[Manga] Naruto Chapter 591 Discussion

[mystogan]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

madara knew the hand seals for edo tensei which apparently release the soul from the technique if performed by the one summoned. that is the risk to the technique because the user loses control of the soul they summoned and as is possible with ET, the summoned soul may be stronger than the user of the technique in the first place (i.e. madara > kabuto). the reason the 2nd hokage couldn't break free from orochimaru was because orochimaru maintained a strong control over him the entire time. when this current ET was released by itachi, all the remaining souls gained a moment of freedom at the end.

it's unclear atm how madara knew the hand seals though. hopefully we will find out next chapter

so like madara knew the hand seals to this technique and he used them to create some variation in the technique and kept himself from fading away, is that how it goes?
and now with the limiter off madara looks like we haven't seen the full extent of his power yet

And isn't 2nd hokage the founder of ET, which was after madara's time, so now we will have to believe that madara knew this technique from the start..... or something else may be

[Hunter]

Madara fought the Senju most of his life, considering it was the 2nd Hokage who invented the jutsu it stands to reason Madara had to face it in battle first hand. Or, perhaps, how to cancel Edo Tensei was part of the peace agreement between the two clans.
The 2nd didn't live after Madara's time (in fact Madara apparently outlived him by many years) he was Hashirama's brother.

Also Madara can still be undone next chapter, he didn't seem to have made the handseals yet which would mean that if the 5 Kages manage to delay him long enough he might still disappear.

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Madara fought the Senju most of his life, considering it was the 2nd Hokage who invented the jutsu it stands to reason Madara had to face it in battle first hand. Or, perhaps, how to cancel Edo Tensei was part of the peace agreement between the two clans.

it's possible. but it's also possible that tobirama came up with edo tensei after he became hokage, and after madara had already been supposedly defeated by hashirama and believed to be dead. so he wouldn't have gotten firsthand knowledge of it, would he? unless kishi clears things up by giving us a flash back about how madara learned how to cancel edo tensei, debates regarding the validity of that little stunt would continue. there are people who would continue to claim it to be an asspull and those who would claim it to be perfectly plausible. personally, i think it's possible. if itachi was able to cancel edo-tensei then why couldn't he? i would appreciate some legitimate explanation from kishi though.

[HasuMasu]

Hey, hey guys, hey. Remember what the Sharingan can do? Do you remember, guys? It can like, analyze hand signs and jutsu formulas right?

Do you guys remember that? Yeah guys, I don't remember it either. There's certainly no way this has anything to do with what Madara just did. Right, guys?

Yeah guys, there's no way that could happen. Right, guys?

[Hunter]

This isn't an either/or case. It was an asspull and there are plausible explanations.

Originally Posted by Detective-san

Hey, hey guys, hey. Remember what the Sharingan can do?

To be honest one could be excused to lose track at this point

[HasuMasu]

^ What? I was ruling out a possibility and pointing out something I don't remember.

Ofcourse, no claims there.

[mystogan]

Originally Posted by Detective-san

Hey, hey guys, hey. Remember what the Sharingan can do? Do you remember, guys? It can like, analyze hand signs and jutsu formulas right?

Do you guys remember that? Yeah guys, I don't remember it either. There's certainly no way this has anything to do with what Madara just did. Right, guys?

Yeah guys, there's no way that could happen. Right, guys?

you know what that actually cannot happen, to analyze a technique, the sharingan user has to see the technique being executed with his own two eyes and i am pretty sure that ever since madara is reincarnated he is continuously fighting the 5 kages and hasn't seen the technique being executed himself
And even after analyzing a technique it only gives information to the sharingan user, to be able to counter it depends on the user's intelligence

i guess the answer to our debate over madara's knowledge of edo tensei probably lies in his past,
but then we can never be sure, Kishi can pull off anything at anytime

[MidnightViper88]

Originally Posted by mystogan

you know what that actually cannot happen, to analyze a technique, the sharingan user has to see the technique being executed with his own two eyes and i am pretty sure that ever since madara is reincarnated he is continuously fighting the 5 kages and hasn't seen the technique being executed himself
And even after analyzing a technique it only gives information to the sharingan user, to be able to counter it depends on the user's intelligence

i guess the answer to our debate over madara's knowledge of edo tensei probably lies in his past,
but then we can never be sure, Kishi can pull off anything at anytime

I get what he's saying, and you just mentioned; Not necessarily anything having to do with Madara learning something during Edo Tensei, but pre-Edo Tensei, when he was still alive and breathing the same air as Tobirama, who gained notoriety for using it, so I'm sure Madara more than caught wind of it at the time...

[thewupk]

Madara obviously knew of the technique from his own time. He even mentioned it when he was revived. I think the obviously explanation without having to over think it is that he learned edo tensei from Tobimaru either when they were fighting against each other or after they formed the leaf. The ass pull is having the summons have total free will for a brief moment in time if the technique is ever cancelled.

[mystogan]

we can only believe that madara was the greatest shinobi to ever exist, and he can do anything, we shouldn't be very surprised if he does something even more godly in the future....., i mean that answer to our speculations can be that he is madara and he can do anything

i guess the war during the Madara's and Hashirama's time were far more deadly and great compared to the fourth shinobi world war, with someone like madara being alive at that time

[Goshin]

^ I think all this just hypes up 1st Hokage instead. because he was the man who defeated him. I don't think we will ever see scenes from his fights because there is now way the author could possibly top himself...

[Mateus]

Originally Posted by Goshin

^ I think all this just hypes up 1st Hokage instead. because he was the man who defeated him. I don't think we will ever see scenes from his fights because there is now way the author could possibly top himself...

Yea and I don't understand how Hashirama was able to beat Madara unless he could do half the stuff Madara could do and more, him just controlling wood does not seem like a viable enough reason as to his victory over Madara. I'm guessing the first also had a large chakra threshold and knew plenty of jutsu (dangerous and forbidden) other than what we saw during the Oro vs Hiruzen fight.

[james0246]

^Madara did not have the Rinnegan way back when, so most of what we've seen in this fight was beyond Madara's capabilities.

[Goshin]

but he did have ems?(can't remember) was it with rinnegan or ems he summoned meteors from the sky?

but yeah you right, fusion of the two makes for one uber opponent. wonder if naruto and sasuke will fuse as well. if not physically then since kyuubi and susanoo are both chakra manifestations maybe the can fuse... just a thought.

[james0246]

The Thread for Chapter 592 has been opened. Please move all relevant discussions to the new thread.