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Antera Caramichael · 2010-01-17, 12:54

Oh and i forgot: Gaap is as sexy as Nanjo isn't

Gohda · 2010-01-17, 13:45

So I'd like someone to confirm something for me, something that's been bothering me for a while now.
Can I see Kumasawa as Virgilia? I know they aren't "one and the same", but what could you describe their relationship as? Is it like

Spoiler for EP5:

Or should I view their relationship more like Bernkastel and Rika from Higurashi?

It just cranks my gears.

Jan-Poo · 2010-01-17, 14:41

I think it's more correct to say thatl Virgilia is the Kumasawa of the magic world. Which is exactly what Ronove said about his relation with Genji.

Gohda · 2010-01-17, 14:45

Yet we've never had any character similarities between the two of them. Never have we heard Virgilia tell any mackerel jokes. They seem like two totally different characters. I admit it's the same with Genji and Ronove though.

I just wonder how far we should take this "magical counterpart" thing. Is Kumasawa aware that she has a witch double in the magical world? Judging from Genji and Ronove's interaction in Episode 3, it's obvious to conclude they're aware of each other's existence. Is it the same for Kumasawa though?

Antera Caramichael · 2010-01-17, 14:56

Well, I think she actually made some mackerel jokes in Ep4^^ (In the underground passage).

Jan-Poo · 2010-01-17, 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gohda

Yet we've never had any character similarities between the two of them. Never have we heard Virgilia tell any mackerel jokes. They seem like two totally different characters. I admit it's the same with Genji and Ronove though.

I just wonder how far we should take this "magical counterpart" thing. Is Kumasawa aware that she has a witch double in the magical world? Judging from Genji and Ronove's interaction in Episode 3, it's obvious to conclude they're aware of each other's existence. Is it the same for Kumasawa though?

In EP3 we practically see Kumasawa transforming into Virgilia, and yes as Antera said Virgilia mentioned mackerels in EP4 ('though it wasn't a joke and only happened in the novel).

We don't actually have many means to tell if they are aware if each other existence since they never met.

Gohda · 2010-01-17, 15:25

OMG, I missed a mackerel joke? Now that's odd...well, if that's true, then I'm pretty sure they're aware of each other's existence much in the same way as Genji and Ronove are. I'm glad to hear it, as this raises Kumasawa a little higher on my favourite characters list.

Anyway, onto another thing I've been wondering. Are we to take it that every character in the meta world represents a human character on the game board? If that's true, I'd like to return to the conversation you were just having about Gaap.
I'm petty sure she doesn't represent Nanjo. If we're going by the "rules" Ronove and Virgilia "use", then it means the character Gaap represents must have the same "function" as she does.

If we think about it, Kumasawa and Virgilia represent one another because of their "mother type". Much as how Virgilia acts as a mother to Beato, Kumasawa acts as a comforting mother type to Kanon and Shannon (and even Natsuhi in EP1 and if I recall correctly Gohda too in EP2).
Genji and Ronove are both head furniture, on the game board and in the meta world respectively.
Gaap however, is another story. She's more like a good friend who's always there for Beato, but also has a playful side (like how she stole some of Beato's items as "payment" for her services, not with malicious intent obviously). To be honest, I'm stuck at who to think of for Gaap. Again, if we're going by Virgilia and Ronove's "rules", Gaap can only represent Eva, Rosa, Natsuhi, Kyrie, Shannon, Maria or Jessica. The only one I can think of is Jessica, but that's just by elimination, I can't really construct a good argument about this. Their personalities sort of match, but other than that... I'd like to hear someone else's opinion on this.

momobunny · 2010-01-17, 15:35

Is it possible that Gaap doesn't represent anybody? She could represent an item or plot element. Such as the bodies disappearing, she'd represent the person/people that moved the bodies... but only represent the fact that they moved the bodies and not the person any other time.

Gohda · 2010-01-17, 15:41

Hmmm, I like that theory. It sounds pretty plausible. Gaap always moves the bodies in the meta world, so it could very well be she represents the person who moves them in reality. Could it be that her character gives us a hint about the culprit then?

Jan-Poo · 2010-01-17, 16:50

I once thought that Gaap needed to represent a human, now I'm not so sure anymore. However it would be strange if she only represented a concept and not a real thing. So far we could always find a vessel... except the goats... which however might represent a random mob...

Gohda · 2010-01-17, 17:03

It's just that Gaap doesn't seem to fit any of the humans. The Goatmen don't represent any of the humans at all, I think. Seeing as they kill everyone that's still alive at the end of the game they might represent the bomb/landslide from the theory though.

