|
View Poll Results: Madoka Magica - Episode 4 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 48 | 36.36% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 46 | 34.85% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 28 | 21.21% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 6 | 4.55% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 2 | 1.52% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 1 | 0.76% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 1 | 0.76% | |
Voters: 132. You may not vote on this poll |
|
Thread Tools |
2011-01-28, 13:54 | Link #121 | |
Banned
|
Quote:
As I said previously, you can't infer something that wasn't stated. In actuality, wishing Mami back would work for Madoka. It would alleviate her guilt over not becoming a magical girl earlier, and would be able to then protect Mami by fighting by her side from then on, helping people. My theory is just as valid as any stated here. |
|
2011-01-28, 13:59 | Link #122 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
|
WOW. Awesome episode it deserves a 10. But man Kyubey was so damn bad or good. I can't tell much. He just pops up when Sayaka needed him most. Like he already knew what will happen.
Then another mahou shoujo shows up to set more trouble. I really can't view this anime as a mahou shoujo show. It doesn't show your conventional magical girl.
__________________
|
2011-01-28, 14:26 | Link #123 | |
Lost in my dreams...
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 37
|
Quote:
Her overriding emotion is not wanting to be a magical girl, not bringing back Mami to life. The later would require the former, and that's a step she isn't ready to take. People don't actively seek out things to make themselves more miserable, and she is feeling miserable enough without a vocal confirmation of "Yes, you could bring her back, if only you had the courage to sign on the dotted line over here ...". Why would she want to hear that ? Like Kanon says, not asking said question is a way to feel slightly less miserable, because becoming a magical girl is out of the question at the time for Madoka. We don't need everything blatantly spelled out, the show's writing is a bit better than that thus far. If anything, i would say asking said question would go against the very thing this episode was establishing with Madoka - her fear of being a magical girl.
__________________
|
|
2011-01-28, 14:40 | Link #124 | |
Banned
|
Quote:
You can just pretend to see things that might not be there. That's called: "jumping to a conclusion" and I trust I don't need to tell you why that's bad. As I said, my interpretation is just as valid. I'll also redirect you once more to The Neverending Story 2 and 3. Edit: I'll take this reasoning farther: If Madoka can't make the choice to revive Mami and be a magical girl, then she's not qualified to be the great magical girl everyone here thinks she is. Hell, Sayaka is more qualified to be a magical girl, then, taking up the mantle to protect other people, using her wish to help someone at the same time, with the full knowledge of what's at stake. Sayaka > Madoka, if your reasoning holds true. |
|
2011-01-28, 14:44 | Link #125 |
Lost in my dreams...
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 37
|
And that's where we are going to disagree, i believe the episode showed things clearly enough to deduct why Madoka didn't ask that question. Not everything needs to be "said and shown" to infer the meaning behind it.
__________________
|
2011-01-28, 14:59 | Link #126 | |
Banned
|
Quote:
The danger with that line of thought, is that you could be shown to be wrong. |
|
2011-01-28, 15:17 | Link #127 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
|
Quote:
The very thought that it would be the the task or even the duty of magical girls to go around reviving people is absurd. To offer an analogy: You meet someone who happens to be a heroin addict. You spend time together and become close friends. And then you find out that your friend is about to die - unless you become a heroin addict yourself. So, what now? Will you do it? Do you have the obligation to ruin your own life for the sake of someone else? Even if you know that it will cause tremendous hardship and will eventually kill you, most likely? There is no such obligation, like you make it sound. Quote:
Quote:
Madoka's ideals are much more pure, by comparison. Her wish to help people, to protect them from harm, is genuinely selfless in nature. She couldn't even come up with a wish for herself in ep3 - she merely wanted to be useful to people. In ep4 she even courageously did that without being a MG in the first place, when she interfered with the ritualized suicide. You do see the difference between Sayaka and Mami, right? My theory is that the whole overarching theme of the show will be that Madoka's ideals are what really makes MGs powerful, and that the Sayaka type does exactly what Homura described with some scorn: In the end, they're not fighting for what's "good", they're fighting for themselves and their own wishes. I expect this to be why Sayaka is going to bite the bucket and Madoka is eventually going to make the difference. |
|||
2011-01-28, 15:28 | Link #128 | |||
Banned
|
Quote:
Also, I never said potential MG's should go around reviving anyone... only that in this case, it's blatantly obvious that the idea of using a wish to revive someone is something that should be brought up, even if only as a thought. Even if Madoka only thinks, "What if... what if with my wish I could... Mami..." and then proceeds to hug herself into a ball, being too afraid to continue it. It would at least show it has crossed her mind. That's all I ask. Quote:
Quote:
So you have Sayaka making a wish to make herself feel better. And you have Madoka making a wish to make herself feel better. Both technically "selfish" and thus, what's the difference? How is Madoka supposed to be any better? If Sayaka had made the wish to have Kamijou like her, that would have been selfish. Instead, she wished that his hand would be healed so that he could play again. Perhaps Kamijou simply decides to go off and play, thus leaving Sayaka alone. She'd be sad, but she'd still say, "I don't regret it" because she made Kamijou happy. |
|||
2011-01-28, 15:35 | Link #129 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Quote:
EDIT: some of Madoka's lines about her wish: "I'm slow and there isn't really anything good about me. So if I could be cool and wonderful like Mami, what would make me happy" "If even I can help people and be proud of that that's the best wish I could have" Ultimately, it's clear Madoka's wish comes from an inferiority complex. Hence why the prospect of being someone who can help others excited her so much.
