[Manga] Naruto Chapter 583 Discussion

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Rahan

I thought about it, but this would solve Kabuto's identity crisis (he would always have had the option to get his identity back from Sasori, even in the case he couldn't get his memories), so this not going to happen, this would go exactly against the point of the flashback. Not even I think Kishi is bad enough to write this. Although it could still happen with Izanami, whose point would be to change bad writingfate.

Plus do you really see Sasori brainwashing kids so that they can spy on Orochimaru 8 frigging years later ? If Oro didn't get hurt near that orphanage 3 years after the brainwashing, he would have never noticed Kabuto. This is completely implausible.

It would hardly solve anything really, quite the opposite in fact.
To have his first real memory returned would be just one set of persona among many others. In fact it would made a mockery of the only real bit of his past he took for granted.
If his "mother" has forgotten (or was made to forgot) and the orphelina was just another mission he wasn't even aware of then Kabuto has nothing. He is nothing.
@ your edit : spy on Oro no (or only incidentally) but recruting Root members among war orphan was Danzou modus operandi, it could be possible that Kabuto was sent there as a grass ninja in order to infiltrate the organization.
edit2 : by grass ninja I mean sleeper agent, not from the Grass village.

Nah, last we knew, they were both training under the swordsmen with the intention of becoming a swordsman, yet for some reason, Edo Mangetsu was a swordsman who mastered all the swords. Not that I care, he wasn't even graced with a 2 panels fight.

I don't remember Suigetsu saying anything implying his brother hadn't become a swordman, when was it said?

[Rahan]

Originally Posted by Hunter

It would hardly solve anything really, quite the opposite in fact.
To have his first real memory returned would be just one set of persona among many others. In fact it would made a mockery of the only real bit of his past he took for granted.
If his "mother" has forgotten (or was made to forgot) and the orphelina was just another mission he wasn't even aware of then Kabuto has nothing. He is nothing.

Why ? the orphanage was real as well as the feelings of those insides. It was confirmed to Kabuto when Danzou told she left Root because she was unable to kill her emotions. I don't see why it would change anything to "Mother" and the orphanage and everything he took for granted. It would only give him his roots. (pun intended). Sure he would have been Sasori's tool, but he was freed from Sasori and would have the possibility to get back at him, so where is the problem ?

To be fair, I don't even get the deal with Kabuto's reaction this chapter. So a woman on her last breath didn't recognize a boy in an enemy outfit she hadn't seen since his pre-teen days ? Is that even supposed to be surprising ? I don't get the "brainwashing" "sharingan" "shisui" or whatever theories. Why the hell would they be required considering the triviality of what happened ?

@ your edit : spy on Oro no (or only incidentally) but recruting Root members among war orphan was Danzou modus operandi, it could be possible that Kabuto was sent there as a grass ninja in order to infiltrate the organization.

That would be a waste of ressources. That's not a place where Root usually recruited (or Kishi forgot to mention kids missing from the orphanage) They only took in the kid they noticed before.

I don't remember Suigetsu saying anything implying his brother hadn't become a swordman, when was it said?

Databook 3, Suigetsu's entry :
"The Hidden Mist Village is well-known and feared as the "Village of Bloody Mist:, due to its extremely violent teaching methods. And 16 years ago, that vilage produced a prodigy: the second son of the Hoozuki clan, Suigetsu. With abilities peculiar to his clan and his brother Mangetsu's cruel nature, Suigetsu was known as the "second coming of the demon".
Along with his brother, he dreamed of one day owning one of the great shinobi swords as they travelled together on dangerous missions. And then the day his brother died with his dream only half-realised, Suigetsu pledged to get his hands on *all* of the swords. And even after the humiliation of being captured by Orochimaru, that dream never ended. And now that Suigetsu is free, he is once again focused in the pursuit of that dream. "

He didn't realize his dream of owning his dream of owning one sword, yet he owns a scroll to summon them all. Yeah, right. Note that Edo Mangetsu also took the title of second coming of the demon.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Rahan

To be fair, I don't even get the deal with Kabuto's reaction this chapter. So a woman on her last breath didn't recognize a boy in an enemy outfit she hadn't seen since his pre-teen days ? Is that even supposed to be surprising ? I don't get the "brainwashing" "sharingan" "shisui" or whatever theories. Why the hell would they be required considering the triviality of what happened ?

