Kashimashi Episode 12 Discussion/Poll

[Catgirls]

Welcome to this week's Episode of Kashimashi ~Girl Meets Girl~.

Thread Guidelines

• No telling or asking for RAWs.
• Try to keep Manga spoilers out of the anime thread. If you need to in reply to someone with a reference to the Manga, either PM them or use Spoiler tags (see example below).
• Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
• Be polite to your fellow forum members.
• Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible.

Spoiler Tag Usage

Using Spoiler Tags is easy. Using this...

[spoiler=Hazumu and Yasuna]Hazumu and Yasuna are both cats.[/spoiler]

....will get you this...

Spoiler for Hazumu and Yasuna:

Hazumu and Yasuna are both cats.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Well, not the ending I wanted, but a good one nonetheless, with lots of over- and under-tones for the future (although I don't really see a sequel).

Spoiler for episode 12:

Hazumu chooses to stay by Yasuna. Most of the episode is Hazumu and Tomari showing their friendship and love for each other and coming to terms with Hazumu's decision. Tomari's pain and love are just great, as are Hazumu's. When Tomari revealed her long-held vision of a future as Hazumu-the-guy's wife, it just about broke my heart. Yukarin and Kana! Hazumu finally catches up with Yasuna as she appears to be leaving town (for medical treatment?) Hazumu embraces her and says she loves her, and Yasuna's vision suddenly clears so she can see both women and men. The little scenes playing under the end credits leave us with views of the whole gang together, playing and joking. Two big questions for me. Ayuki comes up to Tomari after her big scene with Hazumu and embraces her. Was Ayuki really after Tomari all along? And at the end, after a scene of all the friends together, Yasuna lets go of Hazumu's hand and is about to say something: is it that she would welcome Tomari into the relationship? (My preferred ending.)

This series more than fulfilled my hopes for it after I fell in love with the manga. The voice acting, the backgrounds, the animation, the character design, the music -- all excellent. But above all the emotions of the characters worked just great, for me. As usual, I want to give enormous credit to the voice actors: Tamura Yukari, Ueda Kana, Horie Yui and Asano Masumi, in particular.

[BBOvenGuy]

FYI, Random Curiosity notes a report from MOON PHASE, saying that there will be a 13th episode on the DVD. I'll have to take that on faith, personally. So you may still get your desired ending.

Sounds like the ending played out pretty much the way I called it in the "old thread." I'm just glad that...

Spoiler:

Hazumu didn't turn back into a guy.

[Eclipze]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Spoiler for episode 12:

Ayuki comes up to Tomari after her big scene with Hazumu and embraces her. Was Ayuki really after Tomari all along?

.

Spoiler:

Heh, I had that thought ever since I read the manga. It never seemed like Ayuki was after Hazumu at all.

[friendshipz]

just i expected..no winner or loser in this anime..but the ending was just too plain..

[tun]

Spoiler:

Worthless...The Hazumu/Tomari relationship had so much depth than Hazumu/Yasuna. I was even almost crying when Tomari was talking about marrying him. Such a waste to see Hazumu make a stupid decision. I don't think I've been really satisfied with anything this season so far. This just adds to the list. Although, if the 13 episode DVD thing is true, I might have to change my mind. The ending for episode 12 left it completely up for a possible Tomari ending. When Yasuna stopped holding Hazumu's hand, I think she was about to break up with him maybe. Hazumu running across the rocks again might just give me the Hazumu/Tomari ending I'm looking for.

[BBOvenGuy]

Originally Posted by tun

Worthless...The Hazumu/Tomari relationship had so much depth than Hazumu/Yasuna. I was even almost crying when Tomari was talking about marrying him. Such a waste to see Hazumu make a stupid decision.

The Hazumu/Tomari relationship has history, but history isn't necessarily the same thing as depth. Personally, I never thought the two of them shared much apart from their history - which can make for a very satisfying and long-lasting friendship, but not necessarily a romance or a marriage. I still have yet to see the last episode, but the fact that Tomari is talking about marrying him is somewhat irrelevant, because Hazumu is no longer a "him." She has become something else - as all people do, just normally not this drastic or with the help of aliens - and Tomari can't relate to her in the same way that she related to him.

