2009-10-24, 07:13 | Link #2581 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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There is actually that possibility.
in ep5 we have been presented a situation where an incident who lead to the death of a maid and a baby (or so it seem) and clearly Beatrice had nothing to do with it. However we can see how Beatrice claimed to be the one who did, all that to cover the truth about the real culprit. therefore I can say: Beatrice is a scapegoat. She claims to be the culprit to cover an unbearable truth. It is a truth that Battler himself cannot accept, similarly to ep2 where Battler doesn't want to suspect anyone, Beatrice is giving him an alternative: it was the witch, it was done with magic, there's no need to suspect anyone else. Explaining the actions of real Beatrice is a lot tougher 'though... it seems that there's been a long preparation for this crime. If real Beatrice isn't the culprit, what kind of relation exists between them? How can the bank accounts be explained?
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2009-10-24, 12:09 | Link #2582 |
Starcraft Wizard
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 34
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Another episode one puzzle.
At the climax of episode one, Battler hears a single gunshot. Spoiler for image:
Then when him and the rest arrive shortly after, it is Natsuhi's gun which has recently discharged. Spoiler for image:
Later the culprit kills Battler, despite Battler pointing Natsuhi's gun at them. Spoiler for image:
What's going on here? Here's my theory: Shannon is dressed as Beatrice and has a gun that is similar in appearance to Natsuhi's, that is loaded with four blanks and a live round. Natsuhi comes around the corner to where the duel was arranged, and then gets shot in the head by Shannon before she can react. Shannon takes Natsuhi's gun, and replaces the gun in Natsuhi's cooling hands with her own. Battler and the rest arrive. Maria hugs Shannon. As the clock strikes midnight Shannon and Maria laugh manically. Battler unloads all four blanks into Shannon. Shannon shoots Battler. The game is over when the detective dies. The game is over at midnight. Game over. |
2009-10-24, 12:26 | Link #2584 | |
Starcraft Wizard
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 34
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Quote:
What am I still assuming. Actually let me change my theory a bit. Swap Shannon with Kanon. I think that Shannon is dead. In this scene Battler says that he can't count the bodies in the shed on one hand, which would imply that Battler saw six bodies in the shed. Spoiler for image:
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2009-10-24, 12:35 | Link #2585 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Quote:
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2009-10-24, 12:49 | Link #2586 | |
Starcraft Wizard
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 34
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Well, purple text is stuff that follows unambiguously from Battler's observations:
The thing that shot Natsuhi wasn't a trap, it was a real shooting murder with a gun raised and trigger pulled! Only one shot was fired in the witch's duel with Natsuhi. When Battler finds Natsuhi's body, a gun that has recently discharged is in Natsuhi's hand. From these premises I conclude that: The gun that the culprit used to shoot Natsuhi is in Natsuhi's hand when Battler finds Natsuhi. There is no way for the gun the culprit used to shoot Natsuhi to get into Natsuhi's hand before her body hits the floor. So yeah. Fuck the anime, the anime fails. In the visual novel the gunshot rings out right after they break down the door in the common area that Natsuhi rigged shut. Then they find Natsuhi's body well after she hits the floor. Quote:
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2009-10-24, 13:05 | Link #2587 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: a better place than here
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Quote:
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2009-10-24, 13:09 | Link #2588 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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Quote:
Furthermore, in the anime, Natsuhi's gun wasn't smoking, and Battler didn't have to rechamber a round before he fired his first shot at the portrait. On that basis, we can conclude that the gun Natsuhi is holding was never fired in the first place. Last edited by LyricalAura; 2009-10-24 at 13:22. |
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2009-10-24, 13:29 | Link #2591 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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However I can imagine other possible scenarios that are compatible with the anime
Case one: Natsuhi's gun didn't fire. Battler is not a dog, unless he sniffed Natsuhi's gun it was impossible for him to be sure the odor came from that gun. It is possible that he smelled the gunpowder of the other gun that fired. The projectile that he expelled before firing to Beatrice wasn't spent. Case two: Natsuhi and the culprit fired at the very same time. Since Battler and the others were on another room they weren't close enough to discern with clarity if it was a single shot or two simultaneus shot. The shot happened in a very big hall, so the reverberation could have been attributed to the echo. Anyway I do believe that your reconstruction makes more sense, but I can't completely rule out other possibilities that wouldn't make me think the anime completely failed. Quote:
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2009-10-24, 13:43 | Link #2592 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: a better place than here
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Of course, that doesn't mean it couldn't have been another gun. That same gun could have been the one that killed George in EP4. |
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2009-10-24, 13:44 | Link #2593 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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You'd have to question what the culprit would gain from switching the guns. If she had the time to take the gun from Natsuhi, why replace it at all? She doesn't need to arm the cousins at this point. And it's not like leaving the gun makes it look like some brilliant magical murder; in this instance, Natsuhi has pretty clearly been shot and has not been staked.
