AnimeSuki Forums

colonyan · 2013-09-21, 17:32

Is "Kereburemu" really meant literally "to mate"? If it was so he wouldn't have said things like "to put it simple".

Also, return of Ginka was hinted in last episode. Nothing to be surprised about. Yet waiting for the explanation for next episode.

Ah, something clings about this show.

Triple_R · 2013-09-21, 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by colonyan

Also, return of Ginka was hinted in last episode.

How was it hinted at?

Diveman · 2013-09-21, 17:51

When Akari woke up and Cerberum was there I was thinking "If he jumps into the bed I'm flipping tables"

I' think he probably mean "fuse together" even if he said "to mate". This should really get a 2nd season because they do need to explain a lot of stuff and I don't think it will look good on the very last episode which is next week.

colonyan · 2013-09-21, 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

How was it hinted at?

There was a scene with silhouette of Ginka fighting with her other self.

Just remembered that show revealed that Akari is half between two sides. I think there must be a reason why "Kereburemu" have chosen Akari "to mate".

Also, show said organization wanted to prevent "Kereburemu" to move up to next stage.

Obviously, "Kereburemu" needs Akari's successor to achieve his goal which remains unknown.

colonyan · 2013-09-21, 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diveman

When Akari woke up and Cerberum was there I was thinking "If he jumps into the bed I'm flipping tables"

I' think he probably mean "fuse together" even if he said "to mate". This should really get a 2nd season because they do need to explain a lot of stuff and I don't think it will look good on the very last episode which is next week.

Lol. At this point of this show, it is very hard to imagine, for me at least to think that he wants to mate Akari just for the sake of pure procreation or love. He has a plan, I'd like to think.

Dark Faith · 2013-09-21, 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Yes, it IS a magical girl show, and some people like that about it, you know.

Oh I know. Just seemed to me that this show was going for the dramatic route à la Madoka (even if it tried way too hard...case in point: Ginka's... uh... sacrifice..?) but in the end it pulled some convinient plot devices to bring everyone back for a final showdown with the big bad pedo-dad from hell.

I wanted more Magical Girl tears dammit.

Diveman · 2013-09-21, 19:16

Cerberum isn't even the big bad according to the show, I call for a 2nd season.

Lord of Fire · 2013-09-22, 10:55

Ginka's comeback was expected, as I never really did believe she was dead in the first place. Her mirror-self said she wanted to 'merge' with her, not 'kill' her, so she probably did just that. It's also possible that she got help from outside. After all, what is the key for and what can Aria and Etia do, given that they were forbidden to intervene until just now?

Cerebrum wanting to procreate through Akari was unexpected, though not entirely illogical, either. After all, he's a Daemonia and she is part Daemonia, part human. And he probably wants her dark side to emerge by traumatizing her, so that he can mate with her and spread their wicked offspring into the world, who are probably way more powerful than any Daemonia the girls have faced thus far.

I assume Akari's friends will help her break free and that Cerebrum will fail. However, I don't think we'll get to see what Leguzario truly wants to use the girls for, so unless we get a second season, that will probably forever remain a mystery.

AvatarST · 2013-09-22, 17:25

It looks like we're en route to a nakama power end. Not being sarcastic; I honestly never thought it would go this way. This show, haha.

The last few episodes were enjoyable though.

I think Cerberum will succeed to a degree by warping Akari into whatever but she'll be saved by the others. We'll see.

Gohan78 · 2013-09-22, 17:46

I am not 100% sure that Ginka is safe yet. She said "when you go to the other side, you learn everything" which seems to imply that she really died. I'll be happy if there is a way to bring her back to the land of the living.

Cerebrum wants to "mate" with Akari but it seems that the Daemonia mating ritual is a bit different from ours.

There is no way that this show will be able to answer all the questions it raised in the last episode. We will probably get a resolution for Cerebrum but I doubt we'll learn the truth about Leguzario and Cerebrum's boss.

ninryu · 2013-09-23, 07:36

Did the creators realize just how disturbing Cerebrum's "she's going to be a mother" at the end was? Very unfortunate implications.

