Attack on Titan - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[JamJackEvo]

Link to the portion of the response to Genjichan, but beware it contains massive manga spoiler.

Originally Posted by monir

- Your government is corrupt.

Not just corrupt, some people in the seats are just plain incompetent. The political voting in the Philippines has turned into some popularity contest as of late. I still can not believe that one of our former Presidents (one who had been almost impeached due to corruption, but ending up resigning due to riots and protests) ran again for President and ALMOST WON.

Alongside the fact that some voters seem to have the attention span of a bird (or just like selling off their votes, maybe), nobody votes smart people anymore. If you're not famous, you're not on the majority's radar.

P.S. I hope no one will mind this little debate here considering the thread seem to have dried up already. Feel free to post your thoughts with this topic or any other related to this episode anytime you want without paying any mind to our skirmish.

Hey, at least it's something to keep us occupied while waiting for the next episode.

[n120cky]

Originally Posted by Hmm....

This is one minor detail I notice that is different from manga.
Since the manga have no color I have no way to confirm what flare color they actually fired.

But I am pretty sure they simply fired a yellow flare in manga, a generic "Emergency, we can't continue mission" signal. That was why they are so worry that nobody will get that it mean "We stuck here please bring us some horses". Not to mention their signal would be only one among numerous yellow flares flying all over right flank at that time.

Really? So I really forgot what happen after all....

[zRichard]

Originally Posted by BoyTitan

Spoiler for MuvLuv specific detail inside:

BETA still function as a hive mind and don't use battle tactics like human titans do.They don't have to worry about being out smarted which is the case with human titans much more of a dangerous scenario.

Spoiler for MuvLuv Alternative SPOILERS:

The BETA used several strategies in all post-Sadogashima battles.

On the forest topic:

Why would they move to the forest if the have been well for 100 years behind the walls? This forest of giant trees seems a unique place inside the boundaries of wall Maria, we don't know if there are similar forest.

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

I don't think there has been a fire (due nature calamity) in that area since all the trees are all big.... and healthy..

Just to put a little information for this part of the discussion, the Giant Forest they are going to appears to be giant redwood trees. As far as I can remember about the giant redwoods, they germinate through fires, as in, they grow, expand, and thrive through forest fires. As far as how those forest fires start, it is through lightning storms. Other times, it is through campfires. So how are they going to have light at night on top of those trees? Yeah, with torches, and imagine what could happen with torches on trees.

Even though the trees will withstand the fires, the plants around them will burn out. Assuming people are living in those trees, if the fire does not kill them, then the smoke will.

Also, have you been in the forest at night? You can barely see 2 feet in front of you, not to mention trying to swing from tree to tree with 3D gear. Hunting at night? First, it's not easy to find a deer at night. Next, bears, wolves, snakes, and other natural predators are much better equipped to kill you at night. As far as titans are concerned, there is evidence that normal titans slow down (not stop completely) at night, but there is no evidence that abnormals will do the same. Also, remember that titans sense humans somehow and heads towards them.

[Anh_Minh]

The captive 7m class was active for hours after sundown, so, yeah. Even if they stop hunting you at some point, you only have a few hours of relative safety. (And for all we know, the 15m class have even more reserves...)

And I don't even know why they'd want to go to that goddamn forest in the first place. You tie down hundreds of soldiers, lose a few to various accidents (night time supply convoy? Even with the titans out of the picture, you'll lose men to simple falls) and combat, and for what? The privilege to kill a negligible number of titans?

What you need to do is take and hold land. If what you're doing doesn't help do that, don't bother doing it. (I might put supply caches in the forest, for example. I wouldn't waste my time trying to hold it.)

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

The captive 7m class was active for hours after sundown, so, yeah. Even if they stop hunting you at some point, you only have a few hours of relative safety. (And for all we know, the 15m class have even more reserves...)

And I don't even know why they'd want to go to that goddamn forest in the first place. You tie down hundreds of soldiers, lose a few to various accidents (night time supply convoy? Even with the titans out of the picture, you'll lose men to simple falls) and combat, and for what? The privilege to kill a negligible number of titans?

What you need to do is take and hold land. If what you're doing doesn't help do that, don't bother doing it. (I might put supply caches in the forest, for example. I wouldn't waste my time trying to hold it.)

Didn't they say they were establishing a supply route to the outer wall? Is that what they were doing? Stashing supply caches in forests in the intervals?

