Dating

[BOOKGLUTTON]

Originally Posted by poopsicle

Hi, I met my friend about 3 years ago in high school grade 10. Over time I had fallen for her, I thought it would be a good thing but it caused so much stress and problems for me. She knows I like her but we're still friends and chat normally, but no matter how hard I try to just have casual conversations or bring her somewhere to show her something she would think I'm up to something (like trying to ask her out in a safe spot). With her thinking like that it creates tension, and there's a lot of awkward silence between us sometimes. It got to the point where when I'm seen with her people tease us about it even though we're friends. I don't really blame her for anything, all i wanted was for her to treat me like a regular friend like how I treat her. I was planning to just stop talking to her for the rest of high school, basically like I never knew her. I don't think she would mind because she hates it when people tease her . So what I'm doing is it a good decision?

These problems don't need solving. They eventually stop in 3 months or so if you don't keep on asking them to stop. As for her being skiddish around you, I suggest going with her on group activities and literally ignoring her, or just ignoring her completely. She may actually miss the attention you gave her.

[H23]

Originally Posted by BOOKGLUTTON

I suggest going with her on group activities and literally ignoring her, or just ignoring her completely.

that works.. and then 90% of the time they'll text/message you on msn later on pissed off for doing that

[Zero Shinohara]

Just thought I'd drop by to say a few wise words of advice.

Ditch 3D and give-in to the loveliness of 2D.

- Zero. Braindamaged, since 2003.

[Samari]

Another strange situation. I have a tutor that I see to gain assistance in my figure painting class at school. She also attended my school and graduated a few years ago. She's really pretty and extremely nice and great to talk to. We don't just talk about my academics when we meet up, but other stuff as well.

But there's a problem. First and foremost she's my tutor and she's a little older than I am. I'm 21 and she's in her mid to late twenties I believe. Well, not that that is a problem necessarily, but...I just feel that we're too "different". Second, she has a boyfriend. Third, I just got out of that situation with that other girl a couple of weeks ago. And finally I think I'm starting to really like her, but at the same time I don't want to. Just because she's my tutor and I want to keep everything professional and not say or do something I'm going to regret. In other words, I would like to decrease the intensity of my apparent infatuation.

Regarding my attraction to her, I'm afraid it might be the result of something that I'm not sure how to cure. You see, being in the bay area there are a lot of pretty women. And I just moved into a major city in San Francisco. Now I'm closer to school and I see tons of gorgeous looking women every single day. Literally. It's hard to stay focused on other aspects of my life when you see couples here left and right. I think I would want to be in a relationship right now, but at the same time I'm not sure if I would have time for one. I'm quite a busy guy. Plus, I've lost a little of my confidence since my last attempt which didn't go so well. So I'm quite apprehensive when talking to girls I might be interested in...but I tend to do it anyways. And when I do I find myself maybe talking to much and getting "desperate" in my speech and demeanor. I feel that there's a constant "desperate" side of me trying to get a quick girlfriend or some nonsense like that and it looks like something is telling me to talk to every single pretty girl.

So in conclusion I'm not sure how to approach not only the situation with my tutor, but everything I've experienced in the two months I've been here with what I just described. I'd like to maybe have a relationship, but I also want to stay focused on my schoolwork...if something did come up and I got into a relationship I guess I wouldn't mind trying to balance both. I don't want to make any desperate decisions to try to get a girl though which I believe I do at times. I feel terrible afterwards at the person I've become...like someone with low confidence. But at the same time...it seems hard to ignore these pretty women. I guess it's the pressure from being surrounded by so many couples all the time. Does anyone have any suggestions?

[BOOKGLUTTON]

Originally Posted by Samari

BOYFRIEND

NO. I seriously saw that and stopped.

Originally Posted by H23

that works.. and then 90% of the time they'll text/message you on msn later on pissed off for doing that

Yeah, but she literally sounds like she doesn't want to have anything to do with him though.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by BOOKGLUTTON

NO. I seriously saw that and stopped.

He can do what he wants, but in that kind of situations I still think the person has to think abouy that "if I had a boyfriend/girlfriend, would I like to see the other men/women trying to pick him/her up even when they know that he/she is in couple". Me, it's a no no.

[pinkbubbles2212]

To Samari

Ok... Here's a solution...

