Needless

[Homura7]

While we are discussing many things, I think we are forgetting something that I say is quite important, and it's the girl Mengroze added last to his list of experimentals subjects, Toria.

Shouldn't the fact we know her name mean she has some important role to play in the arc? For some reason I think Mengroze made of that girl his strongest subject. Could it be that obscured inhuman being from ch.80 is...

[Sayo A.]

Originally Posted by Avvesione

See, that's what I'm confused about. Here's some of the dialogue from Chapter 78 regarding the wound.

Blade: "Looks like I didn't heal you completely..." (06)

Gido: "Hm? This wound..." (09)
Gido: "How odd... This is from over a week ago, right?" (10)
Eve: "Yeah..."
Gido: "If Doppelganger couldn't heal it completely..."
Blade: "Did she have poison on her hair or something?"

And that's about it. From those two pieces of dialogue, it's hard to say for sure if it was a Needless that attacked her. However, it seems like there was something Blade and Eve were fighting against back then that gave her that injury that wasn't able to heal. Could've been anything, I guess.

I think the dialogue makes it quite clear it was the injury she got from Voras. We just have to assume that Cruz and Saten, like the readers, jumped forward a week in the memory "playback". Could be a perid of time missing from the broken memories, or more likely a function of Memory Guard that allows the boring bits to be skipped over. After all, you wouldn't want to sit through weeks or months of someone's life in real time, would you?

I'm sure we're all still interested in the connection between Eve and Kasumi, even though it's taken a backseat in this arc.

Of course, that connection might not even exist, since it was only mentioned in the anime, IIRC.

[Soji]

Originally Posted by Sayo A.

I think the dialogue makes it quite clear it was the injury she got from Voras. We just have to assume that Cruz and Saten, like the readers, jumped forward a week in the memory "playback". Could be a perid of time missing from the broken memories, or more likely a function of Memory Guard that allows the boring bits to be skipped over. After all, you wouldn't want to sit through weeks or months of someone's life in real time, would you?

You're right, I went to reread chapters 83,77 and the answer is in this chapters
Ch 83 pag 3
Voras:Hm? Where'd the girl go? Oh,did you trade her for this greenhaired one?
Blade: .....Voras if you say one more word...
BladeI'LL crush your heart with my own two hands!!!
Ch 83 pag 4
Voras:What's wrong?
Voras:You seem irritated.
Blade: Eve...Melted!
Ch 83 pag 5
Voras: Hah?What do you mean?
Blade:I mean what I said!
Blade:You must have coated your hair with poison!
Voras:Poison!? What are you talking about!?
Voras: Do You really think I would do something tha cowardly!?
How did I forget about this conversation
And in ch 77 pag 18 it is clear that were her hair to injure Eve.

Of course, that connection might not even exist, since it was only mentioned in the anime, IIRC.

I think we have to wait for this... but Avvensione is right is strange that only the brain remains intact

[Avvesione]

Originally Posted by _kurusu_

While we are discussing many things, I think we are forgetting something that I say is quite important, and it's the girl Mengroze added last to his list of experimentals subjects, Toria.

Shouldn't the fact we know her name mean she has some important role to play in the arc? For some reason I think Mengroze made of that girl his strongest subject. Could it be that obscured inhuman being from ch.80 is...

Well, the names of a lot of minor characters have been given out over the course of the series. Ones that come to mind are Primaria, Secondaria, Yuki, Honoka, Natsuki and Yua... (all Simeon girls lol). But regardless of knowing her name, she was one the who was experimented on by Mengroze after seeing his experiments. I think that's the more important of the details.

Originally Posted by Sayo A.

I think the dialogue makes it quite clear it was the injury she got from Voras. We just have to assume that Cruz and Saten, like the readers, jumped forward a week in the memory "playback". Could be a perid of time missing from the broken memories, or more likely a function of Memory Guard that allows the boring bits to be skipped over. After all, you wouldn't want to sit through weeks or months of someone's life in real time, would you?