[lateraldeath]

I'm a manga reader. At first I thought they were going to end this season at the end of the expedition. But with the pacing of each ep that comes out, it seems like they might go a bit behind. I could understand the reason but I just don't see how they can end it cleanly and I fear a detraction ending from the manga like Claymore did.

I suppose knowing WIT I wouldn't be surprised if they end the season at a huge manga based cliff hanger, though I've never seen an anime do that.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by lateraldeath

I suppose knowing WIT I wouldn't be surprised if they end the season at a huge manga based cliff hanger, though I've never seen an anime do that.

Not a manga adaption, but still, Code Geass S1 ended on a HUGE cliffhanger.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by monir

Question: Can you give an idea of the structural configuration about how those detachments are built? Are those buildings, barracks, large camps, fenced area etc? Surely they aren't living on trees, are they?

Detachments in ours aren't like those you guys have in US.... We don't have helipads, unlimited internet, concrete roads, ample of food supply and good friendly neighbors.

As I inquired from my sources... A detachment is around 1000 sqm (pretty small) with 3 line perimeter fence ( wood, rusty wires etc),guarded by merely platoon size group (20-21 men), with two 60 machine gun and one mortar, with rations every 15 days ( just enough supplies for 15 days) either being drop by chopper or delivered by another platoon to the area. So wisely you have to be resourceful in getting food from another source... wild chicken or wild boars....or trade wiit locals.... if possible....

Doesn't this remind your own situation at home where city dwellers maintain some semblance of peace because the army is taking the rebel on in those mountainous region?

I think its better tha rebels actually always knocking at you city gates... its pretty annoying and will put helpless citizens in fear.... They manage to hold the Titans with the massive fortification.. I think its time for them to expand and bring the battle away from the city....

Liar!

Whatever.

My question is to you: how is living in the forest more efficient at fighting these titans than in the open space?

Which is better, using the 3D gear on open plains (pretty obvious) or high forested terrain?

I bet Levy will kill you if you recommend fighting Titans on horseback,, Yeeha!!!?

if the government isn't willing to put out steady supply to these best of the best soldiers who are risking their neck to fight the titans, what exactly is the incentive to fight them to begin with?

Relying one source of food without thinking of alternative source when in the front line is not a smart idea for a unit which is supposedly train to fight way, way, way away from home.....

Why would the government keep an army around if all their surviving skill are good for saving themselves rather than the body of government who hired/organized the army?

Because they value their own lives....

Why would these elite soldiers want to engage titans when they are so versed in survival techniques and the goal is to survive?

Is survival training that hard??? And why are they fighting...isn't it to survive by any means so they could continue fight and survive....

The best victory is the one that is acquired without throwing a single fist, isn't it?

So diplomacy is more effective in dealing with Titans? If they can talk that is...

[Chiaki_chan]

megami Christa

[lateraldeath]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Not a manga adaption, but still, Code Geass S1 ended on a HUGE cliffhanger.

mm ok, i lied. I've seen code geass so that's true i guess, it was a big cliff hanger. Though R2 did come out less than a year later so people didn't have to wait too long. SnK fans wouldn't gets this luxury of a fast second season unfortunately.

[Kaizokugami]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

Is survival training that hard???

Eren mentioned (can't remember which episode for the life of me) that some fellow trainees did actually die during their training, so at least in the SnK universe the training is harsh enough that you could die. I imagine that it's quite rare though, but we've never seen an estimate of how many trainees die during training and I doubt we ever will.

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

And why are they fighting...isn't it to survive by any means so they could continue fight and survive....

If you're talking about the Corps they're fighting to set a foothold for humanity beyond the walls and learn more about titans. It's not going very well though.

As for the survival part...as Eren so eloquently put it: they're training to get away from the titans, not to fight them. Then you have the ones who are "suicidal" and join the Corps.

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

They manage to hold the Titans with the massive fortification..

Except they don't anymore. The Colossal Titan has destroyed their gates twice and the Armored Titan has destroyed one, the latter ending up in humanity losing all the territory inside Wall Maria. That and convenient boulders like the one in Trost are hardly lying around for the picking.

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

I think its time for them to expand and bring the battle away from the city....

That's what they've been trying to do for years with the Corps, but they haven't been successful thus far. Heck, the commander guy in the first episode even went as far as to say they haven't learned anything new about the titans at all.

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

Which is better, using the 3D gear on open plains (pretty obvious) or high forested terrain?