MisaoFan · 2013-09-28, 10:03

Spoiler for Episode 13 (End):

Triple_R · 2013-09-28, 13:48

The ending was conventional, and a bit trite, in some respects, but it was still a solid and satisfying ending to me. Akari overcame the harsh trials put before her, and stated a commitment to eventually saving Daemonia-possessed humans rather than just eliminating them. Cerebrum made an excellent final boss, providing a good challenge both physically and philosophically to Akari and the other protagonists. And the ending did a good job of incorporating all the key characters and giving each of them a chance to shine.

What I probably found the most poignant is how Akari re-living that dark day over and over and over again enabled her to find a solution; to find a meeting of the minds between her and Fuyuna. And the way it unfolded made a lot of sense to me, providing a good counterpoint to Cerebrum's cynicism. Akari and Fuyuna overcoming their differences and gaining a deeper understanding of each other was the highlight of the episode, imo, even if it wasn't as flashy as the physical fight with Cerebrum.

9/10 for this finale, and 8/10 for the anime as a whole.

Tempester · 2013-09-28, 14:03

I think I should have posted my prediction that we'd get a happy ending back when I just watched episode 10. Still, I didn't quite expect it to be *this* happy. It actually feels good for a fantasy action show, the likes which usually force some kind of bittersweet flavor into the end like the main characters parting forever or something. This is a legitimate good ending.

Dark Faith · 2013-09-28, 17:37

Happy ending as expected.

I feel stupid that for a few episodes I allowed myself to believe that this show would focus on the "dark" side of Magical Girl animes, but it was nothing more than wishful thinking. In the end, everyone is alive and well, the big bad is gone (after the typical "final form" with a convinient weak point exposed, just begging to be exploited) and the motherly figure to give encouragement/powering up at the very end.

Never been a fan of endings where the situation turns from grim to sunshine&rainbows in the blink of an eye. But I guess it was my own fault for expecting more.

6/10. Pretty average to me.

GDB · 2013-09-28, 17:47

That was an incredibly disappointing ending. And they didn't even show Ginka's reunion with her father, despite showing their grief over her "death".

Triple_R · 2013-09-28, 20:24

I think I'm starting to see a possible trend in the post-Madoka magical girl world.

Some very recent magical girl shows have dark elements to them, and often have a dark vibe throughout, so it makes sense that viewers would think that they're seeing a show that's trying to emulate Madoka Magica. Hence, viewers expect endings that are no more happy than "bittersweet".

But no, I don't think we're seeing Madoka Magica copycats here. No, we're seeing something a bit different.

Unlike what happened with the mecha deconstruction NGE, the anime world now appears to be skipping the "copycat" phase altogether. It's skipping straight to the "aiming for a reconstruction" phase.

I think that Gen'ei, and Vivid Red Operation before it, were both attempts to be the Gurren Lagann to Madoka's NGE. In other words, they're trying to reconstruct what Madoka Magica deconstructed. With Gen'ei in particular, I think the aim was for Akari to be to Madoka what Simon was to Shinji Ikari.

Now, it doesn't look like Gen'ei or VRO fully succeeded in this goal, but I do think this was their goal, and I do think both shows made a reasonably good attempt at it.

I hope these magical girl reconstruction attempts continue. I hope one day a show pulls it off, and really does become the Gurren Lagann to Madoka's NGE. And perhaps the show that does it will take some lessons from what worked, and what didn't work, in both Gen'ei and VRO. So I do think Gen'ei could have some lasting value that way.

And I do think that the next time a "darker" magical girl anime comes along, viewers should keep in mind that reconstruction, rather than outright copying, may well be the goal here. I think keeping that in mind would lead to less disappointment with finales that are considerably different from Madoka Magica's.

Dawnstorm · 2013-09-28, 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

But no, I don't think we're seeing Madoka Magica copycats here. No, we're seeing something a bit different.

Unlike what happened with the mecha deconstruction NGE, the anime world now appears to be skipping the "copycat" phase altogether. It's skipping straight to the "aiming for a reconstruction" phase.

I think that Gen'ei, and Vivid Red Operation before it, were both attempts to be the Gurren Lagann to Madoka's NGE. In other words, they're trying to reconstruct what Madoka Magica deconstructed. With Gen'ei in particular, I think the aim was for Akari to be to Madoka what Simon was to Shinji Ikari.

I actually don't get Madoka vibes from the show at all. Ultimately, only the makers know, but I get the sense that Madoka is more like huge show out there they just know they'll be compared to.

