Fate/Zero - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[ChainLegacy]

The episode was a nice change of pace, but I'm not sure that was needed just yet. Plot hasn't begun to move fast enough to warrant this kind of lull imo.

[HandofFate]

I took it more as Uryruu enjoying chasing little Rin and watching her panic and stuff.
Would make the killing and art more satisfying to him.

Though the Rin 'powering up' and the compass moving from Uryruu to Rin was hilariously cool in an out of place of way lol. Seems like a typical F/SN scene to me.

Also, the kind of dazed Rin look at first reminded me of a few h-doujins I read of Rin. XFD.

dazed rin.

Spoiler for rin:

Overall though, probably my least favorite episode, I liked Rin in F/SN a lot, but she has no business in this war, leave it to the adults.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Hmm... for a second I thought I was watching a Shakugan no Shana ep instead of a Fate/Zero ep due to the prevalence of loli-rin moe. It's as if Shana suddenly came into the Nasuverse and decided to urusai up a Master. Now moe + action is not necessarily a bad combo, but this was outta place in Fate/Zero considering it's primarily a war between adult men. I bet you Japanese otaku loved this ep though .

There were some genuinely good bits though like Tokiomi finally showing some personality to his daughter outside of "basement dweller" status and the Aoi/Kariya scene. However, vast majority of the ep was either Rin being cute or Rin going on detective mode.

Definitely the weakest ep of F/Z for me and for that I can't give a score higher than 6/10 as it was pretty average. I don't think this will be the norm though fortunately.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Moekou

But, in Harry Potter terms, he's still practically a muggle in his magic knowledge, while Rin is an elite pureblood mage-in-training (from the great Tohsaka line which was a founder of the Grail War itself!) who practices magic daily. Hey Keyneth said it was relevant! . You'd be surprised how deadly a six-year old can be if properly trained compared to an untrained adult. Just ask the Hashshashin. Where's my Assassin Loli dammit~

Also, serial killing/twisted mutilation of corpses and helpless children does not imply fighting ability.

He's killed some their families too (so adults are his victims occasionally, remember the second episode when he summons Caster).

She's a child. She's pictured as a victim in the light novel. He's a threat and a Master in the war. It killed the entire suspense that has been built up with Caster and all.

Good job with bad storytelling. He should have beaten her silly if they needed to insert him. Then fed her to the monsters, only to be rescued by Kariya before something lethal happens to her. Now that would have made more sense and would add bad guys points on Uryuu. This was highly unrealistic, sorry, and also a terrible adaptation. I hope they don't try to be "creative" with the source material again.

[DragoZERO]

Well, that wasn't the best episode but it was still pretty fun. It was swet to see Rin and her father. Decent break from the depressing streak we were on too.

Now then, on with the war!

[Soliloquy]

I guess it was good to have some sort of breather episode after intensity after intensity but the scene with Uryuu reminded me of Home Alone or the show in Disney channel. The serial killer was quite helpless against 6 year old mage-in-training, he was almost like a bumbling sidekick villain.

[Klashikari]

It doesn't matter if Ryonusuke is a Master or not: he doesn't act as one, and he couldn't care less about that. Note that Ryonusuke is basically the odd ball in the story, since he is the only master who doesn't have any idea what's the holy grail war, nor the whole deal with magi whatsoever.
Remember that the LN also depicted Ryonusuke as a complete lunatic who rather care about "quality" and art past the just mere excitment in killing. That also mean that he sees people as just mere material to "polish" himself. This enforce even more his puzzled behaviour when Rin showed abnormal resistance and offensive stance, despite he was just on a happy gathering with his best pal toy. In a way, he has no idea how things work and hardly consider odd things occuring outside Caster's doing. From start to finish, he saw Rin just as a mere prey and couldn't -compute- how she could do things and didn't really mind that much.

Actually, Ryonusuke not caring the slightest for Rin and the kids being kept in check is even moreso faithful to the original story (albeit on a very dubious tone and note), since he can always do it again later on. Naturally, few children being lost this way is still a loss, but for that kind of character, he is more on the cool things, instead of just quantity.
In a way, the scene doesn't make Ryonusuke stupid, but even more deranged/nonchalant instead.

[jeroz]

Originally Posted by Moekou

Where's my Assassin Loli dammit~

THIS. Seriously Ufotable.....

