2008-01-06, 13:18 | Link #41 |
翻訳家わなびぃ
Fansubber
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When we started chapters for mp4, I initially provided the chapter files to the encoders... then I got lazy, but the encoders kept the practice. *phew*
The biggest peeve I have about mp4 and chapters is that I haven't seen it being supported by anything other than haali's splitter. With mkv, at least (god forsaken) vlc recognizes its chapters. (We won't talk about why I still stick with mp4.) |
2008-01-06, 14:28 | Link #43 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
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First, thank you Nicholi for very educational answer.
martino, yeah I assumed that in some cases it's just laziness. And I know this really depends who the encoder is. But maybe now some encoders sees this and starts to use them. Oh and I watched Ayu's Monster Princess, so I know you use them in mkv. Was about to download some reborn eps to see if you used them in mp4 as well. No need for that anymore. |
2008-01-06, 19:47 | Link #44 |
King of Hosers
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 41
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Well luckily I've never succumbed to martino's evul laziness yet :P. But I do know what he means by the extra few minutes to create chapters. If you want to make them exactly keyframe spot on at least.
But in my extreme laziness I also wrote a batch script to generate the chapters for me! No more wasted time! This one might actually prove useful to others if I publicly released it too...and is almost foolproof in using (I need to think of how to properly handle one infinite loop). Would you use it if I gave it to ya martino? You just specify the chapter names and the general location you assume a keyframe to be which is where you want the chapter. |
2008-01-07, 05:54 | Link #45 |
makes no files now
Join Date: May 2006
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Not exactly sure whether I would or not, but I'm sure it might prove useful for some other individual(s) as you said yourself. Given the fact that I myself usually create the chapters just as I run the video through YATTA and hit each section as I go along...
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2008-01-07, 06:49 | Link #46 | |
anal retentive
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2008-01-07, 14:46 | Link #47 | ||
Two bit encoder
Fansubber
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Age: 39
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Anyway, for reference, there is a standard, defined way of doing chapters. That is with BIFS, and comes under MPEG-4 systems with menus and the like, though obviously few if any use this method and nearly all stick to Nero's way. One exception may be DVD > MP4 conversion programs that would basically encode all the audio to AAC, all the video to H.264 and transpose the menus. In which case if menu support is there, it would pretty much have to "do it right" and write the chapters in systems rather than using user data method (otherwise I can't see a way of DVD like click to play chapter working since the chapter data is not stored in the obvious place). However I do not know if there are any such commercial converters yet. You can certainly do it with opensource/notepad/effort, but I was thinking along the lines of "press butan receiev DVD in MP4". Here is an example script which does MP4 chapters right. It's actually an example of an MP4 menu which is similar to what you would find on a DVD, but obviously chapter points are defined so you could skip to a certain chapter from the MP4 menu. Not not all menu scripts would be as big as this, most would likely be smaller and less complicated, however you could also make more complex ones. The chapter point definitions start around line 1960. You can set individual chapter points for multiple streams (eg you aren't limited to setting chapter points to just the main movie or audio, you could add them to trailers/extras or whatever) or perhaps multiple angles. http://sourceforge.net/project/downl...1.zip&79552839 It may also depend on the level that the splitter is implemented to. For example Haali's splitter does not deal with menus or any advanced stuff in MP4, so I don't suppose it would support the standard chapters (I could be wrong). Osmo does, and I believe it supports chapters in user data too. It's a lousy player, but it's designed pretty much to demonstrate the MP4 feature set rather than compete with MPC, VLC or whatever you want to compare it with. I believe that with MPEG-4 being open standard, Nero could actually apply to have it added to the official standard, but what with a similar feature already existing, I don't know if they would just tell Nero to GTFO. I believe (though I could be wrong because I don't really follow this stuff anymore) that Apple has made additions to the standard and has had them included in the official spec. Actually that's not a bad point. Even if Apple's stuff is not in the spec, it has still been widely adapted (such as Apple specific meta data). Finally not all uses of private streams are evil or badly supported. One such use that has stood the test of time would be AC3 in MPEG-2 systems (or basically AC3 in DVDs/VOB files). As you may or may not know, AC3, DTS and LPCM are stored as a private stream. Similarly, so are DVD subpictures/subtitles. With player support, I haven't really checked chapter support on consoles, but it does work on the KiSS 1600. I can't see an easy way to test it on my Xbox360 because it doesn't seem to like my harddrives, it will not do the sync thing with Windows and I don't want to be burning discs. Oh yes, this thing is the Windows ME of consoles, and then there's the disc read errors, freezing, Xbox Live gayness/shit on the dashboard not loading. God damn. Anyway, why the hell am I posting all this? The idea was for me to get away from encoding/fansubbing but I just keep getting sucked back in. Crazy. Quote:
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2008-01-07, 20:26 | Link #49 | |
King of Hosers
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 41
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Oh yes, I had completely forgotten about MP4 menues...because nothing supports it other then GPAC's player :P.
Which unfortunately brings up another point about MP4 menues (as well as vaporware MKV menues ) in Haali's splitter. The reason it is currently not supported, and may not be for quite some time, is because it will require extra support within each player. So as of quite a long time ago he stated he wasn't going to invest any time into it. Unless a bunch of DShow player devs start saying they want to add support for it, he probably won't code it. And god knows how that support will ever come to WMP. Quote:
/me lols at poor ScR3WiEuS |
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2008-01-08, 11:10 | Link #51 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 38
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To the end user it shouldn't really matter how softsubs are delivered. For all you care it could be an AVI file with an external subtitle file. Those load perfectly fine without being embedded in MKV (they're easier to edit that way as well), especially on Windows where the auto-loading version of VSFilter does everything for you. How they are delivered is just a matter of aestetics (i.e. not seeing two files, but one), but yeah, there is the issue of fansubbers choosing the font they wish to present their subtitles with. So yeah, MKV isn't a requirement for softsub playback, but it does offer some nice features that keep your average user unsuspectedly ignorant and happy (if they bother to install a splitter anyway).
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2008-01-08, 23:14 | Link #53 | |
DVD Subber
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Secondly, most people buy games consoles to play games on, not to use as a media hub. Also, Sony have basically forced Blu-Ray onto PS3 owners in order to push their own format, unlike MS who released the HD-DVD player as an add-on giving people the option if they wanted it or not. As for games, 360 beats PS3 for anime related games atm. Finally, .h264 is the future. Groups that still insist on ignoring it and sticking to xvid/avi will simply be forced to follow suite in the future when people snub their releases in favour of soft-subbed MKV's. |
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2008-01-09, 01:25 | Link #54 | |
Give them the What For!
Fansubber
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As I said before, just install linux on the thing and be done with it. Linux + smplayer then you can play mkv with the fonts and chapters just fine. And you could fansub with it too with Aegisub. H.264 is a clear winner. I belive h.264 encodes tend to be soft subs due to the time it takes to encode to that format. Re-encodes would just get annoying. And anybody encoding to h.264 anyway notices the quality and knows that hard subbing will take away from that quality.
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