Mahou Senki Lyrical Nanoha Force Manga Discussion

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

That's only your theory, though. There's nothing discounting that Laevantine broke simply because it hit something hard.

The problem with that is that we already seen Laevateinn cutting trough very hard objects without much problem, i agree tough, in that is weird to think of Laevateinn as a sword "made of magic", that's why i run with the idea that is a physical sword whose magic powers enable it to increase it's endurance, that among other thing would explain how the blade didn't lose any resistance by being constantly engulfed in flames xDU. My guess is that Cypha's powers cancel Laevateinn's inner mystical powers leaving the belkan sword reduced to a simple piece of sharpened metal.

Oh the other hand. I hope they give some love to the poor unison devices, at least some modification to the AEC that allow them to help with the processing or the output of the batteries. It will be jarring to not see Agito and Rein on the front lines anymore.

EDIT: Page claimed for mistycal swords xD.

[Kikaifan]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Even though it is physical, there is magic in it. Cypha can destroy that which was formed with magic, so it would be of no use. She even forces the magic within Levanteinn apart, which shatters the sword, so an arrow wouldn't be too different.

Also, Laevatein still took her arm off before it broke. The arrows are a lot more powerful. Their regeneration hasn't really been tested but most regenerators don't come back from being reduced to small burning chunks very well.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Kikaifan

Also, Laevatein still took her arm off before it broke. The arrows are a lot more powerful. Their regeneration hasn't really been tested but most regenerators don't come back from being reduced to small burning chunks very well.

My guess is that Cypha probably could cancelled the flames and receiving only the arrow, becauseof her powerfull regeneration the most intelligent solution will be let the arrow to com across her body, then quickly regenerates the damaga(that is, if the arrow still have enough Kinetic force to penetrate her reactor enhaced skin).

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

The problem with that is that we already seen Laevateinn cutting trough very hard objects without much problem, i agree tough, in that is weird to think of Laevateinn as a sword "made of magic", that's why i run with the idea that is a physical sword whose magic powers enable it to increase it's endurance, that among other thing would explain how the blade didn't lose any resistance by being constantly engulfed in flames xDU. My guess is that Cypha's powers cancel Laevateinn's inner mystical powers leaving the belkan sword reduced to a simple piece of sharpened metal.

I'm more inclined to believe that. Magic is used to strength the bonds between the molecules, making it far more durable. So when Signum attacked Cypha, that endurance boost was negated.

Or maybe it's just the Huckebein's toughness is on a much higher level than the other very hard objects she cut through with no problem (can you give examples of this? I don't remember anything notable).

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

My guess is that Cypha probably could cancelled the flames and receiving only the arrow, becauseof her powerfull regeneration the most intelligent solution will be let the arrow to com across her body, then quickly regenerates the damaga(that is, if the arrow still have enough Kinetic force to penetrate her reactor enhaced skin).

That's why she should have spammed the arrows. It might not have worked, but it's a better strategy than de-unisoning and charging right at her.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Kikaifan

Also, Laevatein still took her arm off before it broke. The arrows are a lot more powerful. Their regeneration hasn't really been tested but most regenerators don't come back from being reduced to small burning chunks very well.

Piercing damage and slashing damage are two different things. If we discount the magic fire powerup, Levantine still is a sword, and a sword is fully capable of slicing of an arm without magic. Sturmfalke's arrow without magic would just be a really fast moving arrow. It'll bloody hurt, but it'll also be incapable of taking of limbs.

[Tiresias]

I still don't get why no character even thinks to use a variety of Stardust Fall to, say, lob Tungsten rods (just store them in hammerspace). Even if it gets intercepted by anti-magic midway it's still a 'real' projectile (not one created by magic) flying at relativistic speed...

I guess it would be too much to expect someone making a spell that fires real laser beams instead of magical ones...

[itanshi1]

I refer to my sentiment here

Originally Posted by itanshi1

Well, they can lose limbs, so they can lose their neck which would be quite the trick. I still say they aren't plants and suffocating them should be an option. Maybe encase them in a chloroform laced bubble barrier

[Keroko]

Hayate tried lobbing a huge chunk of ice last chapter. Didn't really work all that well, even though it was still a huge chunk of ice. Magic or no.

