Code Geass (Generic discussion thread)

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Humanity has a very large capacity to make war. That is just the way it is. We are a competitive species, it is how we have survived and flourished. Frankly I do not care if his sacrifice was for naught in this case as he pretty much turned into Suzaku in the end. Which I guess is why Suzaku agreed to help him.

How did he turn into Suzaku? In the end all he still cared about was the result(a better tomorrow) and used whatever means were necessary to achieve said results mass geassing, mass murder and suicide.

This differs greatly from my view of Suzaku before he became nothing more than a plot device who was more concerned with how things got done as oppossed to actually getting them done.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by ZeroSama

How did he turn into Suzaku? In the end all he still cared about was the result(a better tomorrow) and used whatever means were necessary to achieve said results mass geassing, mass murder and suicide.

This differs greatly from my view of Suzaku before he became nothing more than a plot device who was more concerned with how things got done as oppossed to actually getting them done.

Breaking it down, Suzaku's character was basically one that sought atonement through death for the sins that he had committed. Suzaku joined the army with the best of intentions but only really wanted to die a martyr to ease his own pain.

Lelouch at the end sought atonement through death for the people he has geassed and for the lives he ruined. He planned the Zero Requiem with the best of intentions and died a martyr. While it is questionable if it was to ease his own guilt for the things he has done like Suzaku did in Season one, Lelouch was the one that denounced Suzaku's way of seeking atonement through death. And in the end he made Suzaku live to oversee the world as his atonement. The whole thing just makes me think that it was a very unnatural shift in Lelouch's thinking to reach that point.

Another point that I had a problem with, actually a few points, is that while he has ruined and destroyed many lives with his geass, he himself viewed the power in a positive light in the end. That geass was like wishes, and also, believing he had to die for what he has done is almost like denouncing the good he has done with geass as well. Without Zero, the Japanese would not have gotten as far as they had and the UFN would not have been formed.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by ZeroSama

If their was a new story i'd rather it was nearer to the end of the timesacle that you suggested. If their was a major conflict so soon after his death it would be a case of "WTF?!?!?!!?!". His death didn't bring a lasting peace so his sacrifice was pointless in the end. NOOO!!!!!!!! This Lelouch fanboy might just shed a few tears. Or bomb the Sunrise building.

If they want, they can, and nothing is wrong with that. It happens often in some stories. For instance, in the zelda series. Between the events of Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker, there are only 100 years. And even less between Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess.

What I am curious about is about Lelouch. Some times ago, I said that it would be wrong to create a new hero if they do a sequel, but now I am more open to the idea of a new hero. The only thing that I am sure is that c.c. would be part of it. She is the only Geass Giver that we know about after all, even if IMHO, maybe V.V. and her were not the only Geass Giver in this big world.

[youngde]

Personally, as long as Kallen and C.C. are happy, I'm not that particular as to whether Lelouch comes back or not. I do think that if they made a sequel soon after the series, it would make more sense for him to be alive because it would show that he anticipated that a lasting peace would not be made simply w/ his death (I'm sorry, I don't buy that. Malcontents would start showing up before long. It's just human nature.)

[Narona]

Since Koshimizu is not around at the moment. Here some infos translated by Celiss Galvea.

The geass.net website was updated and Celiss Translated it. (don't know if it's the mobile or the normal site though.)

More "proofs" that lelouch is apparently dead for good.

Originally Posted by Celiss Galvea

Lelouch's profile on Geass-net has been updated. The last line now reads:

"[...] Thereafter, with the hatred of the entire world concentrated on himself, he gave his own life in exchange for the completion of "Zero Requiem", by way of having Suzaku, acting as Zero, defeat him."

Kallen's profile has also been updated. The second half now reads:

"[...]

Even after Zero became Emperor Lelouch, [Kallen], having received a chance to do so, tried to ascertain his feelings, but her feelings weren't accepted [by him]. (#22)

She shook off her feelings for Zero, and, in her attempt to defeat Zero and put an end to everything, fought like a raging lion[ess]. Although she won in a one-on-one duel with Suzaku, she was unable to turn the tide of war and the world surrendered to Lelouch. (#25)

After that, having witnessed the slaying of Emperor Lelouch by Suzaku, who had been impersonating Zero, she came to understand what the two of them had been trying to do, and aided "Zero Requiem" by acknowledging the new Zero. With the world having become a little more peaceful now, she has returned to being a student and, with her feelings for Lelouch kept inside her heart, now lives her life while attending to her mother."

