Spice and Wolf II - Episode 0 Discussion / Poll

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Its music done with medieval instruments and written to recall various medieval genre, particularly that influenced by the spice trade routes. Relevant to the story and the sort of music the characters would hear. What did ya'll want? Death Metal? Rap? o.O

No, I would like a music that would not hurt my ears and would not overshadow character voices. Because of the music it was hard to concentrate on the anime itself. Thats why I found it to be horrible.

Music has to be pleasant and not steal focus from the show. And thats where I think this music failed.

I do understand that it tries to restore the medieval atmosphere but when it obstructs you watching the anime it's no good.

But again it is up to ones personal taste - for me the music was absolutely atrocious and second time I watched anime muted just reading subs because I could not stand it and could not watch anime because it was too distracting for me. It doenst mean that for others it is the same though.

[Chrono Helix]

What was with that slight pause when Lawrence was talking about the torture with sheep?

[Jay911]

I myself liked the music of the opening credits. Whimsical and strange and like someone else said, sounded like it belongs in a tavern of that era.

As for the segment about torture by sheep, I don't know, but I do know that there is another sub job out there where the torture tale is replaced by an explanation of a shady merchant who tries to sell the same sheep over and over, luring it back to him after sale with the use of salt on his feet. :huh:

[FTGT]

I AM TAKEN ABACK (in a very positive way)

After reading some posts beforehand I expected a very OOC Horo with way too much moeness. But when I finally found the time to watch the OVA yesterday, I was squealing with glee. ^^

Horo was just marvelous. I couldnt stop smiling during the whole episode. So many hilarious and heartwarming moments. This made my week!
ARRRGGHH... how can Lawrence resist this permanent desire to hug her which I felt the whole time? He seems to be damn strong in controlling his feelings.

But why do they tease the audience that much? Thats so cruel! Or was I the only one who stopped breathing when Lawrence and Horo were about to kiss two times in one of the dream sequences. Seriously my heart was about to skip a beat. I was screaming "Give her a proper kiss you idiot", but apparently all they did was rubbing their noses. *sigh*

Originally Posted by RayzorFang

@Anh Minh and Velvet: Lawrence is the sheep, Norah is a shephard, Horo asks advice on how to herd the "sheep" and learns Norah is a true shephard, Horo feels she loses in her hunt for the "sheep" to the shephard. Something along those lines.

Thanks for clearing that up. I was confused as well.....

Originally Posted by RayzorFang

The slight OOC for Horo wasn't bad for a change in pace but i doubt it will continue into the actual second season, so everybody rejoice for the return of this great anime!!!... in two months

Since I know the story of the novels, I doubt it too. Thats why this OVA is such a (positive) surprise for me. ^^

[Darknemo2000]

FTGT, they were not about to kiss in that dream. Its Horo's dream after all. They were rubbing each others noses, sort of wolf intimate greeting of each other, they were not trying to kiss each other all along.

[typhonsentra]

To be fair, the original short story did have her being overly moe too but.... there does seem to be some definite shifts in style which might appear in the actual new season. I'm not against change but it does scare me when it comes to this show as I loved the first season so much. I just pray she doesn't become a moe blob.

On it's own the episode was a lot of fun and gave some incite into Horo's way of thinking which is always left cryptic in the other stories. She's really much simpler than you'd expect when you see the series from Lawrence's perspective.

[velvet]

Thanks to Lightly_toasted and Rayzorfang for enlightening me.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

No, I would like a music that would not hurt my ears and would not overshadow character voices. Because of the music it was hard to concentrate on the anime itself. Thats why I found it to be horrible.

Music has to be pleasant and not steal focus from the show. And thats where I think this music failed.

I do understand that it tries to restore the medieval atmosphere but when it obstructs you watching the anime it's no good.

But again it is up to ones personal taste - for me the music was absolutely atrocious and second time I watched anime muted just reading subs because I could not stand it and could not watch anime because it was too distracting for me. It doenst mean that for others it is the same though.

I'll agree that the sound engineer screwed up and made the music too loud in comparison with the dialog sound levels. I think that's the first time I can remember an anime having that sort of problem. :P

[Sinestra]

A little late to the party but i must say its so nice to have Spice and Wolf back in the fold so to speak. I agree with everyone about the music i was literally saying WTF while it was all going.