LOL, you make it seem like Kabuto's appearance has changed at all in his entire 23 years of life. He looks exactly the same. And, since "Mother" and Kabuto were together for several years, and he was trusted enough in the group to treat patients, there is no way she could have simply forgotten him, especially in only 5 years.

That is not to say that she was brainwashed or in anyway physically altered. Rather, I believe Kishimoto is simply going for the symbolism of her not being able to recognize the the boy she once cared for versus the boy that killed her. I doubt there is any hidden motive behind her not being able to recognize Kabuto, simply an observation that the boy she once knew could not be the boy that took her life.

[Hunter]

As real as Yuura's loyalty to Suna when he got back his memory? And several times worse for someone like Kabuto who had known virtually nothing but deception and lies but for this one thing which would turn out to be a lie as well. Back at Sasori? Why? Sasori would be no more his ennemy than the people he's currently working for.
His entire life is already a lie, if his very memory is a construction then there really is nothing to Kabuto. Nothing but the truth he's going to hear from Orochimaru that is.

That would be a waste of ressources. That's not a place where Root usually recruited (or Kishi forgot to mention kids missing from the orphanage) They only took in the kid they noticed before.

How do you know this? The orphanage is run by an ex-Root to begin with and for all we know similar children like Kabuto have been sent to other orphanage as well, that the whole point of sleeper agents, they're here for the duration and might never be used.

As for Mangetsu I think you read too much into this, it's said his dream was half realized (the becoming one of the swordman of the Mist being this half I gather) not the owning just one sword.

[faceroll]

wow so many twists in this chapter.
at first i thought that "mother" was a normal person unitl Danzo came
and damn Orochimaru appears again as his usual pedo self XD

[Darth SpiderDen]

Another multi-chapter flasback on a story that's half-composed of flashbacks.....
And a flasback from Kabuto....
I really liked it more when he first appeared as an antagonist, where they told that:
- he was an orphan
- taken up by Konoha and trained as a spy
- sent to multiple locations doing his dirty business
- at some point, he turns wicked evil (or was always, I think in the backstory given initially it was implied Kabuto killed his parents)
- evil assistant of Orochimaru, lurking and waiting for his time to shine.

I was happy with that backstory: it was concise and explained (or not) a hole lot of the character.
We don't need to know all of the reasons and causes for a character's Evil or what not: Kishi never did that to Orochimaru, he was just Evil, done!
I can't look at this in any other way than: stalling so to have more time with the manga running.....god damnit.

[Enishi316]

I think I speak for a lot of people when I say. Who cares about Kabuto's past!! I'm more interested in his short future after the Death Bother's tear him apart.

[Darth SpiderDen]

Originally Posted by Enishi316

I think I speak for a lot of people when I say. Who cares about Kabuto's past!! I'm more interested in his short future after the Death Bother's tear him apart.

Don't you mean the brother's look-at-mee-I-have-MS-and-will-only-use-MS-related-jutsus-till-we-die??

[kk2extreme]

Can it be Kabuto is flashbacking because he is in Itachi's genjutsu?

[Lendial]

flash back chapter no-justsu? oh god no.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

I wonder if he had already Shisui's eye under the bandage, if so then he could also easily control the spy woman or Kabuto. For example Orochi asked Danzou to do him a favor and make Kabuto join them, because when he healed Orochimaru he realized how talented Kabuto is, so Orochi wanted him for his experiments.

I'd say it's a yes. danzo holding his covered eye and Mother changing her mind implies that he already has shisui's eye and is just getting used to using it at that point in time.