Like I said, the Eclipse is as wonky as Imagine Breaker.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Kikaifan

Also, Laevatein still took her arm off before it broke. The arrows are a lot more powerful. Their regeneration hasn't really been tested but most regenerators don't come back from being reduced to small burning chunks very well.

Well, my theory is that it takes an active will to de-link particles. The first time Signum slashed, she kinda caught Cypha off-guard. The next time? Cypha was prepared and blew Levanteinn apart.

But yes, I'm one of the ones who believes regeneration has limits. When Cyph regrew her arm, she was actively using her other arm to do it, and there was a small glow of magic on her hand. I'd say a few other things, but I'll keep that under wraps for a certain release. ;p

Originally Posted by Tiresias

I still don't get why no character even thinks to use a variety of Stardust Fall to, say, lob Tungsten rods (just store them in hammerspace). Even if it gets intercepted by anti-magic midway it's still a 'real' projectile (not one created by magic) flying at relativistic speed...

Stardust fall was Nanoha's spell, and it was just picking up rocks with telekinesis and dropping them. They are currently over the ocean, so that's not possible. Also, Hayate is using a variation of this with Heimdall, or at least tried to, anyway. Forming an iceberg with the water to drop it onto the ship was a good ploy; it's just that Karen interrupted it.

We don't know if anyone else really has the magic to do something like that.

I guess it would be too much to expect someone making a spell that fires real laser beams instead of magical ones...

Ironically enough, that is what the AEC weapons like the Strike Cannon are doing.

[itanshi1]

I think its a skill issue more than a technique. hayate has to think that they wouldn't let her just hit them with it.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Or maybe it's just the Huckebein's toughness is on a much higher level than the other very hard objects she cut through with no problem (can you give examples of this? I don't remember anything notable).

Taking into consideration that neither Signum nor Laevateinn have any magic cancelation abilities they showed very high efficience on detroying powerfull shields and barriers(wich coun as hard objects to some degree), Laevateinn has destroyed a couple of powerfull physical weapons in the past, and even before unisoning they are perfectly able to slice gadget drones with the Shidden Issen move(and the gadgets aren't precisely made of cookie dough). Running by that logic, Cypha's skin(or at least flesh/bones) need to be harder than steel(or whatever alloy Scaglietti use on the Type-III's) to stop and break Laevateinn like that.

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

That's why she should have spammed the arrows. It might not have worked, but it's a better strategy than de-unisoning and charging right at her.

That left me wondering if Signum didn't have an "inter-middle" attack to use with Laevateinn's Bogenform. Sure, Sturmfalken is very powerfull but also a little slow as Signum needs time to set up the attack and aim to the opponent(that's the main reason of why she didn't use it against Fate in A's, Signum herself comments on the possibility but change her mind after whitnessing Fate's speed knowing that chances to actually hit her with that are slim). It will be awesome to see her do an attack like "Arrow Shower", "Double Strafing" or something like that xD.

[Koveras Alvane]

Originally Posted by itanshi1

and how magically delicious was the cake that acous conjured?

IIRC he didn't conjure that cake, he just stored it inside magical hammerspace. ^^ Presumably the same one where the mage's clothes go before the Barrier Jacket is weaved...

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Hayate tried lobbing a huge chunk of ice last chapter. Didn't really work all that well, even though it was still a huge chunk of ice. Magic or no.

Like I said, the Eclipse is as wonky as Imagine Breaker.

The ice broke because Hayate lost her concentration by being stabbed. The Eclipse had nothing to do with it.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

That left me wondering if Signum didn't have an "inter-middle" attack to use with Laevateinn's Bogenform. Sure, Sturmfalken is very powerfull but also a little slow as Signum needs time to set up the attack and aim to the opponent(that's the main reason of why she didn't use it against Fate in A's, Signum herself comments on the possibility but change her mind after whitnessing Fate's speed knowing that chances to actually hit her with that are slim). It will be awesome to see her do an attack like "Arrow Shower", "Double Strafing" or something like that xD.

Awesome those may be, ranged attacks were never her specialty. My guess is that the only reason she even have Sturmfalken at all was so she won't be completely helpless against a fast-moving long-ranged opponent.