Suzaku's updated profile now reads:

"[...]

However, after Lelouch defeated the Emperor and Suzaku caught a glimpse of what his true intentions for the world were, he decided to assist [Lelouch] this time. He was appointed Knight of Zero, a position surpassing even the Knight of One, and together with Lelouch they set out on the path towards "Zero Requiem". (#22)

Thereafter, Suzaku, regarded as having been killed in action in his battle with Kallen. impersonated Zero and killed Emperor Lelouch, who had become the ruler of the world, thus completing their plan. (#25)

Having become Zero, the world's messiah, he has thrown away his life as Kururugi Suzaku, and will play the role of Zero for the rest of his life, in order to fulfill his promise with Lelouch."

And since we were talking about a sequel, here a line from the Okouchi's Interview. Translated by Celiss Galvea again.

Originally Posted by Celiss Galvea

-----I'll be blunt: Are you thinking of a sequel?

Okouchi: This is a show that's produced great results, so it's certainly true that there have been some suggestions [for a sequel], but for now there are no such plans. As of now (this interview was held September 2008) the final episode still hasn't gone on air yet, so I don't feel like thinking about the future. I'd like to think about it once the final episode has aired and I've heard what the fans have to say. I don't intend to deny the commercial side of anime productions, of course, but I'd like to decide only after knowing what the customers think. Which is why for now, I'm eagerly anticipating the airing of the final episode.*

[Droplet]

Thanks for posting the translatons.

He's been wondering about what the customers think, given the chance of a possible sequel?

Spoil us who want more, Okouchi.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Droplet

Thanks for posting the translatons.

He's been wondering about what the customers think, given the chance of a possible sequel?

Spoil us who want more, Okouchi.

Rofl. Code Geass was a monster in the industry and among the people, so I still think that s sequel will show up.

Well, there are a LOT more infos (about code geass in general) from Celiss, but I don't know if it's really right to post them here. People should search for a secret forum (I won't give the link) and read what she posted.

I will re-read what she translated though, and bring the "most important" infos later.

[Lolipopo]

Well, the biggest proof of Lelouch's end is certainly this one

Okouchi: That's true. There are probably a lot of people who think of it as a Bad End, a tragedy, considering the protagonist's, Lelouch's end as well. However, Lelouch says in the first episode: "Only those prepared to be shot are allowed to pull the trigger themselves." If you were to think of that as his pride, then I think his getting shot (killed) in the end was a logical end. Of course, I understand that not all of the viewers will accept this ending. There were people who wanted a happier ending, after all.

By Celiss

There, it's pretty much clear. About a new serie with a new here I have an hard time to imagine this; Lelouch was an awesome protagnoist and if there was a new guy, comparaison would never end...but I can see some OAV, about maybe, CC's travelling around the world, or about her time with Mao (I'd like to finally know everything about this part)

So, maybe it's not the end for CC, after all she is still alive and immortal, so...

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

By Celiss

There, it's pretty much clear. About a new serie with a new here I have an hard time to imagine this; Lelouch was an awesome protagnoist and if there was a new guy, comparaison would never end...but I can see some OAV, about maybe, CC's travelling around the world, or about her time with Mao (I'd like to finally know everything about this part)

So, maybe it's not the end for CC, after all she is still alive and immortal, so...

As I said, it happened, at least in videogame. And yes, there would be many comparisons, but that doesn't mean they can't create a different, but also awesome in his/her own way new hero.

[npal]

Actually you'd have to ask yourself "who's gonna watch a sequel without Lelouch?" The real question though is "who's gonna buy the merchandise (DVD, figures, etc) afterwards, without Lelouch?" Unlike, say Gundam, the series was successful because of Lelouch. I'd really like seeing them trying to pull a sequel with the characters they have left, in the state they have left them.

Their best chance is with a spin-off. That way, they can use Lelouch again without having to admin being forced to officially raise him from the dead cause the merchandise can't sell as it used to.