[Triple_R]

The only problem I have with Rin causing so much trouble for Ryonusuke is this: If Rin can do this, why can't her father? Or any other Master for that matter?

I mean, this guy is supposed to have a bounty out on his head, IIRC. Free command seals for getting him and/or Caster, right? And yet Ryonusuke can casually go around playing pied piper, and a kid Rin is enough to cause him problems, but none of the other Masters can get to him even with free command seals on the line.

It paints a rather strange picture, imo.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The only problem I have with Rin causing so much trouble for Ryonusuke is this: If Rin can do this, why can't her father? Or any other Master for that matter?

I mean, this guy is supposed to have a bounty out on his head, IIRC. Free command seals for getting him and/or Caster, right? And yet Ryonusuke can casually go around playing pied piper, and a kid Rin is enough to cause him problems, but none of the other Masters can get to him even with free command seals on the line.

It paints a rather strange picture, imo.

Yes, this. Way to reduce the dilemma of the masters and the severity of the war just for the sake of loli fanservice.

[Tiresias]

I guess every series can't avoid having a low point. I haven't read the novel yet so I don't know whether it is filler material or not, but it sure as hell feels like one. Fate/Zero is, as someone once put it, "not the war for woman and children", so her participation in the actual war alone, no matter how brief, felt jarring. Not to mention she was never a favorite character of mine (I don't hate her per se, but I never see anything special either), and how -

Spoiler for :

- contrasting it is to have her actually succeed in saving the kids just after the previous episode showed Waver's despair on Caster's atrocities and his inability to save the victims in time.

Thankfully, the near end scene between Kariya and Aoi was quite nice, and we got to see a mentor-ly side of Tokiomi, so I guess I can give a 6. I hope next episodes will regain steam since I really want to start giving 8's and 9's again .

Btw, I guess the BGM played during Kariya's scene is his theme since it was also used in episode one between he and Sakura. It's a nice piece.

[Kaiba]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The only problem I have with Rin causing so much trouble for Ryonusuke is this: If Rin can do this, why can't her father? Or any other Master for that matter?

I mean, this guy is supposed to have a bounty out on his head, IIRC. Free command seals for getting him and/or Caster, right? And yet Ryonusuke can casually go around playing pied piper, and a kid Rin is enough to cause him problems, but none of the other Masters can get to him even with free command seals on the line.

It paints a rather strange picture, imo.

Well, when you think about it....... who's actually after Caster, anyways? Only Waver and Kayneth really are, and Team Lancer is not in the best position right now. Kiritsugu, Kotomine, Kariya, and Tokiomi all don't really give a crap about Caster for one reason or another.

[Kokukirin]

Tokiomi does care. The city is under his care after all and a traditional mage like him would be concerned with the Grail War affecting outsiders. But he is probably hoping to do the minimum and let Archer deal the final blow (and getting an extra command seal in the process).

And I agree with Thess on this episode. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Vicious108]

Looks like my fears of toddler Rin going on little filler adventures came true after all. As soon as the episode opened with her Zettai Ryouiki skirt floating about to near panty shot levels, I knew something was up and this was going to be that unfortunate stain on the otherwise near immaculate record of Fate/Zero.

An episode like this really has no business existing in a series like this, but the unfortunate reality is that stuff like this is a huge part of what makes the Fate franchise a commercial success. I guess that if you wanna have consistently gorgeous looking mature episodes with artistic integrity, you also need to have pandering moe moe side stories once in a while, in order to properly fund the former.

And so, unsurprisingly, the production values were top notch and considerably better than last week's much more serious and dramatic episode. Nothing like loli Rin to eat up the budget, eh? And just before what seems to be an upcoming major and climatic arc too. The music was also great, though I have to question them wasting such a cool Emiya-esque track on a moment that was rather hard to take seriously and made Ryuunosuke look reeeally bad.

Anyway, the only thing that saved this episode and made it overall worthwhile for me were the Tohsaka parents and Kariya scenes. The final scene with Kariya and Aoi in particular was quite poignant and once again perfectly illustrated just how tragic and paradoxical the path he's chosen is. Hopefully we'll see more frequent appearances from him from now on and in the second half of the series, since he's been criminally underexposed so far.