If the culprit wants to kill the children, there's not much reason to not just wait for them to rush out where Natsuhi is and gun them down from Battler down to Maria. It's possible that the culprit actually didn't intend to harm the children, and the gun was left there for some reason that the culprit assumed wouldn't be a threat to her (was empty, was loaded with blanks, she was hiding in a secure location, etc.). However, even if Battler had a real gun with live ammo, we know he's never managed to hit a human being with it. At least, not fatally. EDIT: The guns are Winchester 1895 rifles, I believe. Sawed-off, but still, they're rifles. Winchester shotguns are over-unders that "break" to reload. Random theory: The Winchesters are impossible to silence! It would be very hard to fit a suppressor to a gun that old and modified. If a silenced gun exists, it's probably a more modern weapon, and I'd guess probably a handgun. |
2009-10-24, 13:56 | Link #2594 |
Observer
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Unreality
Age: 34
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a question
knox rules are in EP5, but I wonder if it is mentioned on the previous four arcs? ' espicially by beato " " "Was it Knox, or was it Van Dine? It seems in mystery novels, there must never be hidden passages. I also follow that etiquette." from which episode this citation is ?
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2009-10-24, 13:57 | Link #2595 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Workworkwork, they aren't sawed off shotguns... they are sawed off rifles. It is easy to tell the difference... shotguns do not fire single bullets, they fire pellet rounds. These winchesters fire single bullets.
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2009-10-24, 13:59 | Link #2596 |
Author Wannabe
Join Date: Aug 2009
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The Mare’s Leg (aka Mare’s Laig; both sometimes spelled without the apostrophe) was the name given to a customized shortened rifle by Steve McQueen’s character on the television series Wanted: Dead or Alive (1958–1961). McQueen’s character was named Josh Randall, and the gun has also been referred to as a Winchester Randall, or a Randall Special. (From Wikipedia)
I see the mistake a lot though. Most people think sawed-off=shotgun. |
2009-10-24, 14:08 | Link #2598 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Maybe because there's little reason to saw off a rifle, if you want a smaller weapon a gun is a better choice. Sawed of shotguns by other hands are devastating at close range. They however become useless for the purpose of hitting far away targets. They are mostly execution weapons, not meant for a gun fight. They were popular among mafia criminals.
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2009-10-24, 14:53 | Link #2599 | ||
Starcraft Wizard
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 34
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Quote:
In the vn, the gun was smoking, and Battler had to and did rechamber a round. Quote:
Case two is more viable. However in that case, where did the shot Natushi fire land? I guess you can just say that she shot and she missed to explain that one away. Natushi shoot at the culprit and missed with her gun, the culprit shot at Natsuhi with a silenced gun and hit her in the head. That's a perfectly valid answer. The strongest rebuttal I could find, is that Battler would have noticed the damage caused by Natsuhi's missed shot. Last edited by scwizard; 2009-10-24 at 15:04. |
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