Gurren-Lagann - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll

[musashiken]

Of course he hesitates. Duh. The key thing is that Rossiu no longer believes in Simon's spiral powers. They are no longer the kids they were, they are now in an advanced society compared to 7 years ago. Rossiu doesn't believe in Simon and persists in believing that calm logic, new technology and laws are what humans should be using not reckless hotbloodedness. If he decides to give in by believing in Simon, then all the 7 years he spent creating the current society based on his beliefs will just go down the drain.

Would human civilization have advanced to such an orderly state if all decisions made were based on mere hotblooded whims? The thing is Simon has done little political governing in 7 years and relies on Rossiu to hold everything together. Rossiu is not obliged to trust in Simon's Gar powers because he has achieved what he has now by his own hands, not Gar decisions. Yeah I don't agree with Rossiu, but that's how life works. And that's what Gainax is trying to tell us.

Face it, Simon is too kind to argue with Rossiu about political decisions, he's good at putting his Gar powers to use on the battle field. On the other hand, Rossiu is too logical and takes all responsibility into his own hands. This has caused Simon to be slack and Rossiu to be hardened in 7 years. With Yoko not around, Nia being happy go lucky, and Kittan and company enjoying peace, once something happens, everything falls to shambles.

[CSakuraS]

Originally Posted by musashiken

Face it, Simon is too kind to argue with Rossiu about political decisions, he's good at putting his Gar powers to use on the battle field.

I dunno, I thought he made himself pretty clear whenever he disagreed with Rossiu, whether it was "STFU I'M TRYING TO PROTECT THE CITY" or calling Rossiu on the similarity of his actions to what happened at Adai village. Though I agree that Simon could have taken charge more and been more forceful with the other members of the Gurren Brigade. I think he was just used to everyone doing what they needed to do without having to tell them, like on the Dai-Gurren. He has the skills for leadership IMO, just not very much experience.

But I wouldn't want Simon to lose that laid-back part of his personality; it's one of the things that make him different from Kamina, who was pretty hyperactive in comparison.

[Kirarakim]

Simon is so laid back because he knows if it's not 0%, it's 100% possible. With those odd's I'd be laid back too.

[CSakuraS]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Simon is so laid back because he knows if it's not 0%, it's 100% possible. With those odd's I'd be laid back too.

Hahaha, true. All the stars in the heavens are attacking? Pfft, that's nothing, we've got 100%.

[arkon]

Originally Posted by musashiken

Simon's love Nia betrayed him and he just went wtf and had no idea what to do. People are stupid and see him as the cause for their sudden predicament. They want blood and do needless rioting, Rossiu sentenced Simon to appease them. Extreme but logical and a quick temporary solution.

.

Wouldn't it have been more logical to focus on the impending doom that was about to befall the earth? Like say "We're all gonna die if we don't do something but don't worry we have evacuation plans in place. Government officials will be coming along shortly to begin the evacuation process. Please be patient and follow instructions calmly, we're doing our best to ensure that everyone is safe."

That'd give the rioting crowd something to worry about, after all I'd think they'd be more worried about saving themselves than seeing Simon put to the death. I just don't see the reason why it had to be mentioned at all. Even with wasting time holding that "fair trial". Surely that time would have been better spent doing other things, related to the evacuation/moon falling down. Like planning ahead on what they would do if they came up against resistance whilst in space etc...

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by musashiken

Of course he hesitates. Duh. The key thing is that Rossiu no longer believes in Simon's spiral powers. They are no longer the kids they were, they are now in an advanced society compared to 7 years ago. Rossiu doesn't believe in Simon and persists in believing that calm logic, new technology and laws are what humans should be using not reckless hotbloodedness. If he decides to give in by believing in Simon, then all the 7 years he spent creating the current society based on his beliefs will just go down the drain.

Would human civilization have advanced to such an orderly state if all decisions made were based on mere hotblooded whims? The thing is Simon has done little political governing in 7 years and relies on Rossiu to hold everything together. Rossiu is not obliged to trust in Simon's Gar powers because he has achieved what he has now by his own hands, not Gar decisions. Yeah I don't agree with Rossiu, but that's how life works. And that's what Gainax is trying to tell us.

Face it, Simon is too kind to argue with Rossiu about political decisions, he's good at putting his Gar powers to use on the battle field. On the other hand, Rossiu is too logical and takes all responsibility into his own hands. This has caused Simon to be slack and Rossiu to be hardened in 7 years. With Yoko not around, Nia being happy go lucky, and Kittan and company enjoying peace, once something happens, everything falls to shambles.

Would human civilization have advanced to such an evolved state without forethought, dreams, and the desire to make the impossible possible?
After all, everything possible were merely impossible things that had been done.

All you are claiming thus far, is that we need more than hot blood or GAR in the world, that we need logic and detached thinking. But Simon never denied that, that's why Rossiu's involved in the government. Not once did Simon tried to tell Rossiu how to do his job, back when they worked together, because he knew guts and courage isn't enough. Together, the two of them could strike a balance.