Hazumu and Yasuna always appeared to have much more in common with each other and be much more in sync with each other than Hazumu and Tomari - or at least that's the way I saw it.

[tun]

Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy

The Hazumu/Tomari relationship has history, but history isn't necessarily the same thing as depth. Personally, I never thought the two of them shared much apart from their history - which can make for a very satisfying and long-lasting friendship, but not necessarily a romance or a marriage. I still have yet to see the last episode, but the fact that Tomari is talking about marrying him is somewhat irrelevant, because Hazumu is no longer a "him." She has become something else - as all people do, just normally not this drastic or with the help of aliens - and Tomari can't relate to her in the same way that she related to him.

Hazumu and Yasuna always appeared to have much more in common with each other and be much more in sync with each other than Hazumu and Tomari - or at least that's the way I saw it.

I disagree with simply the history part. The history part also means that they are much closer than Hazumu and Yasuna are. They are more open to talk to each other and the feelings for each other feel more genuine or stronger because they are rooted in some kind of history. I'm pretty sure my bias for childhood friendship romances influneces my preferences heavily, but that's usually because the characters have known each other for so long and they just seem to click.

And the marrying "him" part isn't irrelevent. It still expresses her strong desire to be with "him". What's the difference in Hazumu wanting to be by Yasuna's side and Tomari talking about marrying "him"? Not much. They just want to be with each other.

Hazumu's gender change doesn't really have anything to do with it. It's just making it harder for Tomari because she still has these strong feelings for "him" but now she's just confused and frustrated because now that he is a "she", it's not exactly normal.

I didn't really see much of a connection with Hazumu and Yasuna. He saw her in the woods, thought she was pretty, and then planted some plants together. Those plants were sadly one of their only real connections with each other.

[BBOvenGuy]

* shrug * I've learned over the years not to argue the relative merits and preferences of one character pairing vs. another. I just calls 'em as I sees 'em.

From the standpoint of narrative, though, it was obvious to me that Hazumu would end up with Yasuna (rightly or wrongly) after Yasuna lost her sight, Ayuki did the bit with the two plants growing in a single pot and then Sora talked about the affliction his people are suffering from. Put them all together, and we the audience are essentially being told that something bad has happened to Yasuna because of Hazumu's inability to decide and commit. Sure, Hazumu could decide and commit to Tomari - some might even say that's the better choice - but it wouldn't cure Yasuna's problem, and from a narrative standpoint, that has to be done. Hazumu caused a problem. Hazumu has to fix it.

At that point, Hazumu's story became something of a coming-of-age plot. A realization that sometimes you can't have things both ways - that an adult faces that reality and therefore makes choices and commitments. And from what I've heard about Ep12 (which I haven't actually seen yet), it sounds like the story also becomes a coming-of-age plot for Tomari, as she realizes that life means change, and sometimes an adult has to let the dreams of childhood go.

Unfortunately, I haven't figured out exactly what Yasuna's story is yet. Right now, she mostly looks like the damsel in distress, simply waiting to be rescued. But that may just be because I haven't seen anything subbed past Ep9 - I don't have all the information yet. I may find her story once everything's been subbed.

[tun]

Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy

* shrug * I've learned over the years not to argue the relative merits and preferences of one character pairing vs. another. I just calls 'em as I sees 'em.

Calling them as you see them is basically the same thing. You're going to end up critiquing the pairing that happens for its merits and demerits so I don't see what's wrong with comparing them to another pairing. Although I understand quite well about the futility of arguing over pairings, I feel that it is necessary as a viewer who actually cares about the characters that are portrayed.