The only thing that doesn't yet fit into this story is Sasori, how did he get a hold of Kabuto, maybe he did so when Sasori was paired with Orochi because he had disagreements with Orochi.

as Rahan points out, it needs to be a bit more complex. I hope sasori's involvement is shown next chapter.

also, Orochi could have left konoha by this time in the flashback. just because he is with danzo doesn't mean he is still a konoha ninja. danzo still had ties to him right before his death after all. and as you point out it was a mutually beneficial arrangement. favors for favors. danzo was doing him a favor here by getting kabuto

Originally Posted by Rahan

We know this isn't how it happened. Oro thanked Sasori (well Yamato under disguise) for sending Kabuto to him since Kabuto's talents proved useful to him, so we are supposed to care why ? We know for a fact Oro isn't the one who found Kabuto.

another way to look at that scene on the heaven and earth bridge is that that notion is what sasori was under the impression of being true. perhaps orochimaru put kabuto in a position to be taken by sasori without sasori knowing it was a setup to make him use a useless spy on orochimaru. that or it could be as hunter said and sasori did in fact get to him first as a 5 year old to spy on root

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Rahan

He didn't realize his dream of owning his dream of owning one sword, yet he owns a scroll to summon them all. Yeah, right. Note that Edo Mangetsu also took the title of second coming of the demon.

That's why I never took the Naruto Databook too seriously, given how Kishi write his story nowadays. It'd be better if you just follow the manga coz even there, there are some contradictions with the earlier chapters, let alone the databook.

[Nintendo]

once you see a flashback.....pretty much spells the end of that character.

oro wasnt evil to be evil, he had a goal and had no moral care of if it hurt or killed. he wanted to be the most knowledgeable person on the planet, and wanted the sharigan because he wanted a very fast way to learn. then kimish wrote in a little footnote....to humanize him, that he wanted to learn it all to wait for his parents to return to him. completely ruined the character for me.

[octaviahawk]

Originally Posted by christinemarie

This chapter seems tells me, why do I have a bad feeling that Orochimaru would return except he only have memories of Kabuto?

Spoiler for possible sequence:

How about the real return of Orochimaru disintegrating Kabuto's body like some sort of time jutsu that would only activate if Kabuto is in grave danger state, much to the surprise of Uchiha brothers. Then the Edo-Tensei can still be cancelled depending on Orochimaru.

You know, your spoiler/theory is frightening bad-ass I really, REALLY hope that doesn't happen!

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Well Kishi is going to kill him off so he has to get you to care about him before he does. Kishi loves to milk the pathos. He wants you to feel something for Kabuto when the end comes.

LMFAO, true, true, but we do seem to love him for it...hooray for pathos-milking!

Originally Posted by kk2extreme

Can it be Kabuto is flashbacking because he is in Itachi's genjutsu?

You know, I was thinking the same thing....


Last but not least...and I'm sorry for this, I REALLY truly am (not, trololol):

Spoiler for :P:

I mean...come on...ninja nuns!!!!

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by haegar

However, I still stand by my not likeing the background that he is given, AT ALL.

So lemme flashback, too: At first I was annoyed with Kabuto for getting more and more screentime and power over the course of the war. The whole Edo-Tensei business had this whiff of asspull... And then later it seemed only a matter of time till either Itachi or Sasuske show up to end him.

And there Kishi suprised us nicely by staying coherent with Kabuto's powergain, he pitted both Itachi and Sasuske against him and yet he seems a decent match. And I rly like how he explained that enormous powerup via Snakesage, that was good in many a ways: Naruto's sage mode is less exceptional, but still is a cool thing. The very notion that a "sage" doesn't have to be inherently good, but that there can also be somebody using natural energy at so high a level precisley for being a sage of evil I thought was great.

And I felt that Kabuto's character as I read him mixed well with that: Whatever psychfuck had happened to him in the past under Oro or Sasori, he had passed through and left behind his state of emotional trauma and trying to emulate Oro's greatness and instead decided to pursue his own, surpassing his former mentor. And being the snake sage fits that so nicely. He had discarded emotion for power completely, or so it seemed, to become the cold calculating snake. And that would have added to the manga imho as one of the main villains not having the villain face cause he had a hard childhood but rather because after a troubled live, he conciously threw all that human shit away and married power itself instead in the guise of the path of the evil sage.