But that's not what Rossiu want, and that's what I am disagreeing. Rossiu wanted Simon's ideals removed completely. That hot blood and courage should not exist period. He wanted a society that is only logic and detached, cold hearted thinking. A world where human lives are a mere statistic.

#####
So please, there is no point trying to defend what Rossiu stood for; we all know his methods are often necessary. But it is a mistake to claim that is all that was needed to create a functional society.

[musashiken]

I am not claiming anything. I am not even defending Rossiu. I'm just trying to make sense of the logic behind Rossiu's actions. You can argue with me all you want. This is purely subjective. And also, there's no proof of what Rossiu really thinks. Everything said so far are just our thoughts. Only Gainax can explain to us what's going on, if they choose to.

The only thing I know for sure is that one person still understands Rossiu and that is Kinon. I just don't know why. Do you?

[seraphon]

Originally Posted by musashiken

The only thing I know for sure is that one person still understands Rossiu and that is Kinon. I just don't know why. Do you?

Because she wants to be laid on?
When in love, anime woman often follw man that do very stupid things....

[wana10]

i think this is simply a case of love is blind. kinon has a major thing for rossiu and its allowing her to overlook some of his other actions. also, don't forget that he has his own crew of followers, its just that they're not as hard core as the gurren-dan so they don't get as much screen time

[Ninjacat]

Originally Posted by musashiken

I am not claiming anything. I am not even defending Rossiu. I'm just trying to make sense of the logic behind Rossiu's actions. You can argue with me all you want. This is purely subjective. And also, there's no proof of what Rossiu really thinks. Everything said so far are just our thoughts. Only Gainax can explain to us what's going on, if they choose to.

The only thing I know for sure is that one person still understands Rossiu and that is Kinon. I just don't know why. Do you?

As it already been said, love is blind. Kinon isn't acting like she understands Rossiu, she's just following his lead like all his other cronies. In this she made a mistake, Rossiu needed a partner back then.

Rossiu's actions weren't evil per se, but he's shown a severe lack of class. He never tried to find an alternative to murdering his best friend, never asked anyone about it. He even went so far as treating Simon like an insect to be crushed. After a really bogus trial, he threw Simon, former savior of humanity and fallen commander, in prison with hundreds of inmates who have nothing better to do than lynch him. Viral saved Simon's life back there! Finally leaving him to die alone in a dark cold cell while he was running away, proving there was no need to execute him in the first place...

I'm not the Rossiu hater I once was, mainly because I feel Rossiu is already punishing himself much harshly than Simon ever would. Still, forgive my lack of sympathy.

Rossiu was never a great leader, he was merely a great administrator. He might have been Kamina City's architect, but the will to build it and the openness to this new culture were the work of Kamina and Simon.

[musashiken]

Well the thing is this. Some of us here hates Rossiu to the core, some think that he's not bad but just made stupid mistakes. Others are probably neutral and don't give a shit about Rossiu.

[jtrog]

I'm amazed at how Simon could maintain his mental state while being held in the cell for so long waiting to be executed and next to Virl at that. Wouldn't he be mad enough to at least slap Rossiu across the back of the head hard enough to knock him down and then say 'well thats that'.

Nice to see Yoko back in full force. What will they find to replace the moon?

[wana10]

i'm gonna guess the giant floating battleship will act as a temporary moon.

[Ninjacat]

Originally Posted by jtrog

I'm amazed at how Simon could maintain his mental state while being held in the cell for so long waiting to be executed and next to Virl at that. Wouldn't he be mad enough to at least slap Rossiu across the back of the head hard enough to knock him down and then say 'well thats that'.

Nice to see Yoko back in full force. What will they find to replace the moon?

I'm not so sure he maintained his sanity all that well. He looks more dangerous since he got out, harder.

[Nidema]

woot

great eps

still cheering for yoko x simon!

To jtrog:

well it is simon, he is suppose to be piercing the heavens with his drill. not surprised at all that he maintained his sanity. and bah... who needs a new moon

[Deathkillz]

extreme gar mode never would have expected arc gurren to be a hidden gunmen and talk about looking super cool :3
so nia can be saved from the looks of it but ill prefer another tragic hit for simon (its about time yoko got her man XD)

[lightbringer]

Originally Posted by Ninjacat

I'm not so sure he maintained his sanity all that well. He looks more dangerous since he got out, harder.

I think Kamina was never quite sane to begin with, and it rubbed off on Simon. In fact, quite a number of characters in this show have a few screws loose. I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's nothing compared to the liberal application of Anime Physics in the Gurren universe.

[Nacyl]

does anybody know of the track that started around 4:18 in this episode?

[darkdarkdark]

Originally Posted by Nacyl

does anybody know of the track that started around 4:18 in this episode?

If it's the techno sounding music, then sadly no