Don't just go out with any girl you find pretty... I mean you said youself that you feel really guilty because you think you just want any girl as your girlfriend... Seriously... Girl's don't like it either when all a guy is interested in is having a bit of arm-candy... I recently went out with a guy and for the whole month or so I endured the relationship, all he kept going on about was how happy he was to have a girlfriend... Not how happy he was to be with me. And it kinda hurt alot... I never told any of my friends cause I knew they would say I was being silly. But I wasn't. So no I have a boyfriend who actually does want to be with me.. I know that for a fact.. Cause he's constantly telling me how much he likes me. And what makes it better is that we have a connection.

So what I'm saying is, don't just go with any girl... Try it with your tutor, tell her how you feel. Cuase see when you actually have a connection to someone it works alot better than constantly trying to find ground that you both can work on. Especially if your only in the relationship cause it's a relationship.

I'm sooo much happy now I have a guy who I know genuinly loves me and not the fact he's got a pretty girl hanging off his arm....

Hope this helps...

PinkBubbles xxx

[LeoXiao]

I've never had a girlfriend before. To me it seems like dating is a waste of time, not something that I would want to spend lots of time on. Why? Because the kind of conversations that couples often have are generally very boring. I have a friend who is good at getting into relationships but they invariably end up lasting no more than a couple months at best and he's always sorta depressed for a while afterward.

If I want to get into a romantic relationship with a girl I'll get married. And even if I do that she would have to be a good friend as well, not just a girlfriend (in the sense that you get involved with her and leave after two months).

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by LeoXiao

I've never had a girlfriend before. To me it seems like dating is a waste of time, not something that I would want to spend lots of time on. Why? Because the kind of conversations that couples often have are generally very boring. I have a friend who is good at getting into relationships but they invariably end up lasting no more than a couple months at best and he's always sorta depressed for a while afterward.

If I want to get into a romantic relationship with a girl I'll get married. And even if I do that she would have to be a good friend as well, not just a girlfriend (in the sense that you get involved with her and leave after two months).

Hmm, mind answering me a few questions?

1: Your age (or age range, like 18-20, 21-23 etc)
2: Your religion (if you do have faith)

I should dig a few posts back on Ledgem's posts on how dating can help with finding the person who's right for you.
It's not simply just to have a good time with someone else, but you also learn about what you can and cannot tolerate with girls through different experiences.
As with most things in life, experiences good and bad build character to a person. They have more information to base choices on (though the experiences alone shouldn't totally set future decisions).
Which is what you seem to be doing sadly; just cause of what you've seen with your friend, you've ended up with some kinda jaded, negative outlook to it while you've never had a girlfriend (or you've simply tuned yourself out from it, because of what you "think" will happen).
You're selling yourself short basically for the girl you'd like to marry someday, but this is why i asked the two first questions, as i shouldn't assume everyone lives in a 'western' sense of free dating in their teens or early 20's until they find the special person in time.

A girlfriend != (does not equal) someone to mess with for 2-6 months.

A girlfriend is (or in most cases) your best friend.
A girlfriend can ground you.
A girlfriend can compliment you (in similar ways or oppisite ways)
A girlfriend can support you.
A girlfriend can be your strength as you are hers (keep it two way)

A girlfriend is usually the stage between 'friends' and 'wife' (short of arranged marriages), so don't think of having one as some kind of trivial, flimsy thing.

How a relationship is defined rests on the individuals for most part. If you both share a similar set of ideas and desires and goals concerning relationships, you'll both work hard for it to be fufilled that way, rather than adapting to "typical" relationships that you may see around you.

Like most things is life "An experience is what you make of it".

[LeoXiao]

I'm 16. That probably explains a lot. I'm not of any particular religion but belief in higher order and divinity is important to me.

A girlfriend is usually the stage between 'friends' and 'wife' (short of arranged marriages), so don't think of having one as some kind of trivial, flimsy thing.

Hmm... well here at school "girlfriend/boyfriend" is defined as "trivial, flimsy thing." I guess that from what you are saying I would be okay with a girlfriend (your definition), because "trivial and flimsy" is what I was thinking of when I posted.

A girlfriend is (or in most cases) your best friend.
A girlfriend can ground you.
A girlfriend can compliment you (in similar ways or oppisite ways)
A girlfriend can support you.
A girlfriend can be your strength as you are hers (keep it two way)

That sounds like someone who I would be content with in marriage. In that case the application of my definition of girlfriend doesn't work anymore.

