sola - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[Mueti]

Hmmm...I like Sae, don't know what's wrong with you guys.

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by Cats

#1 Your labeling her a murderer when we don't even have speculation to support that. Did anyone even mention a theory until now justifing how Aono would have purposely tried to kill anyone? I don't see Aono thinking of that Matsuri-Yorito event the hole episode. It's only normal to assume she either did it unconsciously or she didn't do it at all. (and most likely it has something to do with Yorito)

That just shows that she's not being bothered by taking/attempting to take lifes imo. Not exactly a positive attribute if you ask me.
The fact that the stabbing was indeed her doing was so obvious, I never questioned it. If it would turn to be as you suspect, that would be a very lame twist.

Originally Posted by Cats

#2 We have more evidence pointing out Matsuri as much much more evil, if we were to base our assumptions on your formula. Face it she said it herself. Or is she some kind of exception to your logic.

What's that evidence you're speaking of?

As far as Aono is concerned I'm with Skyfall on this one. I'm not too sure how much "logic" I did apply to come to the same conclusion though.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Skane

Mayuko made that comment as in, "Was he the target you're after?" Not because she knew him.

Cheers.

I guess that's where the translation versions differ. I used Lunar's version.

"Was it him?" implies a prior relationship with Matsuri for Yorito, Takeshi and Mayuko.

"Was he the target you're after?" implies that Mayuko doesn't know that they are after Matsuri and doesn't know Matsuri. This would also mean that Matsuri revived a total stranger which is not likely imo.

[Mueti]

Originally Posted by orion

I guess that's where the translation versions differ. I used Lunar's version.

"Was it him?" implies a prior relationship with Matsuri for Yorito, Takeshi and Mayuko.

"Was he the target you're after?" implies that Mayuko doesn't know that they are after Matsuri and doesn't know Matsuri. This would also mean that Matsuri revived a total stranger which is not likely imo.

I don't think the translation really makes much of a difference here, "Was it him?" doesn't necessarily imply a prior relationship between them. It could as well mean "Was it him (you were after)?". It's just a more literal translation of what she actually said (「彼なの？」).

[Skane]

Originally Posted by orion

I guess that's where the translation versions differ. I used Lunar's version.

"Was it him?" implies a prior relationship with Matsuri for Yorito, Takeshi and Mayuko.

"Was he the target you're after?" implies that Mayuko doesn't know that they are after Matsuri and doesn't know Matsuri. This would also mean that Matsuri revived a total stranger which is not likely imo.

Erm... it has nothing to do with difference in translations. It was "Was it him?" in [Doremi]'s version as well. Mueti explains further. My post was an elaboration on what she meant, and not quoted from the subtitles.

Takeshi's response is important here in terms of context. His reply wouldn't make much sense if Mayuko was trying to state that she knew Yorito personally.

Originally Posted by Mueti

I don't think the translation really makes much of a difference here, "Was it him?" doesn't necessarily imply a prior relationship between them. It could as well mean "Was it him (you were after)?". It's just a more literal translation of what she actually said (「彼なの？」).

To be more precise, "Was it him whom you were after?"

Cheers.

[Mueti]

Originally Posted by Skane

To be more precise, "Was it him whom you were after?"

Oh, yes of course, thanks for the correction. ^^


I'm starting to wonder just how long they'll keep waiting before we're provided with the background we need to understand all of their actions. Maybe there finally will be some sort of revelation if Yorito interrupts the two girls' fighting next time.

[felix]

Originally Posted by Mueti

Spoiler:

What's that evidence you're speaking of?

Spoiler for Reply:

What part of "..if we were to base our assumptions on your formula.." didn't you read

I was pocking at Sky's conclusions, considering how Matsuri seems to feel all sorry about Aono and how from most of Matsuri's conversation a huge shower of blame seems to fall on her head. So if we were to judge by actions and not intentions (like Sky) then Matsuri's much more evil then Aono any day. We could also take Aono's actions as self-defence a la Sky, sorta speak~

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by Cats

Spoiler for Reply:

What part of "..if we were to base our assumptions on your formula.." didn't you read

I was pocking at Sky's conclusions, considering how Matsuri seems to feel all sorry about Aono and how from most of Matsuri's conversation a huge shower of blame seems to fall on her head. So if we were to judge by actions and not intentions (like Sky) then Matsuri's much more evil then Aono any day. We could also take Aono's actions as self-defence a la Sky, sorta speak~

Spoiler:

What i have against Aono is visual proof of her actions, while with Matsuri i have nothing beyond an ambiguous statement made by herself, which doesn't hint at anything in particular and might as well simply refer to the fact that she is not "normal". Also we know now that Matsuri had nothing to do with Yorito's death. I don't see any evidence that would support any claims of Matsuri being remotely evil in any way.

What she feels guilty about is, probably, her taking Yorito away from Aono (As if Aono has any claims on Yorito in the first place), which is very likely given her personality.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Skyfall

Spoiler:

What she feels guilty about is, probably, her taking Yorito away from Aono (As if Aono has any claims on Yorito in the first place), which is very likely given her personality.

