Sword Art Online - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Adigard

Also, why are you assuming the program is only downloaded at logout? Why create additional difficulty? Why not simply copy it over immediately?

Well, I guess that was just how I interpreted the dialogue:

Asuna: If the game is cleared and this world ends, what will happen to [Yui]?
Kirito: Yui's data is set to save to my NerveGear's local memory.

So my assumption was that, in the game, she's stored within the item. When the game is over, obviously the item will be gone, so at that point she needs to be stored within his local memory.

You're right that the in-game item might be a pointless bauble designed to appease Asuna, but he did actually explain to her that he "split off her main program and turned it into a game object" and that object was "Yui's Heart". I think it makes more sense to assume that he meant it. I don't think he had the time to create an extra item just to make Asuna feel good; saving Yui was all there was time for. Perhaps we can say that the item itself is bound to Kirito's local memory, and is just manifesting itself through that in-game item right now.

[TheLuckyShadow]

Honestly, it isn't that hard to believe that Kirito could do something like this, all he would have to do is copy Yui's data and convert it to an existing game object model (presumably if Yui was recreated in her original form then the Cardinal system would have recognized that her data was the same and would have deleted her again). For someone with Kirito's programming prowess (many people have already indicated the evidence for this) and his obsession with Kayaba would have meant that he was familiar with the basics of the system commands.

[mod edit: remove reference to later content; not allowed in anime threads]

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Please don't post the kind of thing, even if you're joking.

Ah, sorry; I was just teasing (I don't seriously think you're wrong at all), but I can see how it could be construed as douchey just the same.

So I'm off to watch the episode then. Wish me luck minna-san.

[jpwong]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Hm, no. Reading a book (or a bunch of web pages) about programming and becoming a great programmer is being a quick learner. Being dumped in front of a computer and just knowing the relevant commands to do whatever it is you need to do without having had an opportunity to learn them is poor writing.

I think the thing is that SOA was probably built on some standard coding language. If you know that language you'd be miles ahead of normal people. There's also that as has sort of been pointed out, it's doubtful a GM console is going to just be a command prompt window. It's almost certainly set up in a way that's easy to use.

Maybe all those fancy colours actually get translated into something meaningful on the user's nervgear. I don't think they showed us the screen from the "player" perspective at all.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Adigard

She's basically locked out of 100% of system access, because she's totally incapable of doing the task she was created for (helping mentally unstable players). That doesn't sound much like 'having admin privileges' to me.

Someone with no admin privileges shouldn't be able to find that admin console to begin with. She also used that hax sword which obviously broke the rules of the game otherwise the Cardinal program wouldn't have attacked her.

[Maxtro]

Originally Posted by Vanish

I baffled when I saw this many children are in SAO. But then I remembered the countless kiddies who play all kind of stuff... CoD could be one example though there's plenty of non-shooter games.

Yeah, I was also surprised at the number of young kids playing.

There's also a bunch of old people playing as well. The guys in Episode 11, fishing at the lake must have been at least 50-60 years old (unless the Japanese age really quickly )

SAO does seem to be an all ages game.

[Kmos]

Kirito and Asuna tried to use a santouryuu defense vs The Fatal Scythe, but they're no Zoro. Looks like a 50% health attack skill, just speculating. Also, Kirito isn't wearing his crappy guild outfit.

Yui could've made clearing the game easy by intercepting all attacks while Kirito and Asuna get blows in. Good arc but there's something that makes it seem like a side story. Insert and remove like earlier side stories, especially if she can be game breaking and seemed like a useless program Kayaba should've turned off with what he was planning. Sorry if mentioned, but I didn't read previous posts and probably won't read after my post.

[Mura]

Wait, that was Shiraishi Ryoko? Totally didn't notice her without the Kansai Dialect.

Sad to see Yui go but now Kirito and Asuna have even more of a reason to finish this game. Also Kirito, Asuna may love you but that doesn't mean she'll cook those frog legs.

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Well, I guess that was just how I interpreted the dialogue:

Asuna: If the game is cleared and this world ends, what will happen to [Yui]?
Kirito: Yui's data is set to save to my NerveGear's local memory.

So my assumption was that, in the game, she's stored within the item. When the game is over, obviously the item will be gone, so at that point she needs to be stored within his local memory.