[Mashda2k6]

Ok I thought I'd ask you guys about my problem...


So there is this girl that I have a long history with...like the whole elementary school part we've "loved" eachother, if you can call it that. When 7th grade started we were in the same school and she asked if I loved her and my msn and stuff so then we started "dating" if that's what you can call it, again. After a while we broke of mainly because of my stupidity, ignorance and immatureness, I realized this later on though. Again on 8th grade I asked her out and then we started dating again but yet again after a while we broke up, though I was the same as I was at 7th grade but this time she had a crush on another guy and said we couldn't date anymore. Now then at 9th grade we we're just friends and stuff, not really talking IRL but MSN, anyhow her best friend who she's neighbour and best friends like 10 yrs annoyed me by 'kind of' talking shit behind my back about me so I blocked her on MSN. Afterwards the girl I had dated twice with blocked me. So that's the history, now to the "problem".


So after that I haven't talked to either of them, no contact or anything, atm I'm first grade of high school(16yrs old) and the girl I used to date went to another school. Just by coincidence I happened to see her on bus like three times on the same week and now I have strangely started to think about her much, at nights I've been like one hour trying to sleep but just thinking about her.

So this is what I wanted to ask: does this mean I have a new crush on her or smth? Or do I just want to be her friend and talk to her again or is this just temporary matter I'm experiencing? Or now that I've realized my past mistakes, I want to show my better side? Or perhaps something else?


thanks in advance

[harmonious]

Originally Posted by Mystique

Hmm, mind answering me a few questions?

1: Your age (or age range, like 18-20, 21-23 etc)
2: Your religion (if you do have faith)

I should dig a few posts back on Ledgem's posts on how dating can help with finding the person who's right for you.
It's not simply just to have a good time with someone else, but you also learn about what you can and cannot tolerate with girls through different experiences.
As with most things in life, experiences good and bad build character to a person. They have more information to base choices on (though the experiences alone shouldn't totally set future decisions).
Which is what you seem to be doing sadly; just cause of what you've seen with your friend, you've ended up with some kinda jaded, negative outlook to it while you've never had a girlfriend (or you've simply tuned yourself out from it, because of what you "think" will happen).
You're selling yourself short basically for the girl you'd like to marry someday, but this is why i asked the two first questions, as i shouldn't assume everyone lives in a 'western' sense of free dating in their teens or early 20's until they find the special person in time.

A girlfriend != (does not equal) someone to mess with for 2-6 months.

A girlfriend is (or in most cases) your best friend.
A girlfriend can ground you.
A girlfriend can compliment you (in similar ways or oppisite ways)
A girlfriend can support you.
A girlfriend can be your strength as you are hers (keep it two way)

A girlfriend is usually the stage between 'friends' and 'wife' (short of arranged marriages), so don't think of having one as some kind of trivial, flimsy thing.

How a relationship is defined rests on the individuals for most part. If you both share a similar set of ideas and desires and goals concerning relationships, you'll both work hard for it to be fufilled that way, rather than adapting to "typical" relationships that you may see around you.

Like most things is life "An experience is what you make of it".

I would say a girlfriend can't do any of that because such a relationship is too volatile in nature. The couple isnt't dedicated enough to each other to get married, yet somehow still want the benefits of such a relationship. Odds are, what will happen is that the relationship will calm down as all relationships do, but the couple won't have children to solidify their relationship.

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by LeoXiao

I'm 16. That probably explains a lot. I'm not of any particular religion but belief in higher order and divinity is important to me.
Hmm... well here at school "girlfriend/boyfriend" is defined as "trivial, flimsy thing." I guess that from what you are saying I would be okay with a girlfriend (your definition), because "trivial and flimsy" is what I was thinking of when I posted.

At sweet 16, it probably is. (This is why I asked how old you were)
6 years ago you were 10, 6 years later you'll be 22.
You're only just about beginning to live life, so there's plenty to see and explore that doesn't concern girlfriends.
I guess during teenage time, relationships will be trivial because everyone is going through volatile periods of their lives and their own sense of character. It's easy to get jaded, but don't permantly close your eyes to it all, there may be a special someone who'll grace your path in some years to come

That sounds like someone who I would be content with in marriage. In that case the application of my definition of girlfriend doesn't work anymore.