Spoiler:

thats what i said in the first place...to aono matsuri has no right to take yorito from herself being the overprotective and shortapedo that she is BUT! what matsuri did was revive someone that should have died...i guess aono intended to die so she could be with yorito in the afterlife but matsuri stole that away from her as well...ill just call that naive on matsuri's part...her hate for matsuri runs deep for causing her to suffer a world without her love...and you never know...maybe the house falling on top of yorito could have been an indirect cause of matsuri using her powers...

gah this is turning into the aono and matsuri faction type argument...both sides have good points and its impossible to defeat one with the other...wheres san and luna when you need them

[kct]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

Spoiler:

thats what i said in the first place...to aono matsuri has no right to take yorito from herself being the overprotective and shortapedo that she is BUT! what matsuri did was revive someone that should have died...i guess aono intended to die so she could be with yorito in the afterlife but matsuri stole that away from her as well...ill just call that naive on matsuri's part...her hate for matsuri runs deep for causing her to suffer a world without her love...and you never know...maybe the house falling on top of yorito could have been an indirect cause of matsuri using her powers...

gah this is turning into the aono and matsuri faction type argument...both sides have good points and its impossible to defeat one with the other...wheres san and luna when you need them

Spoiler for Matsuri and Aono:

Now this where things are different. Matsuri have no idea of what happened with Aono (my assumption at this moment, PROVIDED that she has NO PART in the collapse of the house that led to Aono being an hero). For someone to end their own life quickly is like something that is wrong, but pitiful, and all Matsuri is trying to do was to give Aono a second chance at life (or at least something like that). Problem is, she does not know what she did causes more suffering, and truth to be told she does suffer from making the decision to revive Aono.

And hell no to faction wars, we do not need another one of that.

[felix]

Originally Posted by kct

Spoiler for Matsuri and Aono:

Now this where things are different. Matsuri have no idea of what happened with Aono [1] (my assumption at this moment, PROVIDED that she has NO PART in the collapse of the house that led to Aono being an hero [2]). For someone to end their own life quickly is like something that is wrong, but pitiful, and all Matsuri is trying to do was to give Aono a second chance at life [3] (or at least something like that). Problem is, she does not know what she did causes more suffering, and truth to be told she does suffer from making the decision to revive Aono. [4]

And hell no to faction wars, we do not need another one of that.

Spoiler for Reply:

What's in grey are presumptions on your part.

#1 How do you know she has no idea? I would think after she goes through the trouble of going to the cave, which seems to be on some mountain, she would have at least told her. And Matsuri didn't seem to have a surprise on her face when she told her "I can't live without Yorito!", so it's fair to assume everything was revealed before she committed suicide.

#2 Why is the collapse important it's not mentioned that that's how Yorito died, we don't even know if he ever did die.

#3 We don't know the extent of this second chance and neither do we know the circumstances around it.

#4 If, presuming, Yorito did die in the past she didn't seem to suffer at that time very much. It's kind of hard to comprehend how she can suffer this much for reviving Aono.. but I'll take it that was a animation mishap


And it's Sky who's with this "She's against Matsuri, therefore she's a demon bla bla bla" faction crap.
We all can accept any character can change, so go tell him no factions.

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by Cats

Spoiler:

And it's Sky who's with this "She's against Matsuri, therefore she's a demon bla bla bla" faction crap.
We all can accept any character can change, so go tell him no factions.

Spoiler:

So basically you are out of arguments and now trying to degrade mine. Thats nice. And lookie - i even got to find out i am in some sort of a faction i wasn't aware of.
But I have no intentions on continuing this topic of discussion.

[kct]

Originally Posted by Cats

Spoiler for Reply:

What's in grey are presumptions on your part.

#1 How do you know she has no idea? I would think after she goes through the trouble of going to the cave, which seems to be on some mountain, she would have at least told her. And Matsuri didn't seem to have a surprise on her face when she told her "I can't live without Yorito!", so it's fair to assume everything was revealed before she committed suicide.

#2 Why is the collapse important it's not mentioned that that's how Yorito died, we don't even know if he ever did die.

#3 We don't know the extent of this second chance and neither do we know the circumstances around it.

#4 If, presuming, Yorito did die in the past she didn't seem to suffer at that time very much. It's kind of hard to comprehend how she can suffer this much for reviving Aono.. but I'll take it that was a animation mishap


And it's Sky who's with this "She's against Matsuri, therefore she's a demon bla bla bla" faction crap.
We all can accept any character can change, so go tell him no factions.

Spoiler for more lulz?:

That's why I said 'assumptions', they have been wrong in the past.

1. Thing is, Matsuri probably have seen more than just people like Aono, not surprising given her age. She only appeared to Aono AFTER the suicide happened, so even if anything was actually said before that, it would probably fall onto deaf ears.

