Crunchyroll Promises to Get Rid of Fansubs, Signs Deal to Stream Naruto, Gintama...

[False Dawn]

Originally Posted by Musashi132

the thing i dont get is, if crunchy is offering the episodes FREE after 1 week.. why wont fansub groups release their episodes at the same time as the free episodes come out? a week after the airing of the subscription episode.

Why should they? Fansubbing was started way back when because no legal alternative was offered for international viewers of anime on most series that were airing in Japan. Admittedly, very few groups and fansubbers care much about this any more, but if there's a legal alternative, then is it particularly necessary to spend time subbing a series when CR will A) be quicker and B) the translations will be more accurate because they have the actual script. Seems a waste of time to me.

Having said that, if you know where to look, you'll find that you don't have to rely on Crunchyroll. But then, why not just watch the stream when it's free after a week? It's not like you're losing anything

[Tofusensei]

Originally Posted by Musashi132

i really hate streaming vidz.. and i like to have a collection. I have had naruto in my archives since eps 1.

Your collection of paid-for DVDs, right?

-Tofu

[Slice of Life]

Seeing how Tofu tends to have information on minor details of Crunchyroll's subs the earliest I think I now already know the second person in their subbing team.

[npcomplete]

I don't know if you two have any say on what goes on -- although I'm hoping some influence -- or more insight, as I was feeling pretty positive about the whole CR deal and even subscribed.. so aside from being bummed out from the missing TLs for op/ed and bonus segments .. somehow I feel even more bummed from the terms of agreements about contributing subs, not that I could myself.

I know Quarkboy's post about the PR nightmare from using existing fansubs for prior episodes but like I mentioned in CR's forum, going foward, it would seem much more sensible, more ethical and just plainly more agreeable to all parties to use a Creative Commons license (there are several to chose from) instead of the one stipulated by their current Terms now, which are just.. wrong.

And back to the missing TL issue -- why?

[orion]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Seeing how Tofu tends to have information on minor details of Crunchyroll's subs the earliest I think I now already know the second person in their subbing team.

So basically we have "Industry" members in this thread that aren't identifying themselves as such. Tsk, tsk, tsk....

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by npcomplete

I don't know if you two have any say on what goes on -- although I'm hoping some influence -- or more insight, as I was feeling pretty positive about the whole CR deal and even subscribed.. so aside from being bummed out from the missing TLs for op/ed and bonus segments .. somehow I feel even more bummed from the terms of agreements about contributing subs, not that I could myself.

I know Quarkboy's post about the PR nightmare from using existing fansubs for prior episodes but like I mentioned in CR's forum, going foward, it would seem much more sensible, more ethical and just plainly more agreeable to all parties to use a Creative Commons license (there are several to chose from) instead of the one stipulated by their current Terms now, which are just.. wrong.

And back to the missing TL issue -- why?

Here's the basic reason why, although I'm not sure you'll be satisfied...

Translations have to be approved by the rights holders in Japan. This usually takes a lot of time, and can only be streamlined once they've gotten "used" to a particular translator's work so they trust them to follow the conventions they set down, and that their work is good quality (how exactly they judge that is anyone's guess).
Any user submitted subtitles would have to go through major scrutiny by the people in Japan, and if there were changes that are requested there would need to be some way of setting up contact between the parties, etc etc... In the end it would be almost as complicated, and far slower, than paying a professional translator.

I agree that the current terms for user submitted subs are a joke. But I highly doubt that any user submitted subs would ever be approved for any of the main shows they are streaming anyway because of the above concerns. The only thing I could see it actually being used for is for very short, low budget things (like neko ramen) made by tiny companies that can't afford to pay CR to subtitle their shows but would still like them to stream them.