From the standpoint of narrative, though, it was obvious to me that Hazumu would end up with Yasuna (rightly or wrongly) after Yasuna lost her sight, Ayuki did the bit with the two plants growing in a single pot and then Sora talked about the affliction his people are suffering from. Put them all together, and we the audience are essentially being told that something bad has happened to Yasuna because of Hazumu's inability to decide and commit. Sure, Hazumu could decide and commit to Tomari - some might even say that's the better choice - but it wouldn't cure Yasuna's problem, and from a narrative standpoint, that has to be done. Hazumu caused a problem. Hazumu has to fix it.

I agree with this. It was unfortunately very obvious that Hazumu was going to pick Yasuna as soon her her problem was introduced. I kept playing possible scenarios of how she would be cured and the same thing kept reoccuring. Hazumu was going to end up with her. I even kind of figured it was going to be Yasuna since Horie Yui was cast as her seiyuu. She always seems to be the girl that ends up with the guy(or in this case the girl).

At that point, Hazumu's story became something of a coming-of-age plot. A realization that sometimes you can't have things both ways - that an adult faces that reality and therefore makes choices and commitments. And from what I've heard about Ep12 (which I haven't actually seen yet), it sounds like the story also becomes a coming-of-age plot for Tomari, as she realizes that life means change, and sometimes an adult has to let the dreams of childhood go.

I agree here also, but what I want to understand is Hazumu's reasons for picking Yasuna over Tomari. After watching the whole series now, I get the impression that Hazumu is picking Yasuna more over a sense of wanting to help her(damsel in distress kinda thing that you mention later) as well as a small sense of guilt he has since his indecisiveness has caused her and everyone else pain. These are the things that I don't like.

Unfortunately, I haven't figured out exactly what Yasuna's story is yet. Right now, she mostly looks like the damsel in distress, simply waiting to be rescued. But that may just be because I haven't seen anything subbed past Ep9 - I don't have all the information yet. I may find her story once everything's been subbed.

You're pretty much right. That's why I don't really like her has a character.

[BBOvenGuy]

Originally Posted by tun

I agree here also, but what I want to understand is Hazumu's reasons for picking Yasuna over Tomari. After watching the whole series now, I get the impression that Hazumu is picking Yasuna more over a sense of wanting to help her(damsel in distress kinda thing that you mention later) as well as a small sense of guilt he has since his indecisiveness has caused her and everyone else pain. These are the things that I don't like.

I can see that, and in fact there were points in the story where I felt it, too. When Tomari catches them kissing and runs out, Hazumu tries to follow and Yasuna grabs her by the arm. That set off an alarm for me (although, admittedly it may just have reminded me too much of my ex-wife... ).

However, I thought there were enough signs throughout the series that Hazumu and Yasuna did have things they shared. There was their love of plants, of course, but also their common musical tastes (remember that in Ep11 Yasuna gets out the CD that she and Hazumu both like), the fact that Hazumu wanted to cook with Yasuna at the beach, and the day they had at the Sea World type place (which I haven't seen subbed yet, but at least it looked like they had fun and enjoyed each other's company).

So yes, I see your point, but there was still enough evidence that Hazumu and Yasuna truly connected with each other to meet my personal burden of proof. For now, anyway. I'll know more once I've seen the last three subs.

[ati]

I really don't understand the ending at all. I like Yasuna charater, I'm her fan but I don't understand the reason why Hasumu choose her, is that love or something else?

That's why I really hate a these kind of anime. I don't get the ending, can anyone know what is it?

[Tatiana Razajev]

I'm not sure what to think about this episode. Maybe I'll feel differently later. I'll just have to see how this DVD only episode goes. However here is my contention for now. Although I should have suspected this from the start giving the "card" the winner played.

That's right Yasuna played the "woe is me" card. Honestly that's my main gripe with the ending. It's not the fact she won in of itself. It's actually the fact her victory mainly came form an unfair advantage by playing the "woe is me" card. In fact this makes me feel a bit sorry for Yasuna because her victory will forever be over shadowed by the fact she directly or okay indirectly played the card.

Then again understandable I'm probably being a bit unfair to Yasuna. After all she didn't exactly plan her problem and I'm probably making it sound like it was a crime for Yasuna to win. Again I don't think it is a crime. However honestly they could have found a way for Yasuna to win and not make it feel like she won mainly because she "needed" Hazumu more.