You're right that the in-game item might be a pointless bauble designed to appease Asuna, but he did actually explain to her that he "split off her main program and turned it into a game object" and that object was "Yui's Heart". I think it makes more sense to assume that he meant it. I don't think he had the time to create an extra item just to make Asuna feel good; saving Yui was all there was time for. Perhaps we can say that the item itself is bound to Kirito's local memory, and is just manifesting itself through that in-game item right now.

Yui's Heart being that jewel is a thematic retroactive callback to episode 3 - notice that item, Pina's Heart, which was later used alongside the Pnuema Flower to revive Pina. (Except this time it's a heart-shaped jewel instead of a feather, but I digress).

I figure it's essentially the same process, only this time without the time limit. The ingame object Yui's Heart is a representation of the saved data that makes up Yui.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Yui's Heart being that jewel is a thematic retroactive callback to episode 3 - notice that item, Pina's Heart, which was later used alongside the Pnuema Flower to revive Pina. (Except this time it's a heart-shaped jewel instead of a feather, but I digress).

I figure it's essentially the same process, only this time without the time limit. The ingame object Yui's Heart is a representation of the saved data that makes up Yui.

Right, I know. I pointed out the call-back way back on the first page of the thread. But I guess the question is: does the jewel (the inventory item) actually matter or not? Or, in other words, could Kirito have downloaded Yui's data into his personal NerveGear storage without creating an in-game item? If the object is damaged/destroyed, does anything happen to Yui's program?

This was in response to the following comment:

Originally Posted by Adigard

Occam's razor suggests that he likely simply copied Yui's programming code to his NervGEAR, and then spawned a physical item and gave it to Asuna. We technically didn't SEE the item's name in the standard in-game screen for every single other item of importance. Heck, he could have simply created an item, named it such, and downloaded Yui's code to his NervGEAR.

Also, why are you assuming the program is only downloaded at logout? Why create additional difficulty? Why not simply copy it over immediately?

Edit: To be clear, I do realize it doesn't really matter. Well, if Yui's program is actually actively linked to the item, then it could be important, I guess... but it's mostly just for the sake of conversation than anything else. The real value of having the item is that it will serve as a reminder for Kirito, Asuna, and us in the audience for the remainder of the show.

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Right, I know. I pointed out the call-back way back on the first page of the thread. But I guess the question is: does the jewel (the inventory item) actually matter or not? Or, in other words, could Kirito have downloaded Yui's data into his personal NerveGear storage without creating an in-game item? If the object is damaged/destroyed, does anything happen to Yui's program?

I'm quite thankful that the Light Novels never explicitly got into this, which means we can both speculate/discuss freely, without that Damocles Sword hanging over my head

I'd think that the jewel matters, because looking at Pina's Heart, it's a physical manifestation of the data, which is required to revive the being. Notice that everything in SAO, when it dies, dissipates into light - my guess is that's representative of what happens to the data, which disappears.

Logically, if there is any damage to the object, I would be very afraid that Yui's program would likewise be damaged as well.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Hm, no. Reading a book (or a bunch of web pages) about programming and becoming a great programmer is being a quick learner. Being dumped in front of a computer and just knowing the relevant commands to do whatever it is you need to do without having had an opportunity to learn them is poor writing.

[mod edit: removed unrevealed novel information]

That said, look at his rig in episode 1. It's suggestive, that he'd know what he's doing. It's a setup suggestive that he's a computer enthusiast.

Anyhow, all in all, this was a solid ep, and again they trimmed out what wasn't totally crucial, and stuck to what was important. Can't fault them there. Also, last bit was complete tearjerker. ;___;

[Endless Soul]

I'm amazed that after (supposedly) two years in the game, people still haven't learned to NOT run blindly down a passage before checking it out. It's a good thing Kirito was on his toes. His eyes looked pretty cool while in scan mode.

I noticed while Yui was explaining herself, and showing pictures of players in the early days, Asuna was among those in the pictures. Or at least, someone who has the same hairstyle and color as Asuna.

Endless "MHCP001" Soul

[itoastmysocks]

The whole programming having to look flashy is something that they have been doing since the early 80's and it's still the same problem as it is then, you animate in a fancy way that would never really work in reality, just to keep the viewer entertained, seriously would your standard anime fan enjoy someone typing several lines of code in say... c++ ? What they have done here was pretty harmless compared to say.. Hackers..

