Hanasaku Iroha - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[Deconstructor]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

One thing I've studied a great deal in College and University is business and politics over the past hundred to two hundred years. Positive changes never occurred in those fields (or on the many areas of life impacted on by them) by people calmly accepting injustice. They were due very much to the contrary. They were due to people having ideals that they were striving towards, and/or a strong personal sense of justice (in many cases, quite similar to Ohana in this anime) that they acted upon.

Certainly, but if you choose to look at the negative side of idealism, you might come to the conclusion it does more harm than good. Ohana tries to fight injustice all by herself - in doing so she neglects to think about what her family at Kissuiso are feeling as she runs away to Tokyo. Ohana sits out in the rain without care for her health, can't give a straight answer to her best friend, and nearly gets car-raped by a bunch of perverted older men. Is this a result of her childhood idealism? Maybe not the last one, but the first two I would argue are because of Ohana's supreme desire to stand against injustice.

That American writer is wrong, in my opinion.

Actually, I think you agree with him more than you'd like to think.

Consider that the majority of idealists don't really institute much change in society. Sometimes this is because they simply don't have the political or economic power to bring about change - the majority simply hide within their ideals, as if they were caves. People like to talk, don't they? But turning conversation into action is an entirely different matter. I like to think I can fix the economic problems of the world, but really don't do a lot about the 1 billion people who make less than $1 a day.

And then you have the worst case... people who both have the power to bring about change and speak like they will, but in reality are reinforcing the injustices for their own self-interest. Rich and powerful people like speaking against the wholly unfair issues plaguing society, but only from their luxurious vantage point. The writer I quoted was F. Scott Fitzgerald. He wrote a few books in his lifetime, probably the most famous of which deals with how corrupt the majority of rich people are.

However, the quote isn't mainly criticizing people's reluctance to act upon their own beliefs. Mainly it's concerned with how narrow an idealist's field of vision becomes when they exist only within their own little cave. Like Ohana, who camps outside her mother's workplace in hopes of changing her mind. To even further exemplify the quote's point, Ohana says she would spend the rest of her life doing so until her mother changed her mind (or died). Seriously, Ohana... you have so many other things to do, so many people who care for you, but you're so obsessed with fighting injustice that you've lost sight of who you really are.

Originally Posted by Flower

This is one of the main things episode 11 (and perhaps one of the main themes of the series overall thus far?) seems to be dealing ... and in a poignant, effective way imo. To me Satsuki has compromised too much and become a little too jaded (she is not yet "extinguished" it seems, or leading a life of "quiet desperation"). Ohana has not yet "compromised" much but is just beginning to face the situation all of us have to face. No real "decisions" were given in the chapter, no "judgements" per se, but the presentation of the characters in of themselves evokes thoughts on the subject in general and makes us think about it. Imo it would not hurt for more of us to be reminded about this.

Part of the reason I liked episode 11 so much is because both sides of the cynicism vs. idealism debate were explicated, and in a mostly objective manner. In simple English I mean Ohana represents idealism, and Satsuki cynicism - both of them had justifiable, reasonable cases for their positions. When they clashed, I didn't feel the writer was personally favoring one side over the other. While Satsuki "won" in episode 11, one of the points for cynicism is the fact most idealists don't really have the power to change anything (at least not yet). Indeed, this is part of the moral argument for idealism I find convincing: Fighting against injustice despite the insurmountable odds.

[Flower]

Originally Posted by Deconstructor

....Part of the reason I liked episode 11 so much is because both sides of the cynicism vs. idealism debate were explicated, and in a mostly objective manner. In simple English I mean Ohana represents idealism, and Satsuki cynicism - both of them had justifiable, reasonable cases for their positions. When they clashed, I didn't feel the writer was personally favoring one side over the other. While Satsuki "won" in episode 11, one of the points for cynicism is the fact most idealists don't really have the power to change anything (at least not yet). Indeed, this is part of the moral argument for idealism I find convincing: Fighting against injustice despite the insurmountable odds.

I agree with your evaluation of the ep - we seem to have seen similar things in it.

But I would add one other point regarding the moral argument for idealism, and for what it is worth this is just my own opinion, of course, and based on my own experience.

I generally find that those who have preserved their idealism (especially in a balanced, healthy and I would even say strong way) are generally much happier people.

More than that. They tend to catalyst change in others in quiet, unnoticeable ways and even attract people who have become jaded (or cynicists, as you called them) through understandable weakness or any other number of understandable reasons to themselves.

I would even say that a large number of people yearn for such people to be around and be a sort of "living inspiration" that there are other alternatives for ways in which life can be lived.

I think that also contributes to why portrayals of those who keep their idealism in difficult situations tend to be popular in literature, multimedia entertainment, etc. throughout the ages.

