[Manga] Chapter 489 Discussion

[ragnos007]

Originally Posted by james0246

Don't worry, it'll turn out that there is another Legendary weapon that can pierce any defense, then it'll be Naruto's Ultimate Offense vs. Sasuke's Ultimate Defense....

Seriosuly, though, I imagine that Itachi's Legendary Items will not be seen in the series again, or if they are, they will be quickly be defeated or at least de-powered.

I just realised something... Madara wont let Sasuke us the Totsuka sword on Naruto if he gets it because that would seal up naruto and therefore kyuubi, ending the possibility of getting JUUUBI

[Sakuranbo]

Originally Posted by SeanQ

I'd like to know how Kabuto got pieces of Nagato, Itachi, Deidara and Kakuzu to even be able to summon them...

Yes especially since I was under the impression that only Konan knew that Pain = Nagato and that Pain really = 6 corpses controlled by Nagato.

Well if Kabuto DID summon Edotensei then that means someone is going to die trying to get rid of them, since they are immortal. Now who else could know the Reaper Death Seal hmmmm?

[morbosfist]

Or someone could just smash the corpses into dust. There's got to be a limit to damage recovery.

[Ulquiorra]

It's basically Creative(or uncreative) Writing 101. You are now down to about 4 villains. Madara, Sasuke, Kisame and Zetsu. Kabuto's villain status was up in the air till this chapter. You just recently killed off a potential villain in Danzou, ending any chance of a Konoha Civil War. So now you are left with a quandary. Naruto will get his fight, but what about the other non-main characters? What to do with them? You have three choices.

• 1. Create a bunch of new high level villains for them to fight.
  Problem - Fans will inevitably compare them to the former group of villains. You don't have enough time to properly develop them. They will come across as filler.
• 2. You create a huge Mook Army. A true 4th ninja war.
  Problem - They'll seem weak compared to the former Akatsuki. When Tenten starts taking 4 or 5 of them out at a time, no one will care.
• 3. You bring back the former dead Akatsuki. Deidara, Nagato, Kakuzu, Itachi, and Sasori. Now the kids have something powerful to fight. And you still have Madara, Zetsu, Kisame, and Kabuto. It won't be all about Naruto.
  Problem - So what did we accomplish these past 200 plus chapters of Shippuden? Apparently just the defeat of Hidan and conversion of Konan.

Of the three, #3 seems to be the easiest to write. So you can see why Kishi would go for it. And maybe a combination with #2 as Madara lines up the smaller villages against the Big 5.

[Biggie Smallz]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

What makes you think killer Bee outlived his purpose...

Cuz he got his butt kicked by Kisame and failed to kill him. I mean you have too piece this up that once you fail once you don't get a second chance in this manga unless your Naruto.

I mean most everyone thought this would happen. Killer Bee can control his demon and that seemed like an obvious power up for Naruto, to learn to control the ninetails; hell he was even given the key in this chapter which probably something he'll need.

Bee can control his beast beecause his beast is his partner, the kyuubi is not so much but a means to an end for Naruto and vice versa and he wants to control him. Naruto will probably train alone or with toad sage, because thats what the key is for ironically a key from a frog, and technically frogs would help Naruto master his kyuubi.

this prophesy would have been a lot more interesting about 150 chapters ago


Kage #1: madara is after the demon, maybe we should protect them
Kage #2: ya maybe we can hide them togehter so that they can use they're high level strength to protect eachother

Really their are probably a dozen ways for them to meet

That would be helpful if Bee and the rest of the village weren't aware that an akatsuki is on their turf ready to punce on Beee and dupe them and also getting reading for war like everyone else. Bee is still a shinobi of the cloud and has to defend his village from any threat he just can't leave to train with a kid who probably he would hate just as much as Raikage does who is overall working to save a enemy ninja who tried to kill and capture him.

I don't see Kisame failing again and Madara needs the tailed beats up to 8 in order to pose a true threat.

Some might think being able to control the nietails as Bee controls his demon would help... but maybe that's just crazy talk

Kyuubi is no bodies partner it looks after himself.

Anyway, I think this spoiler is faker than Kanye.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

It's basically Creative(or uncreative) Writing 101. You are now down to about 4 villains. Madara, Sasuke, Kisame and Zetsu. Kabuto's villain status was up in the air till this chapter. You just recently killed off a potential villain in Danzou, ending any chance of a Konoha Civil War. So now you are left with a quandary. Naruto will get his fight, but what about the other non-main characters? What to do with them? You have three choices.