I'm still not convinced it was Voras who gave Eve the injury. In this memory world it was Voras who attacked Blade and Eve and gave Eve the injury... but aren't Voras, Strom, and Overlord from another memory altogether? So isn't Voras playing the role of another Needless who attacked Eve, gave her that injury and caused her to melt? This whole process is real confusing.

Originally Posted by Sayo A.

Of course, that connection might not even exist, since it was only mentioned in the anime, IIRC.

I thought it was mentioned in a previous post that there was a connection between the name "Kasumi" and "Neuschwanstein". Or maybe not. But I think it was said that Kasumi, who was originally with the Adam Project, died during one of the Eve Project's experiments.

Originally Posted by Soji

I think we have to wait for this... but Avvensione is right is strange that only the brain remains intact

Yeah, there's something special about Eve's nervous system as it was the only thing to remain after melting. The fact that it is the only original organ of Eve capable of living after this event obviously means there's something important about it. Plus the fact that brains have been brought up time and time again in this series when explaining fragments will certainly help provide clues about Eve's brain.

[Sayo A.]

Originally Posted by Avvesione

I'm still not convinced it was Voras who gave Eve the injury. In this memory world it was Voras who attacked Blade and Eve and gave Eve the injury... but aren't Voras, Strom, and Overlord from another memory altogether? So isn't Voras playing the role of another Needless who attacked Eve, gave her that injury and caused her to melt? This whole process is real confusing.

Ah, I thought you were confused about the timing (since it could look as though the scene back at the church happens immediately after the fight with Voras). Well, maybe Eve got the injury from someone else, or maybe it was still Voras, acting for some group other than Overlord. I don't think it matters, since there didn't seem to be anything special about the injury itself. As we saw, Cruz didn't get hurt from touching Voras's hair.

Although... one thing I did notice (and I'm probably reading too much into this) is that Eve's wound was in the same place as one of the original stigmata of Christ, where his side was pierced by the Spear of Longinus...

I thought it was mentioned in a previous post that there was a connection between the name "Kasumi" and "Neuschwanstein". Or maybe not.

Yes, I remember seeing that the first time I read through the thread. The second time through (after having read the manga and watched the anime, and seen nothing to back that up) I started wondering if it's a mistranslation.

Original text from Japanese Wikipedia:

なお、ディスクによると「ノイシュヴァンシュタイン」と名付けたのも荻葉香澄である。

What Google Translate says:

"However, according to Disk "Neuschwanstein" is also named Kiyoshi Kaoru Ogino leaves."

"Kiyoshi Kaoru Ogino leaves" is basically how it mangles "Kasumi Ogiha" btw. Now, I really don't know how the grammar works here, but what I think this is saying is that Kasumi (who named Blade and Arclight, and there's a similar phrase relating to Blade in a previous paragraph) also gave Eve the name "Neuschwanstein". Maybe js06 can give us the correct reading next time he's around...

[js06]

^
Yup, it just says that Kasumi gave her the name "Neuschwanstein".

It comes from the Disk's Data Bank on the Adam and Eve Projects in Volume 7. It says that Eve's ID was "Eve-N" meaning she was the 14th test subject and that "it seems that" it was Ogiha Kasumi who gave the nickname "Neuschwanstein" for the N.

[Avvesione]

Originally Posted by js06

^
Yup, it just says that Kasumi gave her the name "Neuschwanstein".

It comes from the Disk's Data Bank on the Adam and Eve Projects in Volume 7. It says that Eve's ID was "Eve-N" meaning she was the 14th test subject and that "it seems that" it was Ogiha Kasumi who gave the nickname "Neuschwanstein" for the N.

Thanks, I wasn't able to find any of the information on that when browsing through the thread. Glad that got cleared up.

Kinda funny how Kasumi and Eve like naming everything they see. After all, Kasumi came up with Arclight, Blade, and Neuschwanstein, while Eve came up with Yamada, Uchida, Tanaka, and Ishida. I think I like Kasumi's names better...

[Soji]

Originally Posted by Sayo A.