Also I would imagine that being part of such an exclusive Betatest as it probably was for SAO, they should have weeded out those that are not tech-savvy or don't understand their basic code, simply for finding errors, bugs, and what not ([randommmorant]but again they made the same mistake as every MMO developer does these days, THEY FORGET TO TEST THE ENDGAME[/randommmorant])

As for the more important parts of the episode, I really enjoyed it, it's rare that you find a character that is cute, but not overly annoying at the same time.

[FlareKnight]

God that was close. I thought we had another Sachi loss on our hands there. But Kirito managed to step up in the nick of time and save the day. Close call, but well done.

Though I'm not sure what they are going to do with her data once they get out. Maybe get a really advanced computer that she's constantly displayed in?

[Krono]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Though I'm not sure what they are going to do with her data once they get out. Maybe get a really advanced computer that she's constantly displayed in?

That or get another VR environment to put her in. Something local would have to be smaller than SAO, but it wouldn't need to be all that big.

[HandofFate]

alrite conclusion.

I enjoyed the lovey dovey parts of the first part more than this rescue episode.

Yui turning out to be part of the game system was predictable.
The whole thing with Kirito messing around with the computer was meh.

If he had that much time to do that, he should have turned off the game and set everyone free. Dumb kirito...

[~Yami~]

nooo... Yui don't leave us!!!

I like how Yui use that flaming sword.... she's just like Shana... lol! (our of topic!)

this episode feels too short for me... I like Asuna's reaction about that frog leg... another quarrel from our newly-wed couple

Yui's disappearance is painful for me... while Kirito's hacking ability somehow save Yui miraculously
I believe Kirito-Asuna isn't the first married couple in this game (there already some references in previous episode) but somehow Yui said that only both of them showed up lots of positive emotions...

[mod edit: remove novel-based hints]

[SilverSyko]

Btw, just a random thing that I forgot to mention earlier, but I found Yui's reaction to Kirito chopping up dozens of enemy frogs rather amusing. It's like she enjoys watching them get sliced to bits.

Originally Posted by Xacual

I felt attached to her, you don't need to have 20 episodes of character development to be attached to a character.

I have no idea how you can grow attached to a character in such a quick amount of time. Especially when they've hardly done anything.

[Pocari_Sweat]

This was a terrible episode. That end bit with Yui is probably the biggest asspull/deus ex bulls*#@ I've seen along the same level as certain Guilty Crown and Aquarion EVOL episodes. This was partly due to the fact pacing was ridiculously fast which led to Yui's character development being beyond insufficient and partly because the first half of the episode was more or less "sad loli pandering" which made it even more ridiculous when she popped the can of woopass out of no where against the reaper boss. Yes, it was somewhat foreshadowed that the game mechanics in SAO aren't as crystal clear and flawless in glitches and hacks, but sorry, I am absolutely not buying this development - definitely not in what was effectively 1.5 episodes in Yui development.

Extremely disappointing after what were some pretty decent relationship development episodes between Asuna and Kirito.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat

... which made it even more ridiculous when she popped the can of woopass out of no where against the reaper boss. Yes, it was somewhat foreshadowed that the game mechanics in SAO aren't as crystal clear and flawless in glitches and hacks, but sorry, I am absolutely not buying this development - definitely not in what was effectively 1.5 episodes in Yui development.

Wait... what development is it that you're having a hard time accepting exactly? The "can of woopass" isn't about "game mechanics" or "glitches or hacks". She was using the GM Access Portal to give herself a super-weapon to erase the boss. She could do this because she was the manifestation of a game system (like an NPC, but much more sophisticated). With system level-access like that, there should be no problem in spawning whatever weapon you'd like, including weapons made especially for GMs/Administrators that can kill any top-level boss. But of course, this sort of thing destroys the game balance, so the main AI that runs the game wouldn't allow that sort of "unfair" element to exist in its programming.

At first I thought you were annoyed by the fact that Kirito was able to download Yui's system from the computer (which we've talked about a lot), but then when you started talking about this I was confused. I never considered *that* aspect all that surprising....