Obviously the latter, but that still doesn't make a base of operations in the trees any less disadvantageous due to aforementioned issues. Resupplying would be the biggest issue due to titans being "drawn" to big concentrations of humans. Hunting just wouldn't be enough to sustain the troops in such an environment, what with the constant threat of the titans. They would more than likely get surrounded by titans which would result in them having nowhere to go and no means of resupplying, thus it'd end up with everyone dying in one way or another. Waste of lives and resources. Well, people already think that the Corps are wasting precious resources but I hope you get my point.

My apologies for butting in Monir, my debaters spirit was on fire.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Kaizokugami

Obviously the latter,

You serious???

but that still doesn't make a base of operations in the trees any less disadvantageous due to aforementioned issues. Resupplying would be the biggest issue due to titans being "drawn" to big concentrations of humans. Hunting just wouldn't be enough to sustain the troops in such an environment, what with the constant threat of the titans.

I think survival training is how to survive in the wilderness. I never said you have to gather for all of you comrades... well that's an option... I think you have to gather on your own....

..and another thing.. it's not survival training on how to become a corp is what Monir and I were talking about... it's about survival training being a necessity of a elite group knowing they are well feed and depends only on food from cities..

Let me sum the discussion from the previous....

1. I think its advantageous to make a based in the forest because of the height of the trees plus Titans don't climb trees.

2. Monir says its disadvantageous due to resupplying problems because of presence of Titans,,, oh...

3. I say that an elite corp would have less problem because they know about survival training ( getting food from any source as possible). Plus resupplying could be done at night.

4. Monir says why would they need to train about survival since the city are providing them food. Plus not all Titans sleeps.

5. I say "AT LEAST...what would happen then if the food supply is cut... can't they find food on their own... ?

6. Monirs says ????????

[darklegends8]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Not a manga adaption, but still, Code Geass S1 ended on a HUGE cliffhanger.

I would have been okay with Code Geass ending at season 1, that is prior to viewing season 2.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

You serious???



I think survival training is how to survive in the wilderness. I never said you have to gather for all of you comrades... well that's an option... I think you have to gather on your own....

..and another thing.. it's not survival training on how to become a corp is what Monir and I were talking about... it's about survival training being a necessity of a elite group knowing they are well feed and depends only on food from cities..

Let me sum the discussion from the previous....

1. I think its advantageous to make a based in the forest because of the height of the trees plus Titans don't climb trees.

It's a tactical advantage. Strategically, it brings you nothing. It just costs you men.

2. Monir says its disadvantageous due to resupplying problems because of presence of Titans,,, oh...

3. I say that an elite corp would have less problem because they know about survival training ( getting food from any source as possible). Plus resupplying could be done at night.

Even if they have "less problems", they'll still have problems. And for what?

[mnedel]

I suppose knowing WIT I wouldn't be surprised if they end the season at a huge manga based cliff hanger, though I've never seen an anime do that.

Try watching Berserk anime before reading the manga like me Thats the greatest cliff hanger in history.

[Hmm....]

One thing I find amusing about this forest base debate.

If you guys rewatch Episode 1, you will see the recon corp went all gung-ho about capture "this place" as human first outside base of operation. Where did they engage the titan at that time ? Yes, in the giant treee forest.
It seem the recon corp did plan to do exactly what Genjichan suggested afterall.

However later on in the episode when they come back beaten, the population belittle them and said exactly the same thing as monir and other about wasting their tax money blah blah blah....

The author really have all this thought out, doesn't he ? lol

[lateraldeath]

Originally Posted by Hmm....

One thing I find amusing about this forest base debate.

If you guys rewatch Episode 1, you will see the recon corp went all gung-ho about capture "this place" as human first outside base of operation. Where did they engage the titan at that time ? Yes, in the giant treee forest.
It seem the recon corp did plan to do exactly what Genjichan suggested afterall.

However later on in the episode when they come back beaten, the population belittle them and said exactly the same thing as monir and other about wasting their tax money blah blah blah....

The author really have all this thought out, doesn't he ? lol

The ways being stuck at home as a kid can help their imaginations when they grow up .

[Leo_Otaku]

Originally Posted by lateraldeath

I just don't see how they can end it cleanly and I fear a detraction ending from the manga like Claymore did.

Oh god I hope not that ending was so damn horrible -_-. I imagine with the popularity they will fund a second season. I mean I just saw volume 11 beating out One Piece in the ranking so I hope they do more and do not pull a Claymore.

[Harangue]

Levi is such a badass, but...what the hell happened near the end there? Anyone else notice that? He clearly got smashed out of the way, blood splatter and everything, and then suddenly he was right back on his horse, even surprising the other riders.