Ah, I thought you were confused about the timing (since it could look as though the scene back at the church happens immediately after the fight with Voras). Well, maybe Eve got the injury from someone else, or maybe it was still Voras, acting for some group other than Overlord. I don't think it matters, since there didn't seem to be anything special about the injury itself. As we saw, Cruz didn't get hurt from touching Voras's hair.
.

but the situation cruz and eve is different..Cruz was already lying on the ground unlike Eve who was suspended in the air if you notice when blade beats back Voras(when cruz warns him)her hair stretch more tightening Eve's with the result that her clothes will be damaged and that she was injured(ch 77 pag 18).

Kinda funny how Kasumi and Eve like naming everything they see. After all, Kasumi came up with Arclight, Blade, and Neuschwanstein, while Eve came up with Yamada, Uchida, Tanaka, and Ishida. I think I like Kasumi's names better..

True... but after all we like Eve's thas way...if she were not like that many gags would not have happened.

[Sayo A.]

Originally Posted by Avvesione

Kinda funny how Kasumi and Eve like naming everything they see. After all, Kasumi came up with Arclight, Blade, and Neuschwanstein, while Eve came up with Yamada, Uchida, Tanaka, and Ishida. I think I like Kasumi's names better...

And of course, though Kasumi didn't actually think of "Gido", she was certainly fond of using it.

Kasumi's place in the story is starting to look almost as myterious as ANn's at the moment. Does she have an important role to play, or was she just there to provide a little eye candy (and/or some depth for Gido's character)? I mean, if not for her, the whole Adam Project flashback would be just a bunch of serious guys in suits and lab coats...

Is Eve a clone of Kasumi? That's what Saten (I think it was) said in the anime, but that was after it diverged from the manga. I don't think Eve can be just a straight clone of a normal human, but it's not impossible that Kasumi's DNA was somehow incorporated into her. Extra drama for Gido if so.

Is that Kasumi's brain in Eve's body? If Kasumi was still around to give Eve a surname, that's looking unlikely. Have to vote "no" on that one.

[Ynot]

About Kasumi and Eve. This might be me reading too much in stuff or a very bad translation by me, but in Vol 7 page 121 Gido introduces Eve to Blade. When Blade shows no sign of him recognising her, Gido says something like. " You don't remember her?" and later on "ah that's logical because your(eve and blade) memory is sealed"

I have little confidence in my translating skills so i might be completely off here. Can you confirm whether I'm right or not js06? But that could be a big hint towards the whole Kasumi/Eve thing.

Spoiler for needless:

[js06]

^
It translates to:
Gido: So you really don't remember her? You met before the experiment.
Blade: Eh?
Gido: Well...your past memories were sealed...so I guess that's obvious.

[Ca12nag3]

Lots of hints to past events lie in the earlier chapters. But i understand that the pewpew group doesnt want to trans+scan them all.

Like this with the memories sealed. So someone tinkered with his memories before .

[Avvesione]

Originally Posted by Ca12nag3

Lots of hints to past events lie in the earlier chapters. But i understand that the pewpew group doesnt want to trans+scan them all.

Like this with the memories sealed. So someone tinkered with his memories before .

Actually, after Chapter 83 was released, pewpew said they were going back to translate the Simeon Arc (what was left after Certifiably Insane stopped releasing). You'd have to ask Kefit, js06, or Seki for more info on that though.

---

Sorry to break away from the whole Eve/Kasumi discussion but... there's a couple things that are really bothering me now.

First, in Chapter 83 on page 23, Saten calls out to Cruz after being hit by Strom as "Yamada!" Seems simple enough that when he's around trap Cruz that he uses the proper name. But wait a second... how would he know to use Yamada when he's only been around trap Cruz since Chapter 74 on? No one has used Yamada while Saten has around, so how would he know to use the name Yamada? Sure, Saten heard Eve call Cruz Yamada in the Third Shelter but she was the only one around who called him Yamada (at least in Third Shelter). So how is that Saten knew to called trap Cruz Yamada when no one else around him did? I'm curious to what everyone else thinks about this but it certainly would help my theory that someone (Mio) is spying on them and reporting to Saten and/or toward the theory that Ishiyama is still watching from the real world.

Secondly, and less important, Blade's body was made from a metallic skeleton and with the body parts of 100 people. Where is Gido going to find all this stuff for Blade's operation? Think Mengroze might have something to do with this? He's probably the only one who'd have access to 100s of body parts available for surgery.

