

I'm curious if the other girl regards you as being just a friend. Trying to ask her out via e-mail is something that will catch her offguard and will probably make things even more awkward between you two than they already are.

Maybe I didn't make this clear in the first post, but this is a girl I meet at the convention this year. It's kind of hard to tell what she thinks about me.

[Throne Invader]

@0utf0xzer0

I think you should ask her out through a different email but I think it's better if you personally ask her instead. You should be prepared to be rejected and perhaps feel slightly embarrassed but tell yourself it's ok because you tried. There would be higher chances of her saying yes if you talk with her and got to know a bit of her personal life. Good Luck with that

Concerning the "ladder theory" and nice guys, well I don't believe it and I seriously don't care about their "research." I appreciate nice guys and I don't think any guy should go out of their way to change their image just because some theory says that bad boys get all the girls. I know a lot of shy and meek guys who have very pretty girlfriends.

[User91411]

To me, dating means 'take a girl out a few times and hopefully you'll get some pussy by the end of it all'.

I'm so negative.

PS: It was meant as a cynical jab at bad boy attitudes.

[Shinoto]

Originally Posted by Witchburn

Concerning the "ladder theory" and nice guys, well I don't believe it and I seriously don't care about their "research." I appreciate nice guys and I don't think any guy should go out of their way to change their image just because some theory says that bad boys get all the girls. I know a lot of shy and meek guys who have very pretty girlfriends.

I don't understand this generalization on how they have to mean bad boys? Really now, All they mean is don't be a tool with no confidence(Just unflinching coincidence its a quality many bad boys share lol). Its completely right in that regard. And being personally honest here, I have never found a shy/meek lad attractive nor have seen one with an interesting lady. They reek of boredom.

I'll say this, Don't ask her out in an email. An Email is impersonal, might as well be saying "I'm desperate". If it is the only option, you should but really its a truly atrocious attempt at attracting someone
To add, Never pin your hopes on a single person. I'd ask her out the next time you see her(Cup of Tea! of course, all gents do )but I wouldn't focus on her. Keep looking and don't worry about her till you see her again. No reason to focus on the sushi in an all you can eat seafood bar.

And finally, tell me what she cosplays. I wish to make generalizations on what type of guys she likes, what's her personality, and other such preemptive qualities for someone who I shall never meet

[npcomplete]

Originally Posted by Shinoto

And being personally honest here, I have never found a shy/meek lad attractive nor have seen one with an interesting lady. They reek of boredom.

...but.. the meek shall inherit the earth, right?

[Irenicus]

I agree with everyone else pretty much. An e-mail is ridiculously impersonal for something as, well, personal, as asking someone out. Use it to establish contact if you wish, then ask her out.

Originally Posted by Shinoto

I'll say this, Don't ask her out in an email. An Email is impersonal, might as well be saying "I'm desperate". If it is the only option, you should but really its a truly atrocious attempt at attracting someone
To add, Never pin your hopes on a single person. I'd ask her out the next time you see her(Cup of Tea! of course, all gents do )but I wouldn't focus on her. Keep looking and don't worry about her till you see her again. No reason to focus on the sushi in an all you can eat seafood bar.

Isn't that...kinda mean? I mean, surely there is more to a relationship than "The Game" and more to a person than being a fish in the sea? If he really likes her then why should he actively look at anyone else? Am I just being an idiotic hopeless romantic here?

Questions, questions.

Originally Posted by npcomplete

...but.. the meek shall inherit the earth, right?

Not if it's about passing down your genes.

Mind, the way I see it, what girls see as confidence, guys usually suspect asshole-ery. If a guy is *hopelessly* in love, in that first, glorious, all-consuming stage of infatuation, of course he's all weak in front of her! He wants to be as nice as he could ever be (according to the Ladder Theory he's going the wrong way XD); he wants to do everything to make her happy; he wants to be perfect, to do everything right. So if some guy can just flirt a girl up to heaven without even blinking, we usually see him as just wanting her pussy rather than being a confident man, because being *in love* tends to (temporarily) destroy all reason, sense, and natural coolness in men, and make them (temporarily) hopelessly lame.

So the miscommunication goes.