[ati]

Yeah I feel sorry for Yasuna for that too but is she win?
I have problem about the last scene. What was that mean?

[Kaoru Chujo]

Yasuna had the "advantage" of her need. Tomari had the advantage of a childhood promise and long friendship. It was even.

The feeling Hazumu has for Yasuna is romantic love. The need is part of it, but he loved her before he knew about that. This kind of love may just trump the childhood-friend-tinged love H has for T.

But at the end, Yasuna was about to say something important to Hazumu. We'll find out what it was when the DVD comes out. Could it be that she feels confident in H's love and sees that his loving T won't interfere with it? Probably not, but maybe.

I agree that H had shown so much love for T that the choice of Y seemed sudden and unexplained. This series was generally pretty well constructed, but that may have been a problem.

There is definitely a selfish side to Yasuna, as there is to most of us. She wants and needs H. Considering that "all's fair in love and war," she was quite fair to T, I thought. But T is simply a wonderful, wonderful character. It's hard to sympathize with anyone but her.

The story in the manga is now substantially different from the anime. Dynasty Scans is continuing to bring out scanlated chapters.

[tun]

Originally Posted by ati

Yeah I feel sorry for Yasuna for that too but is she win?
I have problem about the last scene. What was that mean?

I honestly think Yasuna letting go of Hazumu's hand and basically implying that they need to talk about something is a good indication that maybe Yasuna is having second thoughts. And the scene at the end where Hazumu is jumping on the rocks across the river might also have happened a while after that Yasuna scene and could possibly lead to a Tomari/Hazumu ending.

[BBOvenGuy]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

But at the end, Yasuna was about to say something important to Hazumu. We'll find out what it was when the DVD comes out. Could it be that she feels confident in H's love and sees that his loving T won't interfere with it? Probably not, but maybe.

Yeah, I finally got a look at the raw, and that ending completely threw me. It sounded like the last word Yasuna said to Hazumu was the same word that Hazumu said to Tomari after jumping across all the rocks, but that may have just been my hearing. What were they saying?

Originally Posted by tun

I honestly think Yasuna letting go of Hazumu's hand and basically implying that they need to talk about something is a good indication that maybe Yasuna is having second thoughts.

Is it common for an "extra" episode to come along and basically undo or overturn what the regular run of the series did? The idea of Yasuna having "second thoughts" doesn't work for me - go through all that angst and blindness and pushing Hazumu to make a commitment, and then say, "Just kidding!" I don't think so.

This is one of those days when I think I should really take up Japanese...

[Xabin]

Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy

Yeah, I finally got a look at the raw, and that ending completely threw me. It sounded like the last word Yasuna said to Hazumu was the same word that Hazumu said to Tomari after jumping across all the rocks, but that may have just been my hearing. What were they saying?

After letting go of Hazumu's hand, all she says "Hazumu-kun, ano ne..." which only implies that she's going to tell her something, but we don't get to hear what.

[BBOvenGuy]

Originally Posted by Xabin

After letting go of Hazumu's hand, all she says "Hazumu-kun, ano ne..." which only implies that she's going to tell her something, but we don't get to hear what.

So presumably in the next scene, Hazumu is going to tell Tomari something, too. And that's after having gone all the way across the rocks.

Hmmm... You could certainly make a case for thinking that Yasuna has decided to invite Tomari back into the relationship, or for that matter, that Yasuna has changed her mind and decided to give Hazumu back to Tomari - or for all we know, Hazumu's next words to Tomari will be "Yasuna and I are running off to Massachusetts and getting married!" Those evil producers, torturing us like that.

So what's the typical length of time before a DVD containing an "extra" episode comes out? How long should we expect to be tortured for?

[Vexx]

Since its only 12 eps..... it depends on the evilness of their DVD release ... 2 eps per disk? 4 eps? all 12? Releases are usually monthly...
(goes to look and see what can be found)