[Magin]

Well, I'm pretty sure the AP was funded by people who had deep pockets, so that's always a possibility, if you know what I mean...

[Soji]

Originally Posted by js06

^
It translates to:
Gido: So you really don't remember her? You met before the experiment.
Blade: Eh?
Gido: Well...your past memories were sealed...so I guess that's obvious.

This is interesting ....but this means that all the adam/eve projects they're memories of the past were sealed?At least if we look Bade and Eve,I wonder why these memories were sealed in the first place.And if blade and Eve were created how can they have memories pre experiment(if with experiment Gido intends their creation)

Originally Posted by Avvesione

Actually, after Chapter 83 was released, pewpew said they were going back to translate the Simeon Arc (what was left after Certifiably Insane stopped releasing). You'd have to ask Kefit, js06, or Seki for more info on that though.

---

Sorry to break away from the whole Eve/Kasumi discussion but... there's a couple things that are really bothering me now.

First, in Chapter 83 on page 23, Saten calls out to Cruz after being hit by Strom as "Yamada!" Seems simple enough that when he's around trap Cruz that he uses the proper name. But wait a second... how would he know to use Yamada when he's only been around trap Cruz since Chapter 74 on? No one has used Yamada while Saten has around, so how would he know to use the name Yamada? Sure, Saten heard Eve call Cruz Yamada in the Third Shelter but she was the only one around who called him Yamada (at least in Third Shelter). So how is that Saten knew to called trap Cruz Yamada when no one else around him did? I'm curious to what everyone else thinks about this but it certainly would help my theory that someone (Mio) is spying on them and reporting to Saten and/or toward the theory that Ishiyama is still watching from the real world.

Secondly, and less important, Blade's body was made from a metallic skeleton and with the body parts of 100 people. Where is Gido going to find all this stuff for Blade's operation? Think Mengroze might have something to do with this? He's probably the only one who'd have access to 100s of body parts available for surgery.

God point. how Saten can know about this ?Perhaps Mio as you said yourself or maybe Sestuna,I mean Saten seems to be linked to the pgs...so I'm not surprised if that is the case.But one thing I do not understand is why Mio or Sestuna would say about Yamada/Cruz to Saten?I mean the pgs are fond of Yamada now,I doubt that they would harm him or reveal his identity if it is not absolutely necessary.
But whatever the case is..this brings us back a the usual question..why Saten it is so interested in Cruz enough to go to such extent to protect him?
I hope that this arc give us some answers about this.
Regarding blade and his body your hypothesis seems very possible,at least with the current information.Fortunately, we'll find out about this soon enough since this arc is towards is end.

[lightbringer]

"Yamada" was officially promoted to the Girl Squad, and IIRC the Girl Squad is under Saten. So he would have received some kind of notification perhaps.

[Soji]

^You sure about this?
because there are parts of the manga say is Riru the one.
Ch 56 pag 9
Sestuna: This is the Girl-Only Girl squad training school founded by Riru-Sama.
and riru herself said *My pretty girl squad*or something like that..during disk's arc ( when the pgs go on a mission).
and do not forget what Aruka said here .
ch 65 pag 27
Aruka: Indeed... Riru wouldn't screw up like that.
I would say this suggests that Riru is the one in charge of Girl squad.

[Avvesione]

I'll just go over my Mio Spying theory again real quick.

Ok, so Saten spent all that time and energy to have Cruz be killed and brought back to life in the Third Shelter. He looked distressed when Aruka was about to kill him a second time, so you know that Saten doesn't want Cruz killed anytime soon. However, after the PF Blast, Cruz was separated from all his Needless friends and became vulnerable to everyone in Blackspot. Saten didn't want all that work to go to waste if Cruz were to be killed right after PF Blast, so what should he do?