Or did I imagine the part about the Goats killing everyone still alive at the end of the game? Maybe I should go to sleep...

Ronove · 2010-01-17, 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gohda

It's just that Gaap doesn't seem to fit any of the humans. The Goatmen don't represent any of the humans at all, I think. Seeing as they kill everyone that's still alive at the end of the game they might represent the bomb/landslide from the theory though.

Or did I imagine the part about the Goats killing everyone still alive at the end of the game? Maybe I should go to sleep...

I like your thinking!

However, apparently the Goats have families and feelings too, based on EP4, where we go into their minds, slightly.
I agree that Gaap may not fit in with the humans, but we can't positivaly say she's a Tree or something. Her magic to make corpses disappear CAN represent a Mystery Element, although it's quite confusing.
Darn Ryu07 for his failed way of "making it more sense".

Gohda · 2010-01-17, 18:27

Then if Gaap were to represent the mystery element of the corpses that keep on disappearing, and the goats represent the bomb that goes off at the end of the game, then what about the Siestas?

I'm pretty sure the theory about that connects the Siestas to Maria has been mentioned somewhere in the forum. The four bunny-girl killers obviously derive from the dolls she carries around in EP4, until one of them gets destroyed (556). I'm more interested in how that in turn connects the girls to the murders. Their weapons have thus far included not only bullets or other piercing objects, but rope (perhaps) in order to strangle Krauss and Natsuhi. So do the Siestas represent all the murder weapons used in a game?

Jan-Poo · 2010-01-17, 18:36

Don't think they represent all the murderer's weapon, just guns

momobunny · 2010-01-17, 19:04

If that's true, it makes me wonder how Maria's toys and the guns are connected.

Ronove · 2010-01-17, 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maho Momo

If that's true, it makes me wonder how Maria's toys and the guns are connected.

Maybe it's just a coincedence? I think the magic only derives from the mystery! Remember, we are only reading a story based on someone's book, in a way. It may be their own interpretation of that happening, if it happened at all that is.

So, let's make this assumption:

Gaap = Disappearance of Corpse
Siestas = Guns? (I think it's from Tips too)
Stakes = stakes?

momobunny · 2010-01-17, 19:44

How many guns were shown at once, or by different people (and possibly a different place) during the same time by the way?

Thunder Book · 2010-01-17, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gohda

Yet we've never had any character similarities between the two of them. Never have we heard Virgilia tell any mackerel jokes. They seem like two totally different characters. I admit it's the same with Genji and Ronove though.

I just wonder how far we should take this "magical counterpart" thing. Is Kumasawa aware that she has a witch double in the magical world? Judging from Genji and Ronove's interaction in Episode 3, it's obvious to conclude they're aware of each other's existence. Is it the same for Kumasawa though?

Well, Virgilia occasionally complains about being old. There's another similarity between her and Kumasawa.

Jan-Poo · 2010-01-18, 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maho Momo

How many guns were shown at once, or by different people (and possibly a different place) during the same time by the way?

If you are asking how many guns have been shown to exist in the same place then that's 4, in Episode3.

However the wounds on the corpses suggest there might also be a shotgun in addition to the four winchester, or an equally destructive weapon.

momobunny · 2010-01-18, 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

If you are asking how many guns have been shown to exist in the same place then that's 4, in Episode3.

However the wounds on the corpses suggest there might also be a shotgun in addition to the four winchester, or an equally destructive weapon.

In that case, do the Siestas really symbolize the guns? There are only three main girls that are summoned on Rokkenjima and the 4th one is dead. >.>

2010-01-17, 13:45	Link #22
Gohda Magical Gohda Chef Join Date: Sep 2009	So I'd like someone to confirm something for me, something that's been bothering me for a while now. Can I see Kumasawa as Virgilia? I know they aren't "one and the same", but what could you describe their relationship as? Is it like Spoiler for EP5: Bernkastel and Erika, by which I mean, is Kumasawa Virgilia's piece on the game board, her double? Or should I view their relationship more like Bernkastel and Rika from Higurashi? It just cranks my gears.