I'm reminded much more of the earlier Mai Hime; not because of the ending, but mostly because of the way they treat relationships, and because Cerberum (Cerebrum?) reminds me more than a bit of the boy who's name I forgot, who was also part of a bigger organisation (though he was more of a watcher/facilitator, IIRC).

Ultimately, it's its own thing. I don't really buy that Madoka is the first dark magical girl show. It's recent and it's big. The major legacy isn't "darkness" (whatever that means), I think, but Kyubey: the mascot as villain isn't something I've seen often. And frankly, I don't see much of Kyubey in them. They remind me a lot more of witches familars - and they used the raven like a messenger, and the cat as someone who does it's own thing because it's interesting.

But then I'm hardly an expert in the history of magical girl shows.

The show could have been a lot better, I think, had it been two-cour. The show felt mostly stretched too thin.

***

Also, someone, I don't remember who (but I'm almost sure it was on a blog), mentioned that we have three magical girl shows these season, and they all involve cards:

Genei, Prism Illya, and Fantasista Doll.

Among these, Genei stands out, if only because they actually cared for the tradition of tarot. Unfortunately, it stands out more for being ambitious than for being successful.

I thought Prism Illya was the best of the three shows. Unpretentious, gorgeous-looking franchise fanservice. But without thinking I can say that Genei is most easily the most interesting of the three. If only they had more episodes to work with (or whatever went wrong, there). The potential is there. It's got its own unique feel. It does have that. Even though I enjoyed Prism Illya more, this one's going to stay with me longer. If I had funds for exactly one of the three shows, this show would get my money, as flawed as it is.

(Aside: That's actually an interesting discovery for me, about how my taste works. I sort of knew that, of course, but I never saw it that clearly before. I tend to prefer interesting over perfect.)

Triple_R · 2013-09-28, 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

I actually don't get Madoka vibes from the show at all.

Madoka took a staple of the magical girl genre (the magical girl familiar) and darkly inverted it.

Gen'ei took a staple of the magical girl genre (humans turning into monsters through monster-possession during moments of emotional weakness - see PreCure and Sailor Moon) and darkly inverted it.

In both cases, I had never seen this particular darker inversion done before.

I also think there's considerable similarities between Madoka and Akari. I also think that Luna was a compelling mixture of Homura, Sayaka, and Hitomi.

Quote:

I'm reminded much more of the earlier Mai Hime; not because of the ending, but mostly because of the way they treat relationships, and because Cerberum (Cerebrum?) reminds me more than a bit of the boy who's name I forgot, who was also part of a bigger organisation (though he was more of a watcher/facilitator, IIRC).

I do see your Cerebrum comparison, and yeah, he is a lot like that guy (I forget his name as well). Mai HiME may well have been one of the inspirations for this show.

Quote:

Ultimately, it's its own thing. I don't really buy that Madoka is the first dark magical girl show.

Honestly, I'm a bit disappointed you would use this argument. It's the cheapest, most simplistic, and most overused anti-Madoka argument in the book.

Of course Madoka is not the first dark magical girl show. But that's not the point.

Do you think there was never a dark mecha show before NGE? There almost certainly was, but that does not change how influential NGE was on the world of mecha, and the anime world in general. This is because NGE...

1) Took a particular trope of mecha anime (male lead is the son of deceased and/or really crappy parents) and put a darker, more realistic twist on it.

2) Achieved a level of prominence unlike any dark mecha show before it.

Madoka Magica is much the same. It...

1) Took a particular magical girl element (the magical girl familiar) and put a darker, more realistic twist on it.

2) Achieved a level of prominence unlike any dark magical girl show before it.

It's perfectly reasonable to think that Madoka Magica has influenced Gen'ei. I think you're far too dismissive of this idea.

Dawnstorm · 2013-09-28, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Madoka took a staple of the magical girl genre (the magical girl familiar) and darkly inverted it.

Gen'ei took a staple of the magical girl genre (humans turning into monsters through monster-possession during moments of emotional weakness - see PreCure and Sailor Moon) and darkly inverted it.

In both cases, I had never seen this particular darker inversion done before.

That's true. But in both cases, that's a perfectly plausible idea in its own right. Plenty of people see a trope and play it to its - to them - logical conclusion. That's a similarity, but one more likely attibutable to general human creative behaviour.

