2009-11-28, 23:08 | Link #121 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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I hope cross-posting theories is allowed, but here is my take on Maria's role in the story. I'll repost a theory I put up a little earlier in the Episode 3 thread since I'm just itching to get out of my system. I've only finished up to Episode 3, so I'll just dump this here for now and come back to this discussion about Maria after Episode 4 - I have heard there are more revelations concerning here there.
Maria is possibly one of the more fascinating characters in Umineko, and here is a rather long treatise on her incorporating a lot of stuff I have noticed. If it's too long, jump to the paragraphs after the bullet points - that's where I make my main argument. I apologize in advance if this is a little heavy on the religious analysis, but this is precisely what makes the When They Cry series so fascinating. Quote:
-Rosa's single motherhood of Maria, with an unknown father - seems to reinforce the "virgin birth" angle. -Maria has a basic grasp of Hebrew, possibly Ancient Hebrew - at the very least, she can recognize the passages on the magic circle -Has an interest in Halloween in particular, which is an odd syncretization of the Roman Catholic All-Saints Day and Samhain -an interest in the Christian occult especially -very young, perhaps too young to know what she does In many ways she seems the "Rika" for Umineko, as some have noted. In Higurashi, we had Rika as a Shinto priestess central to the story, and Higurashi's central theme - endlessly re-living the same life over and over until the "true resolution" is found - very closely mirrors the idea of reincarnation in Buddhism. Higurashi draws very heavily in this sense upon Far Eastern religion. Umineko still retains some of these Eastern elements, but I think Western religion plays a much bigger role. One key theme that keeps cropping up in Umineko is the idea of "resurrection". In this sense then, Maria steps into the same role as Rika - not as a shrine priestess representing Japanese Shinto and Buddhism, cycling through the same event over and over, but a faithful and pure believer (I hesitate to use "nun") representing Western Christianity (or at the very least, Western Catholicism). Maria/Christianity seeks to create a miracle from belief in a higher power, whereas Rika/Buddhism was able to create a miracle and "ascend" by repeating things over and over, both of these characters mirroring the mechanism of salvation (the soteriological strategy) of their respective religions. One wonders, if like Bernkastel, Maria might be able to become a witch... Seeing as Eva has become one I wonder if I've already figured out Episode 4... This has big ramifications I feel for both points of view - both the anti-fantasy and anti-mystery crowd. Whether you are inclined to believe the fantastical elements are real or not, Maria *is* the strongest support in either case. Her character is set up around belief and faith in the impossible, which makes her an important character in either theory - in anti-fantasy because she will believe anything she is told, and in anti-mystery because her belief is one of the prime power sources that Beatrice draws upon. Whew, that was a lot of words. Here's the fast version. TL;DR - Maria in Umineko = Rika in Higurashi --> similar role Rika in Higurashi = Shinto/Buddhism (shrine maiden) = reincarnation over and over to get true end Maria in Umineko = Catholicism (name; Virgin Mary) = belief in miracles/miraculous beings/(each other?) to get the true end. |
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2009-11-28, 23:31 | Link #122 |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Again I don't think Maria is exactly like Rika or that she remembers past events. She knows about the ceremony because "Beatrice" told her about it and she can easily infer what will happen in the letter. Besides Maria doesn't want everyone to live like Rika does. She WANTS Beatrice to complete the ceremony, so she can go to the Golden Land. If anything Rika and Maria are complete opposite roles.
Rika wants to see everyone with a happy resolution Maria wants to see Beatrice revive, everyone die and then go to the Golden Land (Heaven?) |
2009-11-28, 23:37 | Link #123 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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Quote:
"Repetition" is the dominant theme for Higurashi, strongly represented in Rika, while "Resurrection", (or perhaps "belief in a higher power"?) is the dominant theme for Umineko, represented by Maria - and these themes are reinforced by the religious imagery and iconography that surround each: Higurashi is predominantly Shinto, while Umineko is much more strongly Catholic. *edit* Not sure if I'm being 100% clear, so I'll give it one more shot: The central tenet in Buddhism is self-improvement - reincarnating and endlessly repeating the same existence until you learn from your mistakes and live "correctly" and reach enlightenment/salvation. This is represented very well by Rika's experience in Higurashi. The central tenet in Catholic Christianity, on the other hand - is faith and trust in a higher power, namely, God, who then grants salvationon. There's also the whole debate about the relation between faith and works, but that's a theological tussle for another time. We can see this theme represented in Umineko by Maria's relationship in Beatrice - she puts all of her faith in this seemingly divine higher power than can accomplish all miracles. I am, of course, grossly oversimplifying each and their are countless variations, but I simply wanted to point out how the character of Maria makes Umineko feel so very thematically different from Higurashi. |
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2009-11-29, 03:04 | Link #126 |
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Wow vendredi thats some really deep analogy there. I thought Maria was more like Hanyuu since the representation of Rika is already there.
Maria like Hanyuu always faithful to her friend shy and mellow similar voice etc etc. |
2009-11-29, 03:07 | Link #127 |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Really? I think you may be seeing that since they're voiced by the same VA Maria has never really reminded me much of Hanyuu - I don't think I can really compare any character in Umineko to Hanyuu (Jessica can be compared to Mion, Battler to Keiichi, George to Tomitake, etc)
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2009-11-29, 05:07 | Link #128 | |
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
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Quote:
As for Buddhism, it may even be linked to Umineko as well. Karma and the entire reincarnation cycle might be seen in the concept of the eternal games, such that the power of reincarnation rests on Beato. Then again, is it for the sake of the eternal victims, for her, or for Battler? Maybe a combinarion of all that? I wanted to elaborate a theory of mine regarding Beato's intentions, especially since your Buddhism analogy is very accutely similar to my central motive theory that I really should get down into actual text, but I can't since you haven't finished episode 4. Just as much you're Buddhism analogy is a lot of food for thought.
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2009-11-29, 10:52 | Link #130 | |
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Quote:
higurashi and umineko both confirm, child support are useless |
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2009-11-29, 11:39 | Link #131 | ||
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Quote:
Maria doesn't really have friends to be faithful to, the only one is Sakutaro and he's imaginary. All of her relatives at one point died and she showed no emotional attachment, not even to her mother in EP1. Hanyuu is extremely different. Her relationship with Rika is totally different from Maria's relationship with anybody. Really, it's just the voice. o__o; Quote:
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2009-11-29, 19:40 | Link #132 | |
Urusai! (うるさい
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2009-11-29, 19:45 | Link #133 | |
Urusai! (うるさい
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2009-12-02, 05:05 | Link #135 | |
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Quote:
Spoiler for Maria in Episode 4:
To address the Buddhist analogy in Umineko, one interesting thing pops up in Episode 4... Spoiler for Episode 4 new info on the Message in the Bottle:
As for Beato herself... this is quickly going all over and perhaps we should move this to the Episode 4 thread, but I'll have some quick notes here and pre-empt your thoughts, perhaps: Spoiler for Episode 4 end:
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2009-12-02, 05:43 | Link #136 | |
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
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Quote:
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2010-02-05, 22:30 | Link #138 |
Okuyasu the Bird
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2010-02-05, 22:31 | Link #139 |
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Even though there's arguably more to say about her than George, Shannon, Bernkastel, and Lambdadelta throughout the first 4 episodes... she's already grouped together with the rest of the adults... so I'm guessing that's a no unfortunately. owo;
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