[Throne Invader]

Originally Posted by Shinoto

I don't understand this generalization on how they have to mean bad boys? Really now, All they mean is don't be a tool with no confidence(Just unflinching coincidence its a quality many bad boys share lol). Its completely right in that regard. And being personally honest here, I have never found a shy/meek lad attractive nor have seen one with an interesting lady. They reek of boredom.

I'll say this, Don't ask her out in an email. An Email is impersonal, might as well be saying "I'm desperate". If it is the only option, you should but really its a truly atrocious attempt at attracting someone
To add, Never pin your hopes on a single person. I'd ask her out the next time you see her(Cup of Tea! of course, all gents do )but I wouldn't focus on her. Keep looking and don't worry about her till you see her again. No reason to focus on the sushi in an all you can eat seafood bar.

And finally, tell me what she cosplays. I wish to make generalizations on what type of guys she likes, what's her personality, and other such preemptive qualities for someone who I shall never meet

When it comes to the ladder theory I'm pretty sure we see many exceptions around us. Then again, there are different levels of shyness I guess. There are people who are seemingly shy but once you get to know them, they're actually quite lively and then there are people who really avoid people Some nice guys may not finish first but they won't always finish last.

Your advice to outfoxzero is funny though. Why not bother asking him what he's looking for first?

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Bolton

To me, dating means 'take a girl out a few times and hopefully you'll get some pussy by the end of it all'.

I'm so negative.

PS: It was meant as a cynical jab at bad boy attitudes.

Haha, well, that's why some girls who want a long term relationship state that they want to wait for marriage before any sexual intercourses. Because boys who go as far as marrying a girl just to "get her pussy" are quite rare (thanksfully) They can "accept" what she wants at first and try to change her mind, but if they fail, they usually just just ditch the girl.

That way you can sort out those who are serious (given your own standarts), and those who are not

Originally Posted by Shinoto

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"]I don't understand this generalization on how they have to mean bad boys? Really now, All they mean is don't be a tool with no confidence(Just unflinching coincidence its a quality many bad boys share lol). Its completely right in that regard. And being personally honest here, I have never found a shy/meek lad attractive nor have seen one with an interesting lady. They reek of boredom.

And since when all the "nice/kind guys" are shy/meek lad? Generalization anyone? You would be surprised by some nice guys I know, who can beat the hell out of the "bad boys" in a fight if, for example, one of them annoys their GF/wife

Anyway, where you live in might be true, but here where I live, they are girls, even some beautiful ladies, who date nice/kind guys, and even some of those who are the shy type.

But anyway, you don't have to be or act like a bad boy to show some masculanity and confidence. This is mostly the males chauvinist who act like that because they don't understand it .

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

I only have her e-mail.

I still think that asking her out IRL would be the best solution.

As an advice, I would say that men should not believe that they have to disguise their intentions. I am a girl who talk to many girls, and one of the recurrent topics is that men should be more sincere Many girls can feel it when a guy does things because he ultimately wants to ask the girl out, so no need to beat around the bush.

I personally prefer a man who tries to ask me out instead of acting nice with me while waiting a supposed "best time" to ask me out. Not that I am fond about breaking hearts, but even if it happens that i am not interested and so reject somebody, I respect those who are honest with me.

Anyway, if you currently only have her email. It can become difficult. Does she live far from you? Anyways, as AmoreDoll said, just try to ask her out. Write an email with your sincere feelings, and keep in mind that being rejected could happen. But even so, you would have tried, so less regrets and no "if I asked her out what would she have said".

I know you said that you were the "shy" type, but be courageous, you might be surprised by the result

A bit of both. I'm normally quite helpful - even to people I don't know on occassion - and I didn't decide to invite her out for dinner until after I had helped her. However, I strongly suspect that the reason I helped search for so long was because I thought she was cute.

No worries~~

I used a bad wording, because I might have implied that all the people who do it on purpose are not serious, but it would be a false statement. While there are boys and girls who show behaviors that I personally dislike, I don't think there's something wrong in helping a person you really like.


@Mystique, If you ever read this, Mystique, maybe you could give interesting and possiby different advices than mine to him. You're quite helpful in general on this topic

[Kakashi]

Originally Posted by Irenicus

Mind, the way I see it, what girls see as confidence, guys usually suspect asshole-ery. If a guy is *hopelessly* in love, in that first, glorious, all-consuming stage of infatuation, of course he's all weak in front of her! He wants to be as nice as he could ever be (according to the Ladder Theory he's going the wrong way XD); he wants to do everything to make her happy; he wants to be perfect, to do everything right. So if some guy can just flirt a girl up to heaven without even blinking, we usually see him as just wanting her pussy rather than being a confident man, because being *in love* tends to (temporarily) destroy all reason, sense, and natural coolness in men, and make them (temporarily) hopelessly lame.