As for the lack of opening/ending songs, that is usually due to one or two things: One, it might be requested by the rights holders NOT to translate it. This might seem nuts, but sometimes the songs have very odd separate rights, and the lyrics themselves may not be included in the licensing agreement (even if the song itself is)... Like the above, every translation would also have to be approved by the rights holders, and the music is often a completely different company than the anime itself, who is probably not going to be able to handle approving anything in a short time period. It'd probably take them MONTHS. So the only solution other than risking getting sued is to leave the songs unsubbed, or wait eons for all the parties to "approve" the translation.

[npcomplete]

Thanks for the insight. I'm not sure about the benefits overall to the viewers to go through all the scrutiny and red tape, especially when I observe that there is no consistent convention or standard across R1 dvds in either subs or dub script anyways. (If anything, the dub script seems to have almost no scrutiny at all allowing extreme changes to occur, or a different set of rules applied). On the other hand, I do appreciate some form of TL checking.

Perhaps an alternative would be to employ a set of approved TL checkers for submitted subs. These TL checkers could then follow a guideline of only checking for fundamental and grammatical mistakes while allowing for stylistic interpretation particularly for colloquialisms and such. Differences of opinions could be hashed out and discussed openly in public forums. To expedite the process, maybe the TL checker can be given the ability to upload an edited version of the submitted sub and the original TLer the ability to withdraw it later on, or submit further modifications. I think it would a more intimate experience for the fanbase, even for those just lurking.. which brings me to the license. I get the impression that companies in general outside the field of IT (and of those, just a subset of mostly N.A. and Euro industries) are pretty paranoid of anything "open" or permissive.

WRT the lack of OP/ED TLs, I kinda figured it was something like that. However this seems to be a de facto part of the licensing agreement with R1 dvds. But that doesn't explain the situation with TV extras/omake segments though.. or are you saying that it's just "whatever the boss decides"? It's as if the online format is treated like a second class citizen with those distinctions between dvd and online delivery.


Finally, just out of curiousity, does the GE999 and Cap. Harlock CR/Toei release have some relation to the past L-E work?

[Navel]

This thread is irrelevant to all those that don't live in the US and a few other countries. (can we count 5 countries in total ?).

Picking up the hint from others, does this mean "The Daughter of Twenty Faces" has no chances of being finished by L-E anymore ?

[aers]

I don't see why they would drop it, unless it's licensed?

[Vegard Aune]

Originally Posted by Tofusensei

The Gintama sign problem has been fixed.

-Tofu

Not entirely. The sign-sutitles still continue beyond the edges of the frame if there's more than one line on them. So they still need some work.

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by npcomplete

Finally, just out of curiousity, does the GE999 and Cap. Harlock CR/Toei release have some relation to the past L-E work?

As far as I know, Toei animation decided to do GE999 and Cap. Harlock as part of their streaming initiative completely on their own (along with Pretty Cure, Digimon 02, Airmaster, Fist of the North Star, and Slam Dunk), and the translations for the shows were all farmed out to a professional subbing company that does NOT specialize in anime at all...

So, it's just coincidence I think.

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by npcomplete

WRT the lack of OP/ED TLs, I kinda figured it was something like that. However this seems to be a de facto part of the licensing agreement with R1 dvds.

It's a different medium with respect to licensing. The music companies are far less insane when it comes to DVD (aka home video rights). (They are still quite insane though.)

But that doesn't explain the situation with TV extras/omake segments though.. or are you saying that it's just "whatever the boss decides"? It's as if the online format is treated like a second class citizen with those distinctions between dvd and online delivery.

This has to do with it being Viz more than anything.

Finally, just out of curiousity, does the GE999 and Cap. Harlock CR/Toei release have some relation to the past L-E work?

These have actually been known for months because of the source code of the Toei site. Just nobody paid attention to it until it made its way over to CR.

[False Dawn]

Originally Posted by Navel

This thread is irrelevant to all those that don't live in the US and a few other countries.

Why? Most of the simulcast series are shown worldwide (excluding Japan). But I feel like I'm repeating myself and no one seems capable of actually reading so hey, why bother?