Saten's in pretty good terms with the Pretty Girl Squad and actually spent more time with Setsuna, Mio and Kuchinashi than Riru (in the manga). It wouldn't be surprising that Saten would ask Mio to protect Cruz, at least until he can survive. Additionally, having Mio follow Cruz would allow Mio the chance to report anything that Cruz does that's impressive or notable. After all, Mio was able to protect Cruz. On top of that, Mio, Disk and Cruz were the only ones who knew where Eve was located (in the hospital) and Saten was able to find her. The only one who'd be able to contact Saten AND know where Eve is would be Mio. Lastly, we've seen Saten give Cruz subtle hints throughout this memory arc on Eve gaining Doppelganger and why Triple Six is so interested in Eve. Mio gave Cruz a hint that it "gentles hands of light" saved him during the PF Blast. But how was Mio able to see that when she was in the Simeon Building during the time of the PF Blast? I doubt she was able to see the hands protecting Cruz while she was being blasted out into Blackspot. I'm guessing it's something Cruz needed to know on why he survived.

So in summary, I think Saten wanted Mio to be Cruz's bodyguard while spying on him. But there are some faults with this theory (as there are with pretty much all of them). For one thing, Mio never really called Cruz "Yamada". She only did it once time (I can think of) and mainly kept calling him Cruz. Secondly, I don't have a lot of faith in this theory myself. I have a feeling that it would be hinted more that Mio was spying on them. It seems like Mio was enjoying her time with Cruz unlike when she was spying on them during the Iron Mountain arc. To put it in simpler terms, it's like watching normal Mio vs. crafty/sneaky Mio. So now, I have a feeling it was Mio who told Saten to start calling trap Cruz Yamada.

Also on the topic of Mio, there's one thing I find funny. On Imai Kami's website (and I also think in the Manga under Disk's Dictionary) it says that Mio's weakness is that she can't read or write. So then how does she understand Kuchinashi when all she does is write out her dialogue? Then again, she usually doesn't point her sketchbook at Mio in the first place... and we know what happened in the Killer Girls story.

[Ynot]

Thanks for translating those parts I was talking about js06, I really appreciate it.

@Avvesione You said you find it curious how Saten knows what to call Yamada in the latest chapter. Imo this can be something trivial or a hint for the mio is a spy theory. Saten could've asked around in town what the girls who brought Eve in were called, or how they looked. If people told him there were two killergirls with a description a simple call to the Rose academy would be enough to get the corresponding names. This could also explain why Saten wasn't particularly surprised to see Mio in the same room as Blade and the rest. Simeon must have spies in a lot of places keeping they're eyes open for interesting stuff. Or Yamada might have introduced himself to shounen Blade at one point off page. So this is certainly something to keep in mind but I wouldn't consider it a sure thing yet.

About Mio being a spy. That certainly isn't a theory without it's own merits but how about a simple hidden transmitter? I haven't seen anyone else mention this but perhaps her bear/frog/rabbit(for example) has a hidden transmitter. It looked like Mio was genuinely surprised when Saten entered the room. And she didn't help them (Saten and Ishiyama) to inject Eve with the "serving of fruit" If she was to protect Yamada, it could've stopped the moment Yamada rejoined with Blade. Also when Mio was asked by Disk whether she had told anyone else about that place(Eve's sickbed) Mio said she didn't. And yeah, a real spy wouldn't say "Why yes, yes I did" but still I want to believe Mio

I do think there's a good chance Mengroze is the one responsible for patching up Blade's skeleton with metal etc. He has the skills, equipment and raw materials. But what's interesting to me is why? What happened to Blade which made it necessary for him to have this surgery? And why would Mengroze be willing to give a helping hand? Just curious whether he could do it or because he wants to help Gido?

[Kefit]

Originally Posted by Avvesione

Also on the topic of Mio, there's one thing I find funny. On Imai Kami's website (and I also think in the Manga under Disk's Dictionary) it says that Mio's weakness is that she can't read or write. So then how does she understand Kuchinashi when all she does is write out her dialogue? Then again, she usually doesn't point her sketchbook at Mio in the first place... and we know what happened in the Killer Girls story.

Nah, Mio's listed weakness on the site is simply "reading and writing kanji" which suggests that she's sub-par with kanji use, rather than unable to read or write at all. Kuchi's signs generally don't use difficult kanji, iirc.