2010-01-17, 14:41	Link #23
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	I think it's more correct to say thatl Virgilia is the Kumasawa of the magic world. Which is exactly what Ronove said about his relation with Genji. __________________

2010-01-17, 15:35	Link #28
momobunny ◔ ◡ ◔ Artist Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: ImaginaryLand Age: 33	Is it possible that Gaap doesn't represent anybody? She could represent an item or plot element. Such as the bodies disappearing, she'd represent the person/people that moved the bodies... but only represent the fact that they moved the bodies and not the person any other time. __________________

2010-01-17, 16:50	Link #30
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	I once thought that Gaap needed to represent a human, now I'm not so sure anymore. However it would be strange if she only represented a concept and not a real thing. So far we could always find a vessel... except the goats... which however might represent a random mob... __________________

2010-01-17, 18:36	Link #34
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	Don't think they represent all the murderer's weapon, just guns __________________

2010-01-17, 12:54	Link #21
Antera Caramichael French Maid Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Poitiers; France Age: 31	Oh and i forgot: Gaap is as sexy as Nanjo isn't

2010-01-17, 14:45	Link #24
Gohda Magical Gohda Chef Join Date: Sep 2009	Yet we've never had any character similarities between the two of them. Never have we heard Virgilia tell any mackerel jokes. They seem like two totally different characters. I admit it's the same with Genji and Ronove though. I just wonder how far we should take this "magical counterpart" thing. Is Kumasawa aware that she has a witch double in the magical world? Judging from Genji and Ronove's interaction in Episode 3, it's obvious to conclude they're aware of each other's existence. Is it the same for Kumasawa though?

2010-01-17, 14:56	Link #25
Antera Caramichael French Maid Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Poitiers; France Age: 31	Well, I think she actually made some mackerel jokes in Ep4^^ (In the underground passage).

2010-01-17, 15:25	Link #27
Gohda Magical Gohda Chef Join Date: Sep 2009	OMG, I missed a mackerel joke? Now that's odd...well, if that's true, then I'm pretty sure they're aware of each other's existence much in the same way as Genji and Ronove are. I'm glad to hear it, as this raises Kumasawa a little higher on my favourite characters list. Anyway, onto another thing I've been wondering. Are we to take it that every character in the meta world represents a human character on the game board? If that's true, I'd like to return to the conversation you were just having about Gaap. I'm petty sure she doesn't represent Nanjo. If we're going by the "rules" Ronove and Virgilia "use", then it means the character Gaap represents must have the same "function" as she does. If we think about it, Kumasawa and Virgilia represent one another because of their "mother type". Much as how Virgilia acts as a mother to Beato, Kumasawa acts as a comforting mother type to Kanon and Shannon (and even Natsuhi in EP1 and if I recall correctly Gohda too in EP2). Genji and Ronove are both head furniture, on the game board and in the meta world respectively. Gaap however, is another story. She's more like a good friend who's always there for Beato, but also has a playful side (like how she stole some of Beato's items as "payment" for her services, not with malicious intent obviously). To be honest, I'm stuck at who to think of for Gaap. Again, if we're going by Virgilia and Ronove's "rules", Gaap can only represent Eva, Rosa, Natsuhi, Kyrie, Shannon, Maria or Jessica. The only one I can think of is Jessica, but that's just by elimination, I can't really construct a good argument about this. Their personalities sort of match, but other than that... I'd like to hear someone else's opinion on this.

2010-01-17, 15:41	Link #29
Gohda Magical Gohda Chef Join Date: Sep 2009	Hmmm, I like that theory. It sounds pretty plausible. Gaap always moves the bodies in the meta world, so it could very well be she represents the person who moves them in reality. Could it be that her character gives us a hint about the culprit then?

2010-01-17, 17:03	Link #31
Gohda Magical Gohda Chef Join Date: Sep 2009	It's just that Gaap doesn't seem to fit any of the humans. The Goatmen don't represent any of the humans at all, I think. Seeing as they kill everyone that's still alive at the end of the game they might represent the bomb/landslide from the theory though. Or did I imagine the part about the Goats killing everyone still alive at the end of the game? Maybe I should go to sleep...

2010-01-17, 18:27	Link #33
Gohda Magical Gohda Chef Join Date: Sep 2009	Then if Gaap were to represent the mystery element of the corpses that keep on disappearing, and the goats represent the bomb that goes off at the end of the game, then what about the Siestas? I'm pretty sure the theory about that connects the Siestas to Maria has been mentioned somewhere in the forum. The four bunny-girl killers obviously derive from the dolls she carries around in EP4, until one of them gets destroyed (556). I'm more interested in how that in turn connects the girls to the murders. Their weapons have thus far included not only bullets or other piercing objects, but rope (perhaps) in order to strangle Krauss and Natsuhi. So do the Siestas represent all the murder weapons used in a game?

2010-01-17, 19:04	Link #35
momobunny ◔ ◡ ◔ Artist Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: ImaginaryLand Age: 33	If that's true, it makes me wonder how Maria's toys and the guns are connected. __________________

2010-01-17, 19:44	Link #37
momobunny ◔ ◡ ◔ Artist Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: ImaginaryLand Age: 33	How many guns were shown at once, or by different people (and possibly a different place) during the same time by the way? __________________