Horo had so many cute moments during this episode i dare not list them all. But my favorite was her with her head buried in her pillow waging her tale back and forth blushing over her thoughts of Lawrence LMAO. There scenes together once again were done quite well and the dialog is to die for one of the strengths of Spice and Wolf imo. Even Lawrence commented on how close the two are now and its obvious that Horo is starting to feel the same.

However, her dream of Lawrence's bones as she is eternal was another sign. Horo is a god will live forever or at least for very very VERY long time. Lawrence is human and his time is limited i feel this will be subject that arise later as they both become more honest with one another.

over all i loved the episode except for the music the only thing that kept me from giving it a 10 was the music.

[Anh_Minh]

By the way, am I the only one who didn't think Horo was "out of character"? I thought it was just another facet of her. For most of the episode, she was weakened by exhaustion and soliloquizing, rather than, you know, in good shape and trying to maintain the dignity of the wise wolf Horo in front of Lawrence like we usually see her.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

By the way, am I the only one who didn't think Horo was "out of character"? I thought it was just another facet of her. For most of the episode, she was weakened by exhaustion and soliloquizing, rather than, you know, in good shape and trying to maintain the dignity of the wise wolf Horo in front of Lawrence like we usually see her.

I didn't think she was "out of character" either. She had times in the previous season where her emotions got the better of her. This episode was just another one of those times.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Its music done with medieval instruments and written to recall various medieval genre, particularly that influenced by the spice trade routes. Relevant to the story and the sort of music the characters would hear. What did ya'll want? Death Metal? Rap? o.O

Despite loving Death and Black (i.e. Blood Stain Child and Gallhammer), I can hardly think that it would fit Ookami

Originally Posted by Vexx

I'll agree that the sound engineer screwed up and made the music too loud in comparison with the dialog sound levels. I think that's the first time I can remember an anime having that sort of problem. :P

I agree, I purchased the S1 OST recently and though it's no Dead Can Dance it is extremely good. But maybe despite choosing the most absurd (in a good sense) theme which perfectly fitted the first scene, the volume was relatively high compared to the voices, which probably is the reason behind the complaints.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

By the way, am I the only one who didn't think Horo was "out of character"? I thought it was just another facet of her. For most of the episode, she was weakened by exhaustion and soliloquizing, rather than, you know, in good shape and trying to maintain the dignity of the wise wolf Horo in front of Lawrence like we usually see her.

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter_Toki

I didn't think she was "out of character" either. She had times in the previous season where her emotions got the better of her. This episode was just another one of those times.

I also think that we finally got to see Horo's point-of-view and not out-of-character behaviour.

[Vexx]

heh, I love Dead Can Dance (also love death metal; also Jethro Tull, AC/DC, Offspring, Medieval Babes, ethnic folk music (Indian/Indonesia/Pacific), classical, big band jazz, j-pop/rock/jazz, .... its easier to say what I *don't* like ). "shuffle mode" takes on new meaning on my players....

The theme used in the OVA opener comes directly off the S1 OST (track 15) - one of the "festival dance" tunes using traditional instruments (I can't remember the name of the lead instrument that has that buzzy double tone). I didn't notice any *new* music during the rest of the episode, just recuts of the original tracks depending on the mood.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by Vexx

heh, I love Dead Can Dance (also love death metal; also Jethro Tull, AC/DC, Offspring, Medieval Babes, ethnic folk music (Indian/Indonesia/Pacific), classical, big band jazz, j-pop/rock/jazz, .... its easier to say what I *don't* like ). "shuffle mode" takes on new meaning on my players....

Our definition for the genre somewhat differ, since I have in mind Norway/Sweden and Greek scenes (Arcturus, Dimmu Borgir for black; Dark Tranquillity and early In Flames for death; as well as Septic Flesh and later Rotting Christ for Greek)

By the way Medieval Babes are really nice, though they should have chosen a different name/promotion strategy to boost their credibility

Originally Posted by Vexx

The theme used in the OVA opener comes directly off the S1 OST (track 15) - one of the "festival dance" tunes using traditional instruments (I can't remember the name of the lead instrument that has that buzzy double tone). I didn't notice any *new* music during the rest of the episode, just recuts of the original tracks depending on the mood.