A "Girlfriend" isn't simply defined to what you see around you. Just keep that in mind that as you get older and people mature, relationships of all kinds take on a different aspect and nature.
If at the present moment it all seems yucky, then at least have some hope for the future.
But you're too young to be so bitter, live a little and remain positive

Originally Posted by harmonious

I would say a girlfriend can't do any of that because such a relationship is too volatile in nature. The couple isnt't dedicated enough to each other to get married, yet somehow still want the benefits of such a relationship. Odds are, what will happen is that the relationship will calm down as all relationships do, but the couple won't have children to solidify their relationship.

If you mean at the age that leoxiao is at, then perhaps so.
If you mean generally for people in their mid-20's or higher then I disagree.
A girlfriend can do those things as much as a boyfriend can do those things for her, that term isn't limited to people aged 21 or under.
Also, some may already enter another relationship with a child from a previous relationship and find that the person they are attracted to suits them well for companionship. They can't be classified as friends, if the couple act on feelings and physical attraction, thus they become boyfriend/girlfriend.

There are too many variables to define relationships concerning various ages and cultures, but the examples i gave before are of a 'best case' senario. If you're with somone who is those things, then you're blessed and yes, relationships do settle down and you find you're with this person near 24/7 for 5, 10, 15 years.
You need to at least enjoy each others company on a friendship level as well as a partner level, I'd think

[harmonious]

Originally Posted by Mystique

If you mean at the age that leoxiao is at, then perhaps so.
If you mean generally for people in their mid-20's or higher then I disagree.
A girlfriend can do those things as much as a boyfriend can do those things for her, that term isn't limited to people aged 21 or under.
Also, some may already enter another relationship with a child from a previous relationship and find that the person they are attracted to suits them well for companionship. They can't be classified as friends, if the couple act on feelings and physical attraction, thus they become boyfriend/girlfriend.

There are too many variables to define relationships concerning various ages and cultures, but the examples i gave before are of a 'best case' senario. If you're with somone who is those things, then you're blessed and yes, relationships do settle down and you find you're with this person near 24/7 for 5, 10, 15 years.
You need to at least enjoy each others company on a friendship level as well as a partner level, I'd think

Sure, you can do it, but such relationships are doomed to fail no matter the age of the couple. The idea of such a relationship is inherently flawed because of a lack of dedication. Both marriage and children are anchors for relationships and both need to come early for the relationship to be cemented. To have neither for a long period of time is showing a lack of dedication and the relationship will become strained or the couple will drift apart.

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by harmonious

Sure, you can do it, but such relationships are doomed to fail no matter the age of the couple. The idea of such a relationship is inherently flawed because of a lack of dedication. Both marriage and children are anchors for relationships and both need to come early for the relationship to be cemented. To have neither for a long period of time is showing a lack of dedication and the relationship will become strained or the couple will drift apart.

Marriage and children are not anchors for relationships, you gotta be kidding with the amount of single mothers i see and have grown up with in my town.
My view will be jaded, but with the amount of divorce rates and the temptation of 'extra marital affairs', kids and marriage sincerely do not hold the weight they used to let's say 50 years back.
Couples or a person in an 'unloved' marriage is most likely to stray simply to fufill their own happiness and restore faith back in themselves.
Whereas on the flipside, i know people who are in relationships for years, i know the basis and chemistry they're founding it on and why they work well together. A lot of those factors are from those examples I gave and believe me they are devoted to each other. They do hope to settle down in time with the kids and marriage, but it's not a present issue for them at the moment.

Kids and marriage require a good financial basis (on the best of cases), something a couple would prefer to work for and simply enjoy their time and lives living as a couple and not parents.
Not being married or not having kids, doesn't mean lack of dedication to each other at all. Rather it gives them more time to focus on each other.
The marriage aspect is the icing on the cake, it seals the relationship and the couple have to work to keep their promises to each other, but hell nowadays after 2-3 years, that seems so weak, you begin to hear of people drifting apart regardless.
Some people (those who are less religious than me) only see marriage as an official ceremony to declare what they are already experiencing (a stable relationship) and don't feel like spending the money for it.
Some women don't wanna have kids (as shocking as it may sound) but are fully devoted to the man they love.
It depends, but somehow if a person is truly unhappy and feels 'trapped' with the marriage and the kids, I doubt that'd stop someone from seeking happiness elsewhere in secret if they really wanted to.
The relationship may still exist and be "cemented" for many years because of the ties, but it'd be based on lies and deceit and more lies.