Other than that scene, the preview for episode 11 was more exciting than anything in episode 10. Seems like the focus will shift to the "Three Kings" now and I'm all for it since it's been way too long since Gil's been in on the action. Hopefully the pacing will be appropriate and not rushed as a result of this little pandering and needless "breather episode".

[0utf0xZer0]

Speaking as a non-novel reader, am I the only one who expected this would kick off an arc that would end with Rin watching her father get killed? This is Gen we're talking about.

Biggest long term impact of this episode will probably be how it changed my opinion of Tokiomi - I had assumed that he was a cold hearted bastard after he gave Sakura away, but his interactions with Rin show that clearly isn't the case. My reaciton to his eventual demise may end up being sadness rather than "good riddance".

As for the changes relative to the novel, while I do agree that Rin's realization that she's out of her league was understated (should have had her solemnly promise not to do that again, IMO), based on what's been presented here I think that the encounter with Uryuu makes for a far better episode climax. Which was probably the point. If they just wanted more loli-Rin they could have just added more scenes like those earlier in the episode. And I agree with the assessment that she won largely because Uryuu didn't take her seriously enough, so that bit didn't bug me.

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

Speaking as a non-novel reader, am I the only one who expected this would kick off an arc that would end with Rin watching her father get killed? This is Gen we're talking about.

Same here. I totally thought that was the only conceivable reason to get Rin involved with the story at this point in the game, but alas it was not to be. I probably would've preferred it over what we actually got too.

Biggest long term impact of this episode will probably be how it changed my opinion of Tokiomi - I had assumed that he was a cold hearted bastard after he gave Sakura away, but his interactions with Rin show that clearly isn't the case. My reaciton to his eventual demise may end up being sadness rather than "good riddance".

I didn't feel that his portrayal in this episode was mutually exclusive with him being a cold hearted bastard though. Rin's the official successor to the family's magecraft, of course he's going to treat her with care. Especially when it comes to teaching her how to properly handle magic, which was all he was shown doing in this episode. He's warm enough when it comes to coaching her about magi tradition, but who knows if he even shows concern for her outside of that. And of course acting relatively kind to the magus daughter doesn't change the fact that he was quick enough to discard an additional child simply because she wasn't of use to his bloodline's magic's continuity.

Still, I did enjoy seeing him act that way with Rin. Makes his character a little less one-dimensional and all.

[Velsy]

I like Rin, but I didnt like what she did this episode. She got in over her head, and should of been in alot more trouble than that. Nine years to early for her to be doing stuff like that. I did feel Rider or Beserker would show up and save her. Rin took up some time for Fate Zero only has 2 seasons of 12 to complete the whole grail war in :/. If there was a 3rd season of 12, then I'd be ok with it.

I've been awaiting for the 2nd part of the Knight vs knight battle. Lancer vs Saber. Really looking forward to its grand conclusion. Nothing more entertaining to me than a Knight vs Knight in a competition of heros. So hopefully they wont keep putting it off like that are ><. Maybe next episode ><

[jeroz]

so let's see the things happening from Uryuu's point of view here:

he doesn't give a thing about the Holy Grail War
he thinks Caster is awesome
he loves Caster's magical things
he knows nothing about magic
he enjoys using the magical bracelet from Caster to gather materials for his art
he doesn't know of any other magicians in this world

will he expect loli rin to put up much of a fight? no, not especially after rin voluntarily let the bracelet's magic affect her. After that he got blinded which created an opening for the children to escape, and he could always go back to Caster for a new bracelet for easier capture anyway. Imagine rounding down like 10 children all by yourself while they are running away. Don't think Uryuu has the ability to do that. Yes he's a sick serial killer, but we don't know the extent of his physical abilities yet.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight

Same here. I totally thought that was the only conceivable reason to get Rin involved with the story at this point in the game, but alas it was not to be. I probably would've preferred it over what we actually got too.

Rin's adventure was shoddily handled, as other people (aside of me) pointed out. The brief chapter in the novels was to show her getting owned badly and terrified by her own actions. She couldn't accomplish anything except nearly getting herself killed (and worse, since Caster and Uryuu don't quite kill off their victims) and fainting on spot.

If they'll cram the King's Feasts in one episode while THIS adventure was even shorter than that got added useless filler and inaccurate stuff, I'll be pissed off.

[Ragna92]

I like Rin as she is by far one of my favorite characters, but this episode didn't fit well for a Fate/Zero episode. I enjoyed it nonetheless.