I think the lead was bagpipes plus some other wind instrument, similar to clarinet (its damn name eludes me), though I do not really trust my musical ears. Anyway, your right about the theme, it kind of invokes an absurdness and detachment from factual reality, exactly how Horo was feeling when her psychological defenses went down due to her fever and acted OOC or IMHO sincere

[Lightly_Toasted]

My favorite scene was definitely when Horo first hears Lawrence's footstep and sits up perking her ears like a dog waiting for it's master would, only to catch herself and look down embarrassed.

[Vexx]

Okay, watched this episode two or three times.... overall I enjoyed the storyline and the insights we get from Horo's dreams. The editing seemed a bit odd and jerky, as if several of the scenes were lacking a few needed lines between Horo, Lawrence, and Nora.
(sorry, the "l" used in the subs just annoys the crap out of me.... want some white "lice"?)

Loved how Horo's private ruminations are directly translated into movement somewhat like a canine.

and yeah, I'd call her dreams, particularly the one of her choosing between wolfpack and lawrence the mortal -- a very deep fear....

Anyway, nice little story that mixed the humor and drama to keep fans spinning til July.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Even with that, I'm not sure what they mean.

Except maybe that Lawrence would be tasty if roasted.

Allow me.. What I got from their conversation after keeping the whole episode in context from Horo's point of view, she is pretty much stating Lawrence is clueless sheep who isn't seeing the Horo in the way she wants him to see.... A sheep who will lick away the rock until its tongue is scraped if there is salt in it. How does one herd such a sheep? Why by keeping an open mind and lots and lots of patience and heart. That's why Nora got it instantly when Horo's glance veered toward Lawrence for a brief instant as their conversation was taking place.

Nora is now also aware of her stiff competition. Hah!

I love how this show doesn't break down everything to the audience. I missed the opening song, one of the best song I've heard in anime over the years.

[Darknemo2000]

Vexx, good point. I probably should correct myself - the one that hurt my ears were not the music per se, but the level of it's volume.

Probably if I were to listen a CD of this music alone it would not be too bad. No I am not the fan of the instruments used and am unimpressed with the theme in general but its nothing that bad. The bad part comes when you combine the music with the anime and when it starts obstructing you from focusing on the show.

But again the problem lies not in the music as such but at the level of the volume. If it was lower I don't think I would have had to watch it second time muted. Sound engineer did a bad job with this one and thats why there are complaints about the music.

Was Horo OOC? Well to tell teh truth the novels parts where it is taken from was rather OOC to begin this, but this is only because we share the Lawrence view and are not used to Horo's view which makes it look rather OOC. The complaints about too big sugar level probably shopuld go to the artwork change, specially Horo's eyes, since her eyes without stronger expressed shadows, look softer and thus give more moe atmosphere than it was before.

My personal favorite moment was a dream part where Horo chooses between her Wolf pack and Lawrence, choosing Lawrence just to see him turned into a pile of bones.

Another very cute part would be when she hears Lawrence comind and is all giddy, and then emberassed trying to stop her tail from moving.

Another complaint, though probably not a real complaint, is that I really would have liked if they animated one part bit differently - basically the part where Horo sits behind Lawrece who is facing away from her, and talks with her both eyes closed. I liked it more if it was done like in the novels - one eye closed and another slightly opened watching for Lawrence's reaction. In anime they chose to keep both eyes shut, which isn't as cute and playful as in original. Nothing big though.

[FTGT]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

FTGT, they were not about to kiss in that dream. Its Horo's dream after all. They were rubbing each others noses, sort of wolf intimate greeting of each other, they were not trying to kiss each other all along.

I was aware of that, right after the scene went by. But seriously:

Spoiler:

ARRRRGGHHH.... this gives me the same feeling of letdown that I got watching the "almost kiss" in episode 4. Im suffering.....

[itisjustme]

The romantic tension is part of what makes you want to watch the show, if they kissed now it'd kill it.

I'm not sure if Horo was OOC or not, but it just seemed that they tried to milk up the part of her character that's most marketable (her cuteness). As a one off it wasn't bad, but I hope season 2 will see the return of the old Horo rather than this ... pinacle of furry moe.