2. There is a chance that Matsuri might have been involved, and all Aono think is that 'Yorito's gone, I'm alone' sort of stuff.

3. Extent: Aono becomes a Yaka, and we know what happened right after she was 'revived'.

4. It's about the decision, more of like she didn't expect everything to come to this extent, especially what happened in present. Hell, even we don't expect everything to come to this.

>.>

[orion]

Originally Posted by Mueti

I don't think the translation really makes much of a difference here, "Was it him?" doesn't necessarily imply a prior relationship between them. It could as well mean "Was it him (you were after)?". It's just a more literal translation of what she actually said (「彼なの？」).

That would be right if the target was male but the target is female. So using that statement and implying "target" would mean that Mayuko doesn't know who the target is. That is unlikely as they have been together for a while looking for the target imo.


Of course, we have 5 episodes for this to play out and see all the relationships.

[Skane]

Originally Posted by orion

That would be right if the target was male but the target is female. So using that statement and implying "target" would mean that Mayuko doesn't know who the target is. That is unlikely as they have been together for a while looking for the target imo.

Of course, we have 5 episodes for this to play out and see all the relationships.

? What is your current episode in terms of watched fansubbed episodes? It has been already been explicitly stated (especially in Ep07) that Mayuko does NOT know who the Yaka is (up to the point where she finally meets Matsuri at least), nor has there been any direct indication that she even knows what gender is it.

Takeshi has been withholding information from her ALL this time, which is WHY she decided to run away from Takeshi in the first place.

Cheers.

[orion]

Actually, the lack of use of the Yaka's name implies nothing imo. For all we know, Takeshi could have a problem with hearing that name (gets raging mad, blah, blah, blah) and told her not to mention that name ever again. If Matsuri did revive Mayuko, then she knows Mayuko and Mayuko knows her.

That's why I said let's wait and see how the others are really related.

[Skane]

Originally Posted by orion

Actually, the lack of use of the Yaka's name implies nothing imo. For all we know, Takeshi could have a problem with hearing that name (gets raging mad, blah, blah, blah) and told her not to mention that name ever again. If Matsuri did revive Mayuko, then she knows Mayuko and Mayuko knows her.

That's why I said let's wait and see how the others are really related.

You're starting to confuse between knowing Matsuri as a person, and knowing Matsuri as a Yaka.

It is entirely possible for Mayuko to know Matsuri, but NOT know that she is a Yaka (just like how Mana knows about the existence of Yakas, but not know that Aono is one). This ties in handily with Takeshi withholding information from her, because he will not want to traumatise her, if this is the case.

When Mayuko queries about the Yaka, it is not in knowledge of knowing who the Yaka is. Who the Yaka is, is irrelevant to the point of Mayuko not knowing the Yaka's identity, and an entirely separate issue.

Cheers.

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by orion

Nah. When they turned her into a manipulating shotapedo, her moe potential went downhill imo.

Absolutely wrong. In fact, she's shooting up in the meter of Skane-sama's favourite subcategory of moe; Psycho-Moe.

Originally Posted by Icerack

Sae is annoying, IMO.

Imagine someone scraping her fingernails across a blackboard.

That is what Sae's voice keeps doing to me. >_<


Now, now. I'm honestly quite bemused at the Matsuri vs. Aono war of attrition, here. Did this place become the Shuffle! forum while I was away?

[PastPrime]

Originally Posted by Skane

You're starting to confuse between knowing Matsuri as a person, and knowing Matsuri as a Yaka.

It is entirely possible for Mayuko to know Matsuri, but NOT know that she is a Yaka (just like how Mana knows about the existence of Yakas, but not know that Aono is one). This ties in handily with Takeshi withholding information from her, because he will not want to traumatise her, if this is the case.

When Mayuko queries about the Yaka, it is not in knowledge of knowing who the Yaka is. Who the Yaka is, is irrelevant to the point of Mayuko not knowing the Yaka's identity, and an entirely separate issue.

Cheers.

Basically, that was the impression that I got. Mayuko thought that Matsuri and the Yaka were two different people. She didn't realize that the Yaka that Takeshi was trying to kill was Matsuri, who she wanted to talk to.

[WanderingKnight]

Now, now. I'm honestly quite bemused at the Matsuri vs. Aono war of attrition, here. Did this place become the Shuffle! forum while I was away?

Me too. I'm amazed by how people try to judge a character based on his/her moral standings and in direct comparison with reality, when we're talking about a fictional story...

Character development, even more in anime, is not about moral standings. It's about development, people.

[kct]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

Character development, even more in anime, is not about moral standings. It's about development, people.

In some cases, it is more like about how we interpret the development of the character (and the end result of it) as a whole, whether it is good, or not. However, however fictional is a work, there is sometimes instances opinions are influenced by what we see in real life, and as far as some of the people put here, what Aono has been doing is not right in the moral context, whatever is her intention (drama's started, and there's no turning back).

This is getting deep >_> . Man, I want the good times to return.