At least on that aspect, I'll be disagreeing with ya.
Pardon my mini tangent-ness, i guess this is about dating more than the nature of relationships...

[harmonious]

Originally Posted by Mystique

Marriage and children are not anchors for relationships, you gotta be kidding with the amount of single mothers i see and have grown up with in my town.

Single mothers are having children outside of serious relationships.

Originally Posted by Mystique

My view will be jaded, but with the amount of divorce rates and the temptation of 'extra marital affairs', kids and marriage sincerely do not hold the weight they used to let's say 50 years back.

Couples or a person in an 'unloved' marriage is most likely to stray simply to fufill their own happiness and restore faith back in themselves.
Whereas on the flipside, i know people who are in relationships for years, i know the basis and chemistry they're founding it on and why they work well together. A lot of those factors are from those examples I gave and believe me they are devoted to each other. They do hope to settle down in time with the kids and marriage, but it's not a present issue for them at the moment.

Divorce rates are what they are do to how current Western society views relationships. Premarital sex, promiscuity, dating, etc, are all part of this. Feminists call it women's sexual liberation, men consider it normal, but it all is the same disease. Long term relationships are no longer respected or really understood.

Originally Posted by Mystique

Kids and marriage require a good financial basis (on the best of cases), something a couple would prefer to work for and simply enjoy their time and lives living as a couple and not parents.

What is or isn't a "good financial basis" is an opinion, and often simply an excuse. Your right, people want to selfishly live on as they do without regard for anything. Even if what they so thoroughly reject or put off, is actually an advantage to them.

Originally Posted by Mystique

Not being married or not having kids, doesn't mean lack of dedication to each other at all. Rather it gives them more time to focus on each other.

Yes, it is. Marriage or having kids doesn't mean they can't focus on each other. In fact, not getting married is the antithesis of focusing on each other. People are generally selfish creatures, this includes relationships. They aren't not getting married because they want to focus on each other, they are not getting married because they are focusing on themselves. They view the relationship selfishly, as a benefit for themselves alone. Without being married and kids, it is easy for them to simply escape the relationship. They know this, be it consciously or unconsciously.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by harmonious

Divorce rates are what they are do to how current Western society views relationships. Premarital sex, promiscuity, dating, etc, are all part of this. Feminists call it women's sexual liberation, men consider it normal, but it all is the same disease. Long term relationships are no longer respected or really understood.

Oh, just a word about that, I fully agree with you, and I am not a religious person (again I say that because too many people assume that only religious people dislike what the society call "sexual liberation"). But I have still hope that good relationship "from my point of view" still exist. I know at least one couple of my generation. She is 21, he is 25. They married and had a baby recently. What is funny, is that many people criticize them. That "nowadays" it's bad to get married so early in their life, and some people even criticized them because they did a baby. But in fact, what I see, but maybe I'm wrong, is a lot of jaelous people. They are jaelous of their happiness.

I also believe that unbreakable marriages still exist. It's rare but not impossible. And i hope that my friends will have that kind of marriage.

Personally, I don't see relationships as just experiences that you can do one after another "for the fun of it", for me it sounds too much like a game. I don't think that Love is something just funny. But maybe I am wrong to think like that, but anyway, I truly believe in that. And the couple I was talking baout also believe in that. I just hope that someday, I will have a happy life in couple, just like them

[Mystique]

Spoilered for you harmonious.
Seeing as I've a weakness for resisting, lol. If we're gonna continue, I'll bug ya on your public message board on your profile from now on so we can leave this thread be.
(wonder if we can quote on there....)

Spoiler for Spoilered for length and slight tangent-ness of topic:

Originally Posted by harmonious

Single mothers are having children outside of serious relationships.

