2008-12-10, 12:11 | Link #1641 | ||||||||||||
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Back home and ready to finish the last post I missed.
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A clear need would have been if there was no way around the AMF, and mass-weaponry were the only, or the only viable, solution. There was no such situation here. Quote:
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And wasn't it you who said something along the lines of 'when new evidence is introduced, the old has to be reviewed?' same case here. Just because I supported something in the past doesn't mean I'm willing to admit my mistake and change my views. I did so on magic damage, I did so on heat-seeking magic, and I've done so on the mass-weapon paranoia. Quote:
So let's review, so far all villains that didn't have access to magic resorted to mass-based weaponry. I think it's safe to say the brainwashing theory has been smashed, as villains do resort to guns. Quote:
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No? Then we'll consider it normal concrete. Otherwise I can just as easily go ahead and join the 'but drones have lightweight yet bulletproof armor that can only be broken by magic' group. Last edited by Keroko; 2008-12-10 at 12:28. |
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2008-12-10, 12:24 | Link #1642 | |
He Who Smites Shippers
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 36
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2008-12-10, 14:53 | Link #1645 |
He Who Smites Shippers
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 36
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True, if devices were military equipment then Lindy would have confiscated RH until Nanoha agreed to collaborate with the bureau. Yuuno probably would have been in trouble for possessing RH in the first place, being a citizen of Mid.
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2008-12-10, 16:44 | Link #1646 | |
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Fate was a criminal, and Precia didn't care about the laws when equipping and training her daughter for combat. This is pretty much a non-issue, considering ideally Lindy should have plucked both of them from combat. Not to mention Yuuno would have been in trouble for possessing Lost Logia, which are far more hazardous then a single Device any day. |
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2008-12-10, 17:00 | Link #1647 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
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All she did was take a "verification Exam", a temporary mage exam. http://www.onemanga.com/Magical_Girl...anoha_As/2/01/ And being a collaborator doesn't mean being slated to work in the military at all O.o Edit: Hell, they didn't even take her device when she was in trial, i think (they didn't take it when they took custody of her). |
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2008-12-10, 17:11 | Link #1648 |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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No, but it was pretty clear she was going to join anyway.
Edit: Blar, why am I even debating this? I already acknowledged that civilians have no clear restriction in obtaining Devices. <_< Last edited by Keroko; 2008-12-10 at 17:48. |
2008-12-10, 19:15 | Link #1649 | |
Blazing General
Join Date: May 2006
Location: CA
Age: 37
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Of course like you said this is really only an argument for the Type IIIs. The power core they were protecting was also floating free in the air but it was obviously delivering power to the ship somehow. I don't think the presence or absence of physical connections tells us much one way or the other here.
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2008-12-10, 19:17 | Link #1650 | ||||
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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2008-12-10, 19:43 | Link #1651 | |
Blazing General
Join Date: May 2006
Location: CA
Age: 37
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Also it's misleading to say that keeping something suspended takes force but no energy. There is no energy change in the object suspended, but the object/system doing the suspending is another matter.
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2008-12-10, 21:13 | Link #1652 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Not to mention the main emphasis is about energy, and for the object being stopped, being "caught" involves a LOSS of energy that can be recovered. A simple example will be to stop it using friction - the friction will heat up the rubbing surface, and can theoretically be soaked off for work elsewhere. Quote:
Even in real life, if you use a piece of string, you can keep something suspended with no energy. |
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2008-12-10, 21:32 | Link #1653 |
Blazing General
Join Date: May 2006
Location: CA
Age: 37
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1) Point's the same though, yes? Lifting something very heavy very quickly is a lot more impressive than lifting it slowly, a quick catch is more impressive than a slow lift.
2) So it's very possible that keeping something suspended with magic takes a lot of energy.
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2008-12-10, 22:02 | Link #1654 | |||
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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2008-12-10, 22:28 | Link #1655 |
Sword Wielding Penguin
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What exactly is ark trying to prove?