Again, this is just my opinion, and I am sure there will be others who disagree with it - but to me this element I have seen in people who have preserved their idealism in a "wholesome, integral" way is one of the most convincing "moral arguments" for idealism. Because it goes beyond the realm of intellectual argument.

I sincerely hope Ohana will grow into such a person throughout the rest of the series!

[magrat]

I think this episode really encapsulated what I love most about this anime. It pits Ohana's youthful enthusiasm and idealism against some harsh realities of life.

Love or hate the characters and the situation, the many thoughtful and heartfelt posts about child raising, professional ethics, the tension between the ideals of youth and the more jaded and practical compromises of adulthood really reflect why this is a effective coming of age story. It's all in good fun but so many anime forum posts are mainly about "who's stronger", "who can beat up who" and "who deserves to be with who". Don't get me wrong I enjoy reading these types of posts (*** tohru x ohana*** yep just straight up stating my preferences.), but I like that this episode can bring about such a number of serious as well as lighter topics for discussion.

So, while I don't like Satsuki's character, I like her complexity. The whole review situation happens in real life, right or wrong. Ohana's inability to answer Ko's confession makes sense from the standpoint that she never thought about her friend this way.

Ohana is not one of those boy crazy girls and from that I gather she is rather immature when it comes to matters of the heart. For all those who can relate to Ko's situation, let me turn it around. Have you ever thought of someone totally as a friend and then have them tell you they like you? Or find out someone you don't have romantic feelings for really likes you. Even if flattered, doesn't that put pressure on you to respond? How comfortable would you feel around them if you weren't sure about your feeling or felt the same way? Can you still be friends if you don't respond positively to them? I think Ohana intuitively knows that either way her relationship to the one person she could always count on will change fundamentally and forever no matter what she says. Hence her hesitation to answer.

All in all, fantastic episode, makes people think and makes for very interesting discussion. 10/10

(I like Hollywood light romantic comedies, but if they have an episode(s) where Ohana exposes her mother's deceit. Mom has sudden change of heart, makes up with her mom (Sui) and declares that she will be a better mom to Ohana. Customers start flooding into ryokans of the town. Ohana accepts Ko's declaration of love and says she will move back to Tokyo just to be with him and they kiss while standing in front of Kissuiso and a bunch of customers and the staff of Kissuiso applaud. My heart will break. And then I will throw-up).

[Master Chibi]

I just watched 11 episodes of this yesterday because my friend told me I'd fall in love with Ohana.

He was right. I usually detest girls like Ohana in anime, but this show is doing everything so right that everything is natural without any of it feeling forced whatsoever. She's like the direct middle ground that I think we all represent, where we're neither good or bad, smart or stupid, but simply human. This episode was great proof of not falling into the idealistic trope always winning out, keeping things realistic but still very much engrossing and entertaining.

Also I would loooooooooooooooove to date Ohana / someone like Ohana. What a fucking adorable little wonderfully amazing person. Seriously.

[EroKing]

Has anyone made a gif of this?

[Roger Rambo]

Fest up that poll ohana! Fest it up with your face!

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Fest up that poll ohana! Fest it up with your face!

What a balut pole! It should "go and die"!

[Lessing-love]

So talented, Ohana. So talented. Show that pole who's boss.

I feel kinda bad for her when those creepy guys in the car show up. I strongly suspect that whatever dim awareness Ohana has of male sexuality, it's not positive. And she already has a tendency to dress and act in a way that infantalizes herself, but as she gets older, it's getter harder and harder to stave off male attention. Ohana's innocence is screwed.

[Jonothon]

Yeah, I would love to see Nako and Youriis backstories. They are great characters and should be given, like Tomoe, a chance to sparkle.

But the biggest gaping hole is the backstory is Ohana's dad. Nothing has been mentioned and this could give so much insight in the problems of Satsuki and her mother. It could even give insight into Ohana's possible aversion to anything other than a friendship?

Has anyone else noticed nothing said about Ohana's dad? It's such an obvious thing to speak about, but so far its been like an elephant in the room that is ignored.

[Roger Rambo]

I'm thinking that we might find out in this episode. Since it's presumably going to deal more with Satsuki's and Sui's relationship and their past.

[Pengu]

Satsuki has about every trait I despise in a woman.
Yes, she is beautiful and cheerful but just awful in every sense of the way.
She is so self centered it isn't even funny. Always thought of noone but herself, which is especially awful if you have kids, which she did.
Just to add on that she got a job which enhances that personailty even more
and she changes boyfriends faster than lightbulbs.
But it is nice for a change to have some contrast in the anime as the other female leads are almost perfect. I mean the 4 16 year old girls the story is mostly about are all in the top 10 of the most beautiful and sweetest in the entire school...
Still looks like a Kyo*Ohana ending to me.
The episode itself gets 9/10 as it was very good.