• 1. Create a bunch of new high level villains for them to fight.
  Problem - Fans will inevitably compare them to the former group of villains. You don't have enough time to properly develop them. They will come across as filler.
• 2. You create a huge Mook Army. A true 4th ninja war.
  Problem - They'll seem weak compared to the former Akatsuki. When Tenten starts taking 4 or 5 of them out at a time, no one will care.
• 3. You bring back the former dead Akatsuki. Deidara, Nagato, Kakuzu, Itachi, and Sasori. Now the kids have something powerful to fight. And you still have Madara, Zetsu, Kisame, and Kabuto. It won't be all about Naruto.
  Problem - So what did we accomplish these past 200 plus chapters of Shippuden? Apparently just the defeat of Hidan and conversion of Konan.

Of the three, #3 seems to be the easiest to write. So you can see why Kishi would go for it. And maybe a combination with #2 as Madara lines up the smaller villages against the Big 5.

I see your point, but...since when does Kishi care about giving the non-main characters their own fights? (Honestly, he had the perfect opportunity with the Pain arc and he completely blew it)

[james0246]

Anyway, I think this spoiler is faker than Kanye.

How dare you belittle the Vocie of a Generation....

Yeah, I'm really not expecting much from Kirabi anymore. The best we can expect from him is that he will give Naruto some hints, then get pwnd by Kisame...

[Rahan]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

I see your point, but...since when does Kishi care about giving the non-main characters their own fights? (Honestly, he had the perfect opportunity with the Pain arc and he completely blew it)

Pain was supposed to be Naruto's breakthrough fight. Naruto had to do it (mostly) alone.
Kishi should have never made Pain invade Konoha. It made everyone look bad or irrelevant except Naruto (and Konohamaru) and it forced the cop out in the end. The only redeeming grace of the "invasion" was the page of Konoha being bombed ...


Anyway, I already mentioned it in the previous thread, but it somehow confirms my suspicions about Kishi being forced to change the direction of the manga this winter.

He rushed and ended Sasuke's drama in not even 10 chapters. Now we have the confirmation the only reason Kisame was brought back was not to capture Bee thanks to a magnificent plan, but to be killed by Naruto in front of a crowd. (Karui will be watching for sure)

Kabuto is probably reintroduced for the same reasons and to give the secondary characters their fights.
Anyway, they are probably not for Naruto since it doesn't look like the Sage Toad made mention of Kabuto to Naruto. So Kabuto will either give us a team effort of the forgotten characters (Tsunade supported by the rookies, I guess) or EMS hype. (with Kabuto infiltration plan failing as much as Kisame's).

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Rahan

Pain was supposed to be Naruto's breakthrough fight. Naruto had to do it (mostly) alone.
Kishi should have never made Pain invade Konoha. It made everyone look bad or irrelevant except Naruto (and Konohamaru) and it forced the cop out in the end. The only redeeming grace of the "invasion" was the page of Konoha being bombed ...

And I'll agree with that, except that I think Kishi still could've had Pain invade Konoha and still pulled it off. Seriously, just take 5 of the Konoha rookies (preferably having Lee and Hinata among them) have them defeat 5 of the Pains and then Naruto can defeat the final strongest one. But the way Kishi did it, it resulted in a grotesque power imbalance with Naruto becoming effectively stronger than the entire village.

But whatever. As long as we agree that the Pain arc was poorly executed.

[Ulquiorra]

Originally Posted by Rahan

Anyway, I already mentioned it in the previous thread, but it somehow confirms my suspicions about Kishi being forced to change the direction of the manga this winter.

The WSJ editors probably had a talk to him. We know they have influence over the manga according to an old Jump Festa interview about Team Taka. They probably gently reminded him enough with the fapping over Sasuke and please do something with the side characters that happen to make up a lot of the merchandise sales and the anime thinks are the stars of the show along with Team 7.

Really, Kabuto is a plot device. All villains are. He is just more of a blatant example.

[Sakuranbo]

I thought Sasori was currently being Kankuro's new puppet, isn't it a faux-pas? Also what about the sound Ninja 4, their first appearance was just acting as a bouncer/bodyguard for Orochimaru, and even then after that the most development they received was a group flashback via Kabuto about Kimimaro, so it isn't like they were actively doing stuff like Deidara and Kisame were when Shippuden/Part 2 started. If anything Kishi could just stretch the hell out of it and have several chapters with arguing and some plot development, and more arguing, some fighting, Tite Kubo does this with Bleach all of the time (interestingly enough both villain groups are kind of in a similar predicament as far as being short-handed on minions goes.)