As far as I've seen and dscribed. Subaru's air-tackle is pretty simple. She has X mass, only slightly higher than normal human X mass. She then performs a quick flip, leg-grab air tackle on the drone trying to flank her. Subaru can't fly, so once she leaves the ground, she no longer has any point from which to apply her extra strength, and the application of impact force is now mass X velocity. The drone she tackles cannot weigh near to, or significantly more than her, or she would end up latching onto it and the mutual center of gravity that results would pivot either somewhere in the drone, or between the two of them. What occures, is she flips, scissors the drone, and with her own body weight, brings it down, mounting the back of it in the process. In fact, her stomach remained the center of the spin the entire time. Meaning the center mass of the combined entity was still squarely on her. That puts the drone at half her mass or less. Since part of her physical mass was wrapped around the drone, but the center of the spin remained in her center-mass. If Subaru, cyborg parts and all, weighs around 200 lbs, that puts the drone at or below 100 lbs. If I were to guess, the drone probably weighs sixty to seventy lbs. About the weight of a fully loaded US military duffel bag. (And incidently, of similar size, with the drone having a volume advantage.) http://www.fototime.com/0C1ED25781F69F1/orig.jpg That would mean little to no armor at all, and in fact, more than likely most of it's construction is probably more plastic than metal, especiallly the outer case to keep it light and cheap, especially if the more important functional internal parts are heavy... Also makes it energy cheap to fly, and a resource cheap engine can be used on it. (Which helps to explain why subaru could keep it easily pinned with her bodyweight once she tackled it...) (As a side note: Using plastic or light ceramic for the case would also make it harder to detect with lower tech tracking methods, like radar. Helping to expedite the fact that drones seem to pop up on the sensors whenever they want.) Since these are the cheap redshirt drones, it makes perfect sense that they aren't made with substantial and valueable metals. Though, at the same time, they get called, 'scrap metal cousins' by one of Jail's team. (Either Jail himself, or one of the numbers.) So that means they would have to have a primary construction of metal... So my vote would be plastic, and aluminum construction as the primary material set. Tin, and Zinc are at least three times heavier, and actual usefull metals that would make decent armoring for the casing weigh up to ten times that much or more. So I guess that would make Jail the universe's greatest recycler of aluminum cans and plastic tupperware containers! ^_^v |
2008-12-10, 23:35 | Link #1657 | |
Sword Wielding Penguin
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You support the creation of one of these: http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/59/drone02er8.jpg I'm pretty certain the metal skeleton structures of the nubile young cyborgs would be made with something that could actually withstand cyclic tension... like titanium alloy or something that's actually STRONG. |
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2008-12-11, 00:16 | Link #1658 | |||||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Just some quick swipes at people trying to use magical stabilization to provide leverage for Subaru, allowing the drone to be heavier (better protected) in your below calc, and a quickie clarification of the differences between stopping something from falling and actually lifting something.
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There's another way to see the "handful of squads". We've always been wondering where the heck everyone else was in the final battle. Here's an quickie idea: everyone else was actually there, and they started out with entire regiments or even divisions, but out of all those units, those "handful of squads" were the only scraps of them that were trainable to be even marginally effective in the AMF environment. Knowing this they just glued them into two composite units under Nakajima (ground) and Hayate (air) and sent them into the fray. How's that? Quote:
If Regius or any other high official went and did a study on "How hard would it be to get our guys to be competent in a AMF environment", one of the first things they'll do is go to the principal, just like Fate did, and we all know the conclusion (right or wrong) she gave - it might be possible to get limited, elite groups to be competent in it, but as a forcewide program the prospects are poor, and it sure would be nice if mass weapons were allowed! Thus, the situation, as the decisionmakers would have perceived it, mass weapons were arguably the only viable solution! By the way, such input might be a factor for Regius to push anti-AMF work to the backburner. Regardless of secret programs, all generals work on analyses of cost effectiveness, and given a report that such a program has a "low success probability", it is in fact perfectly logical for him to divert resources elsewhere. There's no way he could know that the input was wrong (and was it really so wrong - see above), especially seeing he isn't a mage and this means he can't really understand the issues as intuitively as one, especially after his mage friend Zest bit the dust. Quote:
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By the way, when did Runessa get her licence? Is it possible that her getting the licence is one of the post-Scarlietti reforms? Quote:
And personally, I can't think of any better way for an author to slip in this little tidbit about Midchildran concrete than by showing it ... repeatedly. Last edited by arkhangelsk; 2008-12-11 at 00:34. |
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2008-12-11, 00:43 | Link #1659 | |
Blazing General
Join Date: May 2006
Location: CA
Age: 37
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