So the miscommunication goes.

That's true, can't help but say this was brilliantly put.

But maybe a bit idealistic? I hope it isn't, however there's a risk inherent in allowing yourself to fall head-over-heels. It can be make you very vulnerable. Coming from someone who tends to fall in love quite quickly and shows it, it was pretty painful for me to see a girl I was crazy over shun me. Who should you be angry at? Yourself for presuming too much too fast? Her for not feeling the same way? It's difficult to restrain oneself from doing the latter, but you have to. In the end maybe it's best to let the relationship develop before going crazy for her.

And, well, it could also be that some guys really aren't hopelessly in love from the go.

[Jazzrat]

Bad boys are for flings, nice boys are for long term relationships.
So... put on the whichever personality suitable for your motive

Though generalizations are ... generalizations. So the best advice i could give you is read her body language, see what kinda girl she is like before you move in for the "kill".

Casual but with some sexual tension approach is what i like to adopt most of the time until i figure out the next step.

[0utf0xZer0]

I'll be leaving replying to most of these until later since I have work soon, but I want to float an idea.

One of my anime clubs is doing a post convention meet on the 28th. Since we'll have an LCD projector at the meet and I'm one of the more experienced photographers in the group, I'll probably be doing a brief presentation of my photos, some with commentary.

As I only have her e-mail, I'm thinking this might be a good chance to get in touch with her again without making too personal a request over e-mail. The downsides, of course, would be that I don't know if she'd actually be able to make it. In particular, I'm worried about hints I got that she's from a part of the city that has rather poor transit connections to the location we'd be using.

Edit: and yes, I have shortlisted two of her photos for the presentation I'd like to make. They turned out really well

[zebra]

@0utf0xZer0,

I agree mostly with the posts above. An email is pretty impersonal, and if I were in her shoes and wouldn't have been hoping for an invitation from you, I'd decline.
There is no way to have any impact on her in an email so her answer depends on what she already thinks of you. It's hard to tell, since I doubt she showed any clear signs (at least some you'd notice ).

As you are already implying - to keep the contact is the best way. Asking her about the next convention / about her photos is at least a topic ... and from her answer you might be able tell if she want to keep the contact or not.
Since it's plausible she has one I'd suggest to ask her if she'd give you her instant messaging adress. You don't need to be that direct from the start (might scare her away if she hasn't already a thing for you) and just tell her you'd enjoyed the time with her / were happy to have met her / something along these lines .. and would like to chat with her somewhat. Or you just as for her instant messenger adress without big explanation ... since too much is already obvious again.

At least - by asking her things / asking for further contact, you see if she's interested to keep in touch with you. When she's happy to talk to you, you might have a chance. If she reacts positively give it a a shot and ask her out (even so I have no idea how close you two live to each other).

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by Narona

@Mystique, If you ever read this, Mystique, maybe you could give interesting and possibly different advices than mine to him. You're quite helpful in general on this topic

*amused*
I dunno, I've seen fence sitting on this thread for the last few days and the rest of you guys here seem to be doing plenty fine for 0utf0xZer0.

I'll say this much, Fome has definitely opened a new can of worms with the "ladder theory" thing.
It got me reading for a little over 1hr (so far) on all related relationship psychology surrounding it from the wiki link and that's only scratching the tip of the surface.
(By shrink terms, I discovered that I'm a "Misogynist Intellectual Whore", yeah go me!) xD
It simply holds some universal basic truths but naturally it's not the be all and end all, it's just information to keep note of when a guy does approach a girl/woman.

At present, Life bitch that she is, is currently kicking my ass, so no time to sit and write for up to 1hr like I usually do
But I will re read his dilemma and what people have said, though it seems he has enough to get going for his presentation and re meeting her.
Btw, facebook her if you have an account.
Less personal than IM, more personal than email, lots of ways to interact with her (wall, pm, comment on status, photos etc)

Can be seen as 'business like' in relation to your presentation but can also communicate more, offering more chance for the occasional personal questions and topics