[youngde]

I'm not sure if I buy the part about Kallen 'shaking off her feelings for Zero,' unless it means only Zero and not Lelouch, otherwise, she wouldn't have tears in her eyes when attacking Lelouch and she wouldn't have been so vehement in being the one to stop Lelouch herself.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by npal

Actually you'd have to ask yourself "who's gonna watch a sequel without Lelouch?" The real question though is "who's gonna buy the merchandise (DVD, figures, etc) afterwards, without Lelouch?" Unlike, say Gundam, the series was successful because of Lelouch. I'd really like seeing them trying to pull a sequel with the characters they have left, in the state they have left them.

Their best chance is with a spin-off. That way, they can use Lelouch again without having to admin being forced to officially raise him from the dead cause the merchandise can't sell as it used to.

IMO, you give Lelouch too much credits ^^. He was not the only reason.

When people buy mecha figurines, it's not about lelouch for instance.

Code Geass was awesome in many ways. Lelouch is one of the big reasons, but not the only ones.

And it's like saying that Okouchi can't create another awesome Code Geass Hero. Personally, I think the man can.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by youngde

I'm not sure if I buy the part about Kallen 'shaking off her feelings for Zero,' unless it means only Zero and not Lelouch, otherwise, she wouldn't have tears in her eyes when attacking Lelouch and she wouldn't have been so vehement in being the one to stop Lelouch herself.

it means putting her feelings aside
and do what needs to be done
you dont CHOOSE who you love
and you cant STOP loving someone by choice
but she put her feelsing aside and set out to stop him despite of them

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Narona

IMO, you give Lelouch too much credits ^^. He was not the only reason.

When people buy mecha figurines, it's not about lelouch for instance.

Code Geass was awesome in many ways. Lelouch is one of the big reasons, but not the only ones.

And it's like saying that Okouchi can't create another awesome Code Geass Hero. Personally, I think the man can.

Lelouch was the driving force behind what made R1 a success. His poise, personality, wit and flare for the dramatics was the hook that drew in many of the viewers. So it is not giving him too much credit when in fact it is well deserved.

Okouchi could create another awesome Code Geass hero, but the inevitable comparisions with Lelouch will always follow. Lelouch is a character that has been pretty firmly ingrained into the Code Geass universe. Look at Shinn Asuka from GSD. He was a fairly interesting character in the begining but the spotlight was stolen by the returning favourites and Kira who was the king of the character polls. While the situations are different in that Lelouch is dead, his popularity in people's minds will still remain.

[Used Can]

I'll agree with those who said that the biggest reason behind Code Geass' popularity was Lelouch.

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by Used Can

I'll agree with those who said that the biggest reason behind Code Geass' popularity was Lelouch.

Yeah Lelouch was like monstrously popular in Japan(where it actually matters) if you look at some of the character polls in some magazines such as newtype etc. He consistently came out on top as CG's most popular character and the most popular anime character overall.

I'm not saying he's the only reason people watched the show but he was a bloody big part of it.

If they do plan to make a sequel and plan to bring back everyone bar Lelouch then it wouldn't be surprising if Sunrise made Taniguchi, Okuchi or whoever pull a retcon for marketings sake. Why pass up the opportunity for increased sales? Credibility? Screw that Sunrise lost that along time ago.

[shinigami99]

If what okouchi said is true and its up to the fans, then rejoice, im VERY sure we're going to get another series/season.
Personally I dont care what they do, New series without Lelouch?No problem..New season with lelouch somehow alive? No problem. I dont care as long as i get Geass again.

[equinox822]

I watched CG for the fabulous that was Lelouch. It jsut won't be the same with some new character filling his shoes. And I could care less about Ohgi or Kallen's days in the world of peace. Those guys had ridicilously good endings to boot.

If they decide to make a sequel, it will probably be about something that threatens the fragile world peace. It will probably become way too Gundam 00'ish at that point, but knowing Sunrise...

[bladeofdarkness]

what if you have a sequal that pits those characters (suzaku kallen and nunnaly) against a mastermind of lelouch's level who seeks to destroy the peace lelouch created on purpose
i can give you a faint out line of such a world view and villain outline if you want

[npal]

So, in hopes of getting over Lelouch, you create a replica, only starting more on the evil side? The comparison won't just be unavoidable, the new character will majorly fail for being a copy.