Madoka may certainly have made marketing the idea easier, though. It's both a boon (less resistance to getting the thing through), and a draw-back (more pressure by comparison).

Quote:

I also think there's considerable similarities between Madoka and Akari. I also think that Luna was a compelling mixture of Homura, Sayaka, and Hitomi.

I do see the comparisons, but in both cases it looks more like an interpretative scheme to me than anything conclusive.

With Madoka/Akari I could probably plead common ancestor's. The latter is a bit vague to be compelling evidence for anything but similarity.

Quote:

Honestly, I'm a bit disappointed you would use this argument. It's the cheapest, most simplistic, and most overused anti-Madoka argument in the book.

Of course Madoka is not the first dark magical girl show. But that's not the point.

I honestly understand your dispointment. I'm attacking a straw man; nobody said that.

I guess I was overstating my point:

Quote:

Do you think there was never a dark mecha show before NGE? There almost certainly was, but that does not change how influential NGE was on the world of mecha, and the anime world in general. This is because NGE...

1) Took a particular trope of mecha anime (male lead is the son of deceased and/or really crappy parents) and put a darker, more realistic twist on it.

2) Achieved a level of prominence unlike any dark mecha show before it.

Madoka Magica is much the same. It...

1) Took a particular magical girl element (the magical girl familiar) and put a darker, more realistic twist on it.

2) Achieved a level of prominence unlike any dark magical girl show before it.

It's perfectly reasonable to think that Madoka Magica has influenced Gen'ei. I think you're far too dismissive of this idea.

Maybe I'm mixing up influence with inspiration, and I'm not separating the ideas properly in my head? Sorry about that, I need to think some more.

2013-09-22, 10:55	Link #348
Lord of Fire The Voice of Reason Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: The Netherlands Age: 47	Ginka's comeback was expected, as I never really did believe she was dead in the first place. Her mirror-self said she wanted to 'merge' with her, not 'kill' her, so she probably did just that. It's also possible that she got help from outside. After all, what is the key for and what can Aria and Etia do, given that they were forbidden to intervene until just now? Cerebrum wanting to procreate through Akari was unexpected, though not entirely illogical, either. After all, he's a Daemonia and she is part Daemonia, part human. And he probably wants her dark side to emerge by traumatizing her, so that he can mate with her and spread their wicked offspring into the world, who are probably way more powerful than any Daemonia the girls have faced thus far. I assume Akari's friends will help her break free and that Cerebrum will fail. However, I don't think we'll get to see what Leguzario truly wants to use the girls for, so unless we get a second season, that will probably forever remain a mystery. __________________

2013-09-22, 17:25	Link #349
AvatarST ◕‿‿◕ Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Argentina Age: 39	It looks like we're en route to a nakama power end. Not being sarcastic; I honestly never thought it would go this way. This show, haha. The last few episodes were enjoyable though. I think Cerberum will succeed to a degree by warping Akari into whatever but she'll be saved by the others. We'll see. __________________

2013-09-22, 17:46	Link #350
Gohan78 Awakened One Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Northern Italy	I am not 100% sure that Ginka is safe yet. She said "when you go to the other side, you learn everything" which seems to imply that she really died. I'll be happy if there is a way to bring her back to the land of the living. Cerebrum wants to "mate" with Akari but it seems that the Daemonia mating ritual is a bit different from ours. There is no way that this show will be able to answer all the questions it raised in the last episode. We will probably get a resolution for Cerebrum but I doubt we'll learn the truth about Leguzario and Cerebrum's boss. __________________ Tibi, magnum Innominandum, signa stellarum nigrarum et bufaniformis Sadoquae sigilim. (De Vermis Mysteriis)

2013-09-28, 13:48	Link #353
Triple_R Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Age: 42	The ending was conventional, and a bit trite, in some respects, but it was still a solid and satisfying ending to me. Akari overcame the harsh trials put before her, and stated a commitment to eventually saving Daemonia-possessed humans rather than just eliminating them. Cerebrum made an excellent final boss, providing a good challenge both physically and philosophically to Akari and the other protagonists. And the ending did a good job of incorporating all the key characters and giving each of them a chance to shine. What I probably found the most poignant is how Akari re-living that dark day over and over and over again enabled her to find a solution; to find a meeting of the minds between her and Fuyuna. And the way it unfolded made a lot of sense to me, providing a good counterpoint to Cerebrum's cynicism. Akari and Fuyuna overcoming their differences and gaining a deeper understanding of each other was the highlight of the episode, imo, even if it wasn't as flashy as the physical fight with Cerebrum. 9/10 for this finale, and 8/10 for the anime as a whole. __________________