[cyth]

Originally Posted by npcomplete

It's as if the online format is treated like a second class citizen with those distinctions between dvd and online delivery.

You simply cannot treat DVD and online distribution the same way. Yeah, both cost money, but so do TV channel subscriptions, and you don't get to see omake there. There's a reason why they call them DVD extras.

[Navel]

Originally Posted by False Dawn

Why? Most of the simulcast series are shown worldwide (excluding Japan). But I feel like I'm repeating myself and no one seems capable of actually reading so hey, why bother?

My bad, it seems the free streams are available from other places as well. The video quality is poor when compared to normal fansub files, but that's a compromise they have to make to allow playback on as many hardware configurations as possible, I guess.

[npcomplete]

Originally Posted by Toua

You simply cannot treat DVD and online distribution the same way. Yeah, both cost money, but so do TV channel subscriptions, and you don't get to see omake there. There's a reason why they call them DVD extras.

But in this case, they are not extras only to be found on DVDs. They are part of the TV program.

[Maxtro]

Now that DB has stopped subbing Naruto I decided to check out crunchyroll. From browsing their website I found out that you can watch free episodes a week after they come out in Japan and in SD. Or you can get a monthly sub for $6.95 and watch the shows in HD shortly after they come out. If Naruto is the only show you watch there, then that's about $1.73 per episode.

Is this the future of anime?

[jsieczkar]

Originally Posted by Maxtro

Now that DB has stopped subbing Naruto I decided to check out crunchyroll. From browsing their website I found out that you can watch free episodes a week after they come out in Japan and in SD. Or you can get a monthly sub for $6.95 and watch the shows in HD shortly after they come out. If Naruto is the only show you watch there, then that's about $1.73 per episode.

Is this the future of anime?

It is the start of the future of anime, the exact nature of how you pay or if you pay will change but the premise is what you will see. Anime looks like it will have an online cable or "broadcast" channel and eventually maybe even multiple channels. Crunchyroll may not be the one that lasts it may be replaced by in house distribution channels or it may grow into the largest internet TV station.

At the same time for this concept to grow a few more large studios will have to sign on, if Madhouse , Gainax, or J.C.Staff sign on to the idea (not necessarily Cruncyroll) most of the other studios will join on as well.

[Vegard Aune]

Originally Posted by Maxtro

Now that DB has stopped subbing Naruto I decided to check out crunchyroll. From browsing their website I found out that you can watch free episodes a week after they come out in Japan and in SD. Or you can get a monthly sub for $6.95 and watch the shows in HD shortly after they come out. If Naruto is the only show you watch there, then that's about $1.73 per episode.

Is this the future of anime?

Probably. But really, they've got quite a lot of shows on there, so there should be something interesting on there aside from Naruto, right? And even if you consider the price to be too high, (which I certainly don't, it's 7$ for 4/5 episodes, whereas DVDs are usually 25$ for the same amount, though admittedly, this has started to change with the switch to half-season-sets for most shows) it's only 7 days, and the quality on the SD-version is still fairly decent.
I'd say that, while the region-lock for certain shows is really frustrating for us who don't live in America, this is a step in the right direction. Fans get to watch the shows for free, the companies get money from the advertisement, fans don't have to worry about the fansubs they're watching getting C&D'd, everyone's happy. (Unless it's region-locked, in which case, only the ones who have access to the show is happy.)

[Maxtro]

I looked through their catalog of shows and sadly Naruto was the only one that appealed to me. Half the shows were listed title coming in Jan 2009 so maybe some other shows will be added.

I have been downloading free fansubs for 9 years so it is hard to get my head around the thought of paying for it. But I do think that I should probably be paying for what I watch.

The cost of the DVD's is irrelevant, if anything I'd compare it to the cost of renting the DVD. I never watch anything more then once and owning a copy is pointless to me.

I am keeping my eyes open and am watching how anime distribution is changing.