[Nintendo]

guess a little 8 tails vs 9 tails action is good. show the different power levels of them both.

madara isnt an idiot, he knows he cant be killed....he knows oro is dead and knows this is a cheap rip off. madara was clearly the most powerful akitsuki member and even if kabutoro wanted to kill him he couldnt.

sasuke with his new super eyes can prob kill him if he really wanted to do it. if anything, kabuto will help sasuke answer questions on how danzo got the eyes and stuff, because danzo said it was kinda important to get him.

[tkdtiger]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

And I'll agree with that, except that I think Kishi still could've had Pain invade Konoha and still pulled it off. Seriously, just take 5 of the Konoha rookies (preferably having Lee and Hinata among them) have them defeat 5 of the Pains and then Naruto can defeat the final strongest one. But the way Kishi did it, it resulted in a grotesque power imbalance with Naruto becoming effectively stronger than the entire village.

But whatever. As long as we agree that the Pain arc was poorly executed.

Lee didn't get there in time to fight I would have liked to see hinata win for once

[Sabaku Kyu]

Well a RAW is out, proving the spoilers are 100% legit. The color spread of the minor shinobi from different villages was kinda cool. But despite the exciting ending, it's actually a pretty dull chapter. Karin getting questioned by Ibiki.Tsunade awake from the coma so hungry she's eyeing Ton-Ton. The jounin council. Naruto eating ramen and receiving scroll. Anko trailing Kabuto...

The Edo Tensei summoning was pretty awesome however. The zombies all look much the same as they did alive except their cloaks are solid black now (Nagato has white hair too). I also like Kakuzu's look now that it shows his "hair" and he doesn't wear the mask.

Apparently Naruto's "that jutsu" is still unfinished too and not forgotten. I want to see how long Kishi dangles that carrot in front of everyone.

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

And I'll agree with that, except that I think Kishi still could've had Pain invade Konoha and still pulled it off. Seriously, just take 5 of the Konoha rookies (preferably having Lee and Hinata among them) have them defeat 5 of the Pains and then Naruto can defeat the final strongest one. But the way Kishi did it, it resulted in a grotesque power imbalance with Naruto becoming effectively stronger than the entire village.

The thing is Jiraiya fought all the bodies at once by himself and held his own. If Naruto had only fought one body, even if it was the most powerful one, it wouldn't have come across clearly that he had surpassed Jiraiya. It's not that Kishi failed to pull off what we wanted, it's that people don't accept where he's taking the direction of the story. Naruto being that far ahead of everyone else is the way it's supposed to be.

[Blaster]

Akatsuki never dies huh? This is on the verge of lame and stupid.

First, all Akatsuki had some sort of resurrection skills meaning the Naruto and co had to kill them X2. Pain wins with X5. Now Edo Tensei resurrect them again. I assume the ninja have to kill all of them X2 again and Pain X5? Oh since Pain is back again, it seems very likely Tsunade will be conveniently dispose off again in the name of protecting the village again.

Good job kishi.

As for Naruto's justu, it's X10000 size of Rasengan so he can 1 hit ko all the akatsuki members at the same time that got resurrected.

[Kakosan]

Originally Posted by Blaster

As for Naruto's justu, it's X10000 size of Rasengan so he can 1 hit ko all the akatsuki members at the same time that got resurrected.

That is basically the definition of a nuclear fision bomb

[Marcus H.]

Nagato is the only one there, I think. But still he has the ability to Chibaku/Shinra Tensei yet again. This time, he, along with the rest of the Akatsuki zombies, has the durability of the Androids of Dragonball fame.

[Cephei Mordred]

Well I can accept this.

Akatsuki was down to Sasuke's Great Grandfather (or whatever his relation to Sasuke is), a plant man, a shark man, and Sasuke himself. They desperately needed more manpower.

Also, I like this because it makes 2nd Hokage seem questionable now. Despite the protests from those who still want to see the Uchiha as pure evil and the Senju is pure good, the fact that he even invented this jutsu...

[james0246]

The birth of a thousand Doujinshi - Tsunade: Get me MEAT! (supplement Meat with whatever word you want, and bingo instant doujin success).

Also - Karin: Give me some Katsudon, Bitch!; or even Naruto: I'm getting hungrier with all this shit going on...

I'm sensing a trend here...maybe Kishimoto shouldn't write when he is obviously hungry...

[tkdtiger]

I wished kish would some of the other rookies the only ones I can see really being relevant is shikamaru hinata and neji and maybe lee hoping shino would get some time