Not sure what you're getting at there, as basically my argument against your view is that kids and marriage are not anchors for relationships anymore.
When I mentioned single mothers, I'm talking about a good majority of teenage mums (hell even mums in their early 20's) - 1 night, contraception failed and accidental pregnancy occurs and suddenly the fathers are no where to be seen. They skedaddle.
Tell me how kids are an anchor when there are so many young single mothers? That's not to say their relationship wasn't serious (at least on one person's side)
Some men have admitted that they panic at the thought of the sudden responsibility and they feel they're too young, so they run.
You also say that it'd be good for marriage and children to happen earlier so it 'cements' the relationship, again if an individual isn't happy or feels too stressed, what's going to stop them from leaving the relationship?
What's gonna stop them from cheating?

Kids and marriage are ties, but they do not ensure a happy relationship between the adults and they do not secure a couple's total devotion to each other.
If the people are unhappy, those factors become burdens, the adults’ personalities become bitter or negative and kids grow up listening to arguments time and time again.
How is that better? How do domestic situations like that benefit anyone?
I wouldn't mind hearing your opinion on that.
Very often cases of:
'we stayed together because of the kids. We gave it one more try. We thought having a baby would make things better' is often heard, but if the relationship between the adults is damaged, broken or lost, no other element will suddenly and magically make them more devoted to each other than a couple who are merely boyfriend and girlfriend for many years.
(And before I get a bunch of guys getting all defensive, do take into account that within debates, examples most times are not the be all and end all of things).
Here's another case for you in a non-western sense.
In Japan, many middle aged women are divorcing their husbands. They have been faithful wives and dutiful mothers, the kids have grown and left and they realise they have no ties to their husbands anymore. While the relationship was cemented, the devotion between the coupled died.
Where does that leave them?
This article is old, but the situation is still the same now.
BBC article on Japan divorce rates

Divorce rates are what they are do to how current Western society views relationships. Premarital sex, promiscuity, dating, etc, are all part of this. Feminists call it women's sexual liberation, men consider it normal, but it all is the same disease. Long term relationships are no longer respected or really understood.

Is more or less what I said and what you quoted me on, I said that kids and marriage no longer hold the weight they used to 50 years ago, thus they are not anchors for a couple being devoted to each other.
I am talking in a Western sense, but from your sentence just there (and as I was thinking to myself last night) you're probably giving your opinion from a non-western sense, if you don't mind telling me where you were born and raised then I can see better where you're coming from with your belief
To call it a disease isn't quite right. I'm born in a western society where my parents were born and raised in a diff society, thus I’ve grown up bi-cultural in a way. (Home and school were like two diff worlds) I can see the advantages and flaws of both.
While you may look down upon the liberal sense of Western societies, I look down and the same aspects (hence I said I was jaded and mentioned the divorce rates), but I appreciate it too at the same time, since the flipside of the other culture I was brought up in, doesn't have much respect for women or they are simply mothers rather than a wife.
I like the fact that I have the freedom and choice to pursue any career that I want or to be a full time mother if I wanted to and devote myself to my family, but I like that fact that I have a choice and the society that I was raised in offers more choice for women legally and financially than many other countries.
While men still hold most of the top positions in most companies, I sincerely appreciate that how far women have come in that aspect. Naturally there are bad sides to feminism (ladettes, lack of etiquette, lack of basic home skills, rise of female violence, etc)
But it's definitely not all bad and certainly not a disease.

What is or isn't a "good financial basis" is an opinion, and often simply an excuse. Your right, people want to selfishly live on as they do without regard for anything. Even if what they so thoroughly reject or put off, is actually an advantage to them.

Sometimes it is an excuse, but it's a valid one, rather than the tons of kids that grow up in poverty in the UK, in estates and block of flats and end up with a negative, low view of life, get into crime and underachieve at school. Their parents are usually stressed to just about make ends meet thus the living environment isn't so pleasant.
While there may not be the 'perfect' time, there are suitable moments.

Yes, it is. Marriage or having kids doesn't mean they can't focus on each other. In fact, not getting married is the antithesis of focusing on each other. People are generally selfish creatures, this includes relationships. They aren't not getting married because they want to focus on each other, they are not getting married because they are focusing on themselves. They view the relationship selfishly, as a benefit for themselves alone. Without being married and kids, it is easy for them to simply escape the relationship. They know this, be it consciously or unconsciously.