2013-09-28, 20:24	Link #357
Triple_R Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Age: 42	I think I'm starting to see a possible trend in the post-Madoka magical girl world. Some very recent magical girl shows have dark elements to them, and often have a dark vibe throughout, so it makes sense that viewers would think that they're seeing a show that's trying to emulate Madoka Magica. Hence, viewers expect endings that are no more happy than "bittersweet". But no, I don't think we're seeing Madoka Magica copycats here. No, we're seeing something a bit different. Unlike what happened with the mecha deconstruction NGE, the anime world now appears to be skipping the "copycat" phase altogether. It's skipping straight to the "aiming for a reconstruction" phase. I think that Gen'ei, and Vivid Red Operation before it, were both attempts to be the Gurren Lagann to Madoka's NGE. In other words, they're trying to reconstruct what Madoka Magica deconstructed. With Gen'ei in particular, I think the aim was for Akari to be to Madoka what Simon was to Shinji Ikari. Now, it doesn't look like Gen'ei or VRO fully succeeded in this goal, but I do think this was their goal, and I do think both shows made a reasonably good attempt at it. I hope these magical girl reconstruction attempts continue. I hope one day a show pulls it off, and really does become the Gurren Lagann to Madoka's NGE. And perhaps the show that does it will take some lessons from what worked, and what didn't work, in both Gen'ei and VRO. So I do think Gen'ei could have some lasting value that way. And I do think that the next time a "darker" magical girl anime comes along, viewers should keep in mind that reconstruction, rather than outright copying, may well be the goal here. I think keeping that in mind would lead to less disappointment with finales that are considerably different from Madoka Magica's. __________________

2013-09-21, 17:32	Link #341
colonyan Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2013	Is "Kereburemu" really meant literally "to mate"? If it was so he wouldn't have said things like "to put it simple". Also, return of Ginka was hinted in last episode. Nothing to be surprised about. Yet waiting for the explanation for next episode. Ah, something clings about this show.

2013-09-21, 17:51	Link #343
Diveman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011	When Akari woke up and Cerberum was there I was thinking "If he jumps into the bed I'm flipping tables" I' think he probably mean "fuse together" even if he said "to mate". This should really get a 2nd season because they do need to explain a lot of stuff and I don't think it will look good on the very last episode which is next week.

2013-09-21, 19:16	Link #347
Diveman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011	Cerberum isn't even the big bad according to the show, I call for a 2nd season.

2013-09-23, 07:36	Link #351
ninryu It's yuri, bitches Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Israel Age: 28	Did the creators realize just how disturbing Cerebrum's "she's going to be a mother" at the end was? Very unfortunate implications.

2013-09-28, 14:03	Link #354
Tempester Japanese Culture Fan Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Planet Earth Age: 33	I think I should have posted my prediction that we'd get a happy ending back when I just watched episode 10. Still, I didn't quite expect it to be this happy. It actually feels good for a fantasy action show, the likes which usually force some kind of bittersweet flavor into the end like the main characters parting forever or something. This is a legitimate good ending.

2013-09-28, 17:37	Link #355
Dark Faith Often Disappointed Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Portugal Age: 37	Happy ending as expected. I feel stupid that for a few episodes I allowed myself to believe that this show would focus on the "dark" side of Magical Girl animes, but it was nothing more than wishful thinking. In the end, everyone is alive and well, the big bad is gone (after the typical "final form" with a convinient weak point exposed, just begging to be exploited) and the motherly figure to give encouragement/powering up at the very end. Never been a fan of endings where the situation turns from grim to sunshine&rainbows in the blink of an eye. But I guess it was my own fault for expecting more. 6/10. Pretty average to me.

2013-09-28, 17:47	Link #356
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	That was an incredibly disappointing ending. And they didn't even show Ginka's reunion with her father, despite showing their grief over her "death".