__________________
|
|
2011-01-28, 15:49 | Link #130 |
Human
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 37
|
While I suppose it's a bit irrelevant at this point since it's not coming up in the show yet, I get the impression that wishing Mami back to life would be impossible because Mami's own wish was for her to live. Since she broke her contract by dying, her wish vanishes too, which means she has an "unwish" to be dead. Thus, wishing her back to life would be mutually exclusive with the terms of her agreement.
Narratively the point of this would be twofold. First, give a reason to keep the mentor character dead. Secondly, and more importantly, to not show us the consequences of a MG failing to protect their wish quite so early. Thus, it'll be more dramatic when Sayaka dies (or even simply loses, not sure how that works) and something horrible happens to Kamijo as a consequence. Which further serves to explain why all the other MGs (represented by Kyoko) are so desperate and ruthless to keep fighting. |
2011-01-28, 15:55 | Link #131 | ||||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
|
Please don't get this wrong, but I have the feeling that you won't enjoy the show very much. You seem to completely ignore the myriads of warning signs, and I'm not sure if you're rather willfully ignoring them or just are unable to spot them... *shrugs helplessly*
Quote:
I have the feeling that you're thinking in the world of Nanoha, but this world doesn't belong here. She's not going to be a soldier (who fights alongside comrades against others). It's clear that being a MG is a lonely, isolating experience. Quote:
Anyway, you are completely underestimating the impact of taking the plunge. This is not "I enlist to the Nanoha Marines", this is "I'm willingly screwing up me and my life because I feel that this is what I'm destined to do". Quote:
Quote:
Sorry, I honestly feel you're trying hard to make this anime fit into some preconceived ideas from other Mahou Shoujo shows, while ignoring tons of warnings. That's not going to be very pleasant to watch... |
||||
2011-01-28, 15:57 | Link #132 | |
Banned
|
Quote:
|
|
2011-01-28, 16:05 | Link #133 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
|
Quote:
Quote:
Madoka does NOT intend to do anything for her own gain - unless you feel that giving herself the confidence that she CAN be useful to others is already selfish. If you apply such a narrow standard, then you're right: Then it's nearly impossible to find a truly altruistic person. I guess we'll have to wait and see who's right. My prediction is that this differentation in motive is going to be a very fundamental plot point - THE fundamental plot point of the entire show in fact. |
||
2011-01-28, 16:08 | Link #134 |
One-Eyed Dragon
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NJ, USA
|
So Mami not revived is no big deal, but i would have thought that maybe Sayaka or Madoka would have asked is they can revive someone with their wish.
So i think Sayaka rushed her wish and should have listened to Mami's advice. Now i think she'll either get killed by a witch, get killed by Kyoko, or turn into a witch and get killed by Kyoko. I think if she turns into a witch its because her wish backfired and Kamijou will forget about her. Kyubey sure has great timing figuring that he left and got a new MS. I agree with the theory that Madoka knew Homura in the past and was a MS before. I think she is also trying to prevent others from suffering the pain of being a MS. Though i feel sorry for her because she has to deal with it by herself. Interesting to see what Kyoko's first move will be.