Like I said, with the examples of unloved marriages (which you've conveniently not quoted me on)
Kids and marriages are no longer the anchors they used to be. The ties that may bind you to a relationship become burdens, they become traps. In most cases since the kids aren't at fault, adults will mutually divorce to keep the mess to a minimum or the mothers will take the kids and live separately.
Humans are selfish regardless, hence why I mentioned extra-marital affairs. Divorces in the west are also taking on a different nature lately. They're seen as the means to dissolve the relationship on a legal basis (and to dissolve the tie to each other) but that's usually cause there is no tie between the couple anymore.
So they may remain 'friends' or just on a neutral level with each other for the sake of the kids, but the devotion to each other is gone.
They aren't getting married because they wanna focus on each other, which usually means in a couple sense, their devotion to each other is there. While marriage may not take that sense away, kids sometimes can.
Both mum and dad work, mum sorts out kids in the morning, they go to school, dad has left the home.
Both come home, kids are fed and bathed. Mum cleans up, sorts out lunch and clothes for kids the next day.
Kids go to bed, the couple have a few hours if that of chill time but need to sleep.
Next day, same story, rinse and repeat.
A couple can get caught up with family life and work that they forget to maintain the relationship between each other and that's usually the cause for it to weaken and breakdown over many years. Naturally not everyone is the same, but it seems to be a common factor over here.
Each society differs, naturally my views and opinions are mainly based on the UK, thus I'm simply stating what I’ve seen and heard and noticed in the last few decades.
The media question the same things here, those over 60 often tell me the same things at work, but that just seems to be the way society is progressing.
Kids and marriage no long hold the weight to anchor a stable, happy relationship for many many years, for reasons I've stated in last two posts of mine.

If a person wants to seek comfort in the arms of someone else, most times they'll do it whether their married or not. The only thing with kids and marriage is it'll be done in secret.
If a couple want to remain devoted and true to each other, it'll be done whether they're married, got kids or haven't got either.

@ Narona
I did relate to the quote you mentioned above regarding feminism and stuff. And yes, while you're right that some of us think settling down around 21 or so feels 'too early' is because for most of us it is.
A majority of men and women at 21 would be full time students at uni or college, trying to work hard for their careers and dreams or working full time and simply enjoying their own company and desires.
Naturally some people's dreams involve simply having a family to look after and making that priority number one.
For others, that priority is to come later in life as there's always that 'what if' factor that sometimes niggles people once they have responsibilities of being parents, wives/husbands and have a morgage to pay.
It's not to say those who express surprise at people settling down in their early 20's are bitter or jealous, at least for me, i wish them well if they can be together happily for decades to come.
I am a feminist, not the bra-bashing, male hating kind (they annoy me), but the kind who can look back at history over the last 300-400 years, then look at the 70's, then look at the choices I've been blessed with as a young female raised in the UK and can't help but be thankful and use as many opportunities as possible.
If that means setting kids and family aside for now, so be it and I think many others feels the same way too, but I don't see it a disease as harmonious stated.
The extreme flipside to the sexual and social liberation of women is that, in some other parts of the world, women are seen as merely a means to be sold into prostitution, or they're burdens cause they need dowrys and a good husband who'll be able to support her family too.
Or they're merely beaten or killed for wanting to learn to read, for educating women about their bodies, for trying to build self esteem and inspire other small goals outside of being a mother and a wife.
For many many (perhaps the majority still) they don't even have a choice.

Again, narona if we're to continue, let me bug ya on your profile

Originally Posted by Mashda2k6

So this is what I wanted to ask: does this mean I have a new crush on her or smth? Or do I just want to be her friend and talk to her again or is this just temporary matter I'm experiencing? Or now that I've realized my past mistakes, I want to show my better side? Or perhaps something else?
thanks in advance

For those outside of the US or Finland grade system, mind adding ages to your post?
I assume you were like 10 years old or 11 or so when it started, since you're 16 now.
For most part, it's probably just nostalgia you're experiencing rather than another crush since it's not like you've had a cup of tea and sat down and chatted to her for a while, so you gain a sense of how you've both grown up.
That and she was one of the first peeps you had feelings for, so those are usually the strongest, maybe it's just that aspect which is bothering you at the moment.
You've already dated and split and dated again and split, perhaps it's best to leave it be and focus on the future, rather than the past.

[BOOKGLUTTON]

Originally Posted by Mashda2k6

Ok I thought I'd ask you guys about my problem...