The sky is just too big a battlefield for melee units to survive without superior speed, fast-casting teleportation, heavy binds, or last-ditch ranged weapon

Just a thought, but maybe Signum's AEC will be a Vibrosword, or a variant?

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

The ice broke because Hayate lost her concentration by being stabbed. The Eclipse had nothing to do with it.

Which is another hoibdoib that ruins any analysis we put forth. A solid chunk of frozen water shatters because the caster loses focus now.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Which is another hoibdoib that ruins any analysis we put forth. A solid chunk of frozen water shatters because the caster loses focus now.

And why not? Anything that takes concentration to maintain, can be broken when the concentration is. What happens when you're building a car pyramid, and as you begin to place the last card, someone shouts "BOO!" in your ear?

But my understanding was that Hayate created the iceberg, Cypha slashed it up, Hayate in turn controlled the chunks, planning to use an ice storm-like attack, but Karen's attack caused to her lose concentration and control of the ice bits.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Well, my theory is that it takes an active will to de-link particles. The first time Signum slashed, she kinda caught Cypha off-guard. The next time? Cypha was prepared and blew Levanteinn apart.

Not quite, the super-hard skin is a trait that apparently comes with the reacting(at least in Cypha's case), but their bodies are still harder than usual, Cypha blew Laevateinn just because it was damaged first when Signum slices her arm off(also i don't think she was caught off guard as Cypha clearly try to parry the attack without much success), without said previous damage, Cypha's second block should probably only stopped Laevateinn cold or cracked it's blade at best. In short, the Hucks have very durable bodies who become even mroe durable after reacting(Deville apparently have an ever more extreme version of said ability to the point of changing his physical appearance), it's apparently a natural trait.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Which is another hoibdoib that ruins any analysis we put forth. A solid chunk of frozen water shatters because the caster loses focus now.

Well, apparently FORCE want to be more realistic here, a muntain of ice suspended upside-down in the air will probably fall appart because of it's own mass. I think Hayate's spell have somthing to do with mantain the ice united. Just like the rpevious theory of magic enhacing magical weapons's endurance.

Originally Posted by Tiresias

Awesome those may be, ranged attacks were never her specialty. My guess is that the only reason she even have Sturmfalken at all was so she won't be completely helpless against a fast-moving long-ranged opponent

That will be the purpuse of said "inter-middle" attacks, Sturmfalken is a powerful long range attack but the conditions to use it are very limitng to Signum, it very much like Vita and Graf Eisen's Destruction Form, the drill looks awesome but is pretty unpractical to fight human-sized, fast-moving opponents, said attacks are to fight more powerfull but less moving targets. Raiser was asking for Signum to do an "arrow spam" attack and that will be indeed cool xD.

Originally Posted by Tiresias

Just a thought, but maybe Signum's AEC will be a Vibrosword, or a variant?

I thinked of a combination between this and SuperHeat Blade, vibrating at high speed and heating the edge to allow it to slice across anything, sadly that would laungh Signum to the "censored" team again xDU. Oh, and if said upgrade ever come i hope that it will be for a 5th Gen Laevateinn.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Not quite, the super-hard skin is a trait that apparently comes with the reacting(at least in Cypha's case), but their bodies are still harder than usual,

Harder than usual, I may agree with. But what other evidence makes you think Cypha has super hard skin?

The only evidence we have, is that Levanteinn cracked, and then shattered. The cracking could possibly be explained by hard skin... or a difference in power. When Levanteinn first clashed with Bardiche, the latter cracked.

No watch Signum hit Cypha later. The Blade goes in and is stopped... then shatters into many pieces. It doesn't just break, but shatters in all directions. To me, it looks more like it was blown apart.

And if you'll notice later in the fight aboard the ship, nothing like that happens. Fate is fighting with her AEC mode and successfully cutting Cypha; there is no shattering. Their bodies may be tough, but not super-hard. If they were, they wouldn't be cut so much.

[itanshi1]

eh AEC... Magic blade...

[Nanya01]

Originally Posted by itanshi1

eh AEC... Magic blade...

AEC is NOT magic. It uses magic to power itself, yes, but it, itself is not magic.