__________________
|
2011-01-28, 16:09 | Link #135 | ||||
Banned
|
Quote:
You'd agree that this is a deconstruction of the MG genre, right? Then what makes you think anything is going to go exactly as you predict? If, as you might believe that the very notion of this anime is going to against all preconceived notions, then by that very viewpoint alone, you can't adequately predict. It's the nature of the human mind to see patterns in chaos, even if such patterns ultimately don't exist. I wouldn't get so caught up in yourself, that you lose sight of the fact that you could be wrong. Quote:
[quote]That's a pretty cynical way to look at it. Which normally would play exceptionally well with Urobuchi Gen, but I think you're on the wrong track here. I don't see this kind of self-loving vanity in Madoka at all. She said that by becoming a MG she might be able to be useful to others. That's her focus. For Sayaka, it's a means to an end. Kazu-kun pointed it out clearly above, but you seem to disagree, so let me phrase it somewhat differently: "I'm nothing, I'm worthless, I can't do anything. I wish I could be a superhero and save people so I could feel good about myself!" Is that a selfish or selfless wish? (Hint: It's a trick question). Quote:
Your issue is that you have this construct of the show in your mind. You've made up your mind, decided this is the way the show has to go, and so you're jamming facts around your conclusion, and tossing out ones you don't feel fit. There's a word for people like that. It's how we get our right and left winged pundits like Glenn Beck, continuing a narrative despite what the facts say. And we'll cherry pick out intelligence to support our position. Ease up, dude, and be a bit more flexible.^^ Quote:
The main difference between us, is that I'm not making predictions with the viewpoint of "I'm picking up all these signs so this is the way it's going to go." In fact, I'm not really making predictions at all; just tossing out possibilities with the full knowledge that I could be wrong. My main focus is, and always has been, that I feel the show needs to address something that it has so far failed to address. Whether your predictions or right or not ultimately doesn't matter; good writing demands it be addressed. I take it you haven't watching The Neverending Story 2 or 3, either. Edit to add one last point: If Madoka's wish to be a useful MG is so selfless, then she wouldn't have backed down from becoming one. The fact that she did, shows that she is more worried about herself, than other people. |
||||
2011-01-28, 16:13 | Link #136 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Quote:
But yeah, let's agree to disagree for now. We'll see what happens.
__________________
|
|
2011-01-28, 16:20 | Link #137 |
cho~ kakkoii
Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
|
Very good episode. The discussion on it is even better. Another question would be if it is even possible to revive anyone who perished in that world. This episode also empathize with an earlier scene where that cutesy thing was being chased in an attempt to kill it.
Btw, here is an example of inference to a certain meaning: your wifey is talking to you about how the electric bill for this month is so high while sitting on the dining table. She is brainstorming about what measures need to be taken to reduce consumption. You said, "let me see it." Your wife goes to pick "it" up. Mind you on the table there is a small basket of fruits, a pen, a checkbook, a harmonica, and today's mail. The question is, what exactly your wife thinks you want to see when you stated, "let me see it?" I think most of us would answer: the mail with the electric bill on it. Yeah, its possible the husband probably wanted the harmonica to play a tune, or perhaps a piece of fruit from the basket because he did not specifically stated about what he wants. Given the discussion at hand the wifey was trying to have with the husband, however, the most obvious deduction would be he was asking for that electric bill.
__________________
|
2011-01-28, 16:35 | Link #138 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
I got it. That's why Urobuchi has Madoka going to the rescue as a normal human in this episode. It's to build confidence!!
Madoka's wish until episode 3 was wrong. It was basically a wish for self-worth, and like I said before, that's not something you should look for in an external source, it's not something you should wish for. You have to build your confidence on your own, no magic wand. When Madoka realizes she doesn't need magic to be useful, it'll mean she's ready to be a magical girl. Only then her wish can be truly selfless.
__________________
|
2011-01-28, 16:36 | Link #139 |
I kill you
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: In your brain
|
I was thinking about what 'Sayaka and Madoka's divided paths mean. Now it is pretty much clear that Sayaka will face endless despair through her entire journey towards the death.
Madoka was crying during the entire episode, but that also means that she 'accepted the reality'. She knows how cruel being mahou shoujo is, and decided to follow her rational judgement. However, Sayaka was 'escaping' from this truth. She did not want to talk about Mami's death when Madoka asked at first. She was also pretending to be cheerful and Madoka could not hide her feeling. That's the difference between them. and Sayaka's wish... was not truthful. What she truly wants is 'NOT' curing Kamijou. Her true wish is 'Kamijou playing violin for HER'. We all remember how Mami said, 'think careful when you choose wish, it has to come from your heart'. Sayaka's wish WASN'T. She denied her inner desire and decided to ignore the situation. What will happen to Kamijou? Before the accident, him and Sayaka's relationship had absolutely nothing. Sayaka was Kamijou's mere audience, and that was the reality. Due to the accident, now Sayaka finally had the upper hand, and inner-self of her was actually happy that she can meet him personally. After the cure, Kamijou will go back to his usual-self as a prodigious performer, Sayaka will be 'FORGOTTEN', just like Mami was. With this endless despair, Sayaka will have to risk her life against witches or Kyoko. "there are magic and miracle. But there are also reality"
__________________
|
2011-01-28, 16:40 | Link #140 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
|
Well, unlike most people I think that Sayaka can life to the end of the series. She got a thought line referring to future events (like Madoka did).
Might it be that Homura wants to prevent new Magical Girls being created. She looked rather suprised that Sayaka became a Puella Magi. Whatever methods she has to know so much (about Madoka and her school and Mami's situation) it didn't seem to include the knowledge of Sayaka contract. |
|
|