So there is this girl that I have a long history with...like the whole elementary school part we've "loved" eachother, if you can call it that. When 7th grade started we were in the same school and she asked if I loved her and my msn and stuff so then we started "dating" if that's what you can call it, again. After a while we broke of mainly because of my stupidity, ignorance and immatureness, I realized this later on though. Again on 8th grade I asked her out and then we started dating again but yet again after a while we broke up, though I was the same as I was at 7th grade but this time she had a crush on another guy and said we couldn't date anymore. Now then at 9th grade we we're just friends and stuff, not really talking IRL but MSN, anyhow her best friend who she's neighbour and best friends like 10 yrs annoyed me by 'kind of' talking shit behind my back about me so I blocked her on MSN. Afterwards the girl I had dated twice with blocked me. So that's the history, now to the "problem".


So after that I haven't talked to either of them, no contact or anything, atm I'm first grade of high school(16yrs old) and the girl I used to date went to another school. Just by coincidence I happened to see her on bus like three times on the same week and now I have strangely started to think about her much, at nights I've been like one hour trying to sleep but just thinking about her.

So this is what I wanted to ask: does this mean I have a new crush on her or smth? Or do I just want to be her friend and talk to her again or is this just temporary matter I'm experiencing? Or now that I've realized my past mistakes, I want to show my better side? Or perhaps something else?


thanks in advance

I'm gonna just give you a bit of advice, don't rekindle old relationships. You have no idea what she's been thinking about you all this time. For all you know, she may have harbored rage against you (plus she broke up with you right? For all you know she could be dating)

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Mystique

@ Narona
A majority of men and women at 21 would be full time students at uni or college, trying to work hard for their careers and dreams or working full time and simply enjoying their own company and desires.

What I am also trying to say since the last time that I talked to you is that I don't think a person has to have lived a lot of relationship to became a good partner (not married), wife, or husband (if they get married). My mother had only one man in her life and did great imo, as a partner, a lover, a mother, and wife. My friend I was talking about had only one man in her life (her current husband who is also a friend of mine), and she's doing great in her couple and is happy. And I don't think they are so special. On the complete opposite side, a person could have been in 50 relationships and ends alone and bitter of those 50 relationships

As my teacher of philosophy would say, each person seeks happiness, whatever the path, and sometimes the path that the majority takes is not inevitaly the good one for all the people.

Now about the current society, I just point what I see around me. Not a lot of people are "happy" and I don't think they are more happy than the youngers from 30 years ago. Actually I see a lot of people bitter about many things. About Love, bitter about old relationships and stuffs. And sometimes, even sad persons that think that they should not have done some things when they were in their teens. But done it because of medias pressure, friends pressure etc.

Each person lives the life they want and makes choices. I just said that from my point of view, the path I chose is the good one. Maybe I am wrong, but nothing tells me that the other people could not be wrong. So each person think they are right (most of the time) and defend their point of view. I think I already said everything about what I think in my previous posts and PMs

It's not to say those who express surprise at people settling down in their early 20's are bitter or jealous, at least for me, i wish them well if they can be together happily for decades to come.

Since apparently i was not clear enough, It was not "expressing surprise", it was bashing.

I've been blessed with as a young female raised in the UK and can't help but be thankful and use as many opportunities as possible.

Same here but the difference is that even if I saw many opportunities (i don't see that as opportunities but whatever), from my point of view, some are not good and I make the choice to not experience them. That's also one great thing of our generation, "to have the choice to do something", but also "the choice to say No".

And despite that I rejected those opportunities, I am not less happy than the ones who did the opposite. My point was also that. You don't need to be a sheep and do something because 90% of people do it. At least, nothing proved me that I am less happy than them.

The extreme flipside to the sexual and social liberation of women is that, in some other parts of the world, women are seen as merely a means to be sold into prostitution, or they're burdens cause they need dowrys and a good husband who'll be able to support her family too.
Or they're merely beaten or killed for wanting to learn to read, for educating women about their bodies, for trying to build self esteem and inspire other small goals outside of being a mother and a wife.
For many many (perhaps the majority still) they don't even have a choice.

I think you missed the point of what Harmonious was trying to say, but maybe I am wrong, so I prefer to let him reply. I think he didn't make a comparison with those women, nor I did.