Like that, I was willing to accept him as a potential wench in the plans of either of the other main players. Like that he could have moved on to seriously interfere with the Kages, with Naruto, with Sasuske and even with Madara himself ... because like that he would ahve shown a dedication to raw power itself like few others.

But no, in the end a point has to be made that there is no such thing as the conscious choice to be evil - people only ever get fucked over by life which in turn makes them sad, then empty, and then ultimately evil. So basically he's turning into Sasuske 2.0 after a promising start as the opposing sage.

And that's why I don't like it one bit even if for once Kishi invests some time and tries hard to make it compelling. Tries so hards he has to make Danzo and Oro additional sources of Kabuto's pains ... and it's nice to see Oro being an ass but a brilliant one back then in root, but does it all have to lead back to him??? I thought Kabuto had emancipated himself from Oro but instead it seems it all leads back to him and keeps on doing so.

i can't say i'm happy about kabuto becoming hebi-sennin or his ultimate goals but i do think that his sob story is a bit overdone. it seems out of place and the timing is pretty bad. it also feels like kishi is trying to justify kabuto's "evilness" or whatever it is that drive villains to be villains. all i was really hoping for was to find out what he wants, although i admit that i wanted to know a little more about the guy, but that was before. not now. it's a little too late for that. oh well, the flashback is not so bad. it's nice seeing oro again. but like what the others mentioned, i can't bring myself to care about kabuto.

[23 gundam fan]

so what to say about this chapt. was that supposed to be a tear-jerker or something. did we really to need to spend a whole chapt about kabuto past. i dont really think this is needed. kish does this too much, guess what kish SOMETIMES PPL ARE JUST EVIL FOR EVILS SAKE. YOU DONT HAVE TO WASTE TIME SHOWING US EVERY BAD GUYS LIFE STORY. i think back to kisame flashback, here is a charactor who is not really any type of important charactor too the whole story of naruto but kish spend time doing a flashback with him. all i got from this story is how many lives danzo has affected in a bad way. his actions have sent a lot of ppl down a dark path( pain. sasuke kabuto) these ppl would have had very different lives if not for his actions. bottow line GET BACK TO THE DAMN FIGHT PLEASE.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

also, Orochi could have left konoha by this time in the flashback. just because he is with danzo doesn't mean he is still a konoha ninja.

Maybe you misunderstood what i wrote. Orochi had to leave Konoha because of the 3rd, so his only way to still be in Konoha and safely continue his experiments was to team up with Danzou. And that could happen only if he promised to Danzou that he will give him power to become the next hokage, we know Danzou's dream was to become hokage and that he betrayed Konoha multiple times just for his personal ambition. We know now that Orochimaru knew about the genetic connection between the Uchiha, the Senju and the sage of 6 paths, so i wonder if he told to Danzou a part of this and then Danzou got the idea that if he can kill off the Uchiha clan then he can get a lot of eyes. Was just Danzou's luck that he got all those eyes or did he plan to get those? Maybe in the next chapter we will briefly see if Danzou and Orochimaru were there to collect the Uchiha eyes after the massacre. If Kabuto was helping Orochi to implant those eyes into Danzou's arm then it's also a connection point between Itachi's and Kabuto's stories

[Eragon]

I kind of agree that Kishi should show some villains to be evil for evils sake. But when a character becomes as powerful and as influential as Kabuto has become you can't just keep him shallow. You have to give the character more depth by either giving him more screen time or by giving him a large enough backstory to compensate for the lack of screen time, IMO.

[ranchan13]

I think Kabuto is stalling for time until he can activate Plot Hole no Jutsu

[Ulquiorra]

Since "This Is Your Life!" with Kabuto Yakushi seems to have bored some folks, I'll ask was the other guy with Orochimau and Danzou identified? It looks like he could be another Aburame. Perhaps Torune's father who Tobi mentioned? The master of the nano bugs.

Not that it matters now, but I wanted to see a Danzou led civil war in Konoha after the Kage Summit since it could have expanded on the clans. I imagine more than one Aburame and Yamanaka were tied up in ROOT.