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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 19 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 89 | 40.27% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 61 | 27.60% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 40 | 18.10% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 20 | 9.05% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 3 | 1.36% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 2 | 0.90% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 3 | 1.36% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 2 | 0.90% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 1 | 0.45% | |
Voters: 221. You may not vote on this poll |
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2008-02-22, 07:24 | Link #702 | ||||
A.O.S.A.
Join Date: Dec 2006
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2008-02-22, 08:13 | Link #703 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Since GMs and Zakus are practically "cannon fodders", I guess it pretty much likely comparing between bows and guns. Even in other series, gundam-level MSes are very small in numbers... Since many of the resources went to the space elevators and have been "dried out" during the 300 years, the 3 power blocks might have enough technology to produce some sort of the inferior version of E-carbon but simply don't have enough money and resources.. |
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2008-02-22, 09:09 | Link #704 | ||
Inglourious Buster
Join Date: Dec 2007
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And, of course, as it is a sceince-fictional vision of our world in the future, there are quite a few differences, but only a true ignorant or just plain idiot would not recognize the analogies. |
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2008-02-22, 09:36 | Link #705 | ||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2008-02-22, 10:03 | Link #706 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Think about it this way; if we have a CB-like organisation that was created in the 1800's, do you think that organization's original goal would have anything to do with our year 2000 politics? CB didn't act because of any "pressing need". They acted on a time schedule of their own choosing, not because of any recent events that forced their hand. What they truly want is a mystery, but whatever it is it has nothing to do with the level of militarization. **** From that perspective, I believe the reason the relatively low losses suffered by the world powers compared to UC counterparts and its greater effects, is also based on recent events. Being not at war meant domestic and civil issues holds back any insane military spending, or at least the money spent needs to be hidden. Unlike UC, a large portion of each county's budget had to be spent on its people, because the populous wouldn't be willing to spend money on the military unless they think they are in danger of dying. (Saji and Louise's daily lives show exactly how carefree the average civilian were, and thus how little they care about national security.) In that same vein of argument, this also explain why losing 85 mobilesuits was a big deal; 85 mobilesuits can be replaced, but 85 coffins of dead pilots is bad PR. Further, this was from a deliberate military attack against a non-hostile group (at the time) with the intent of performing an act of THEFT. The attempted Gundam-jack was not for the purpose of defending one's people, but thirst for power. It is something so embarrassing that the world powers had to hide their intent from their own people by calling it a "military exercise". Losing 85 mobilesuits in a war defending your people's rights to live is one thing. Losing 85 mobilesults in a failed rubbery attempt against people who were fighting terrorists is another. If the population truly believe CB is a threat to their lives, losses of thousands against CB would be accepted. Ironically, the Throne did exactly what was needed to make the population feel fear. CB's actions up to this point has been undone, and now the World Powers would have the mandate to spend as much money and loses as many soldiers as it take to destroy the Gundams.
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Last edited by Vallen Chaos Valiant; 2008-02-22 at 10:21. |
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2008-02-22, 10:15 | Link #707 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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If it's the latter, then why would they choose to act when they did? While the brass of Celestial Being (whoever they may be) may have wanted to act for all sorts of reasons, the crew of Ptolemaios seem to be true believers, so they should know that there's no pressing need for action.
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2008-02-22, 10:34 | Link #708 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Lockon joined up because of a terrorist attack that changed his life. Setsuna joined up because his homeland's constant small-scale warfare messed up everything. Allelujah joined up because he was an abandoned experiment. None of these three joined because of any major military action. It isn't some world-war that made these individuals who they are, but small-scale conflicts that happen everyday. We are talking about conflicts that happen so regularly the media is barely interested. These three Gundam Meisters are not here to stop a world war, so the presence of a world-war isn't required. They are here to fight their personal demons, which they see in every intervention. I guess what I am trying to say, is that the fact the 00 world isn't very militarized doesn't mean CB doesn't have a reason to act.
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2008-02-22, 11:04 | Link #709 | |
~Hi -mi- tsu des~
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canada
Age: 39
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While I agree that it's pushing it when two bit terrorist organizations could field mobile suits, I just can't imagine the development and unit costs for say the Union Flag could be substantually cheaper then the F-22. If the cost of a mobile suit is comparable to the F-22's $137.5 million I can see why losing 85 in a single operation would be a huge blow, aside from the PR debacle that the whole incident was as mentioned by Vallen Chaos Valiant. As you said though, it doesn't look like the three power blocs have seen much heavy fighting, perhaps military spending just wasn't a priority as opposed to stabilizing their economy. There was also the issue of the treaty that was mentioned at the begining of the series that limits the military strength of the three powers, which would be a factor too. Last edited by demon_god04; 2008-02-22 at 11:21. |
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2008-02-22, 11:23 | Link #710 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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No country leader in this world will just sit down and gnaw his/her fingers reading surveilance reports about his/her country's rivals/enemies. They will secretly build their own forces whether it's peaceful time or not... I think that wartime or not, the real difference will be in how much real combat experience that their forces have... |
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2008-02-22, 11:49 | Link #711 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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The only way to even come close to resolve this incongruity would be for the Celestial Being rank and file to constantly question why they're bothering to do all of this while the world is so peaceful. Quote:
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As another comparison, the U.S. fielded a peacetime force of around 15000 AFVs with many thousands in its inventory, while simultaneously maintaining over 5000 combat aircraft. The blocs don't have any need for such a diverse inventory, and they're all much wealthier than the current U.S., so their numbers of mobile suits should be at least be comparable. Quote:
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2008-02-22, 12:27 | Link #712 | ||
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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Because frankly, all together they were able to bring up about 852 units with no doubt the majority by the Union and the HRL. So perhaps their logistics aren't capable of fielding too many suits. I mean doesn't it cost the US millions of dollars to mobilize its forces? If China, Russia, India, Europe, and the US conducted a military exercise the number of units participating should easily be in the thousands. Quote:
In regards to the Enact, it's suppose to be a huge jump over the Hellion and the brass noted that they spent quite a hefty amount on developing that unit. |
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2008-02-22, 12:44 | Link #713 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Celestial Being is said to not be interested in the moral high ground, that their beliefs and their mission takes priorty over everything, but they're not consistently portrayed as such. Certainly with the last four or five episodes, the badguys and the "blight" of the Meisters have been on the center stage, cheering for them has become easier while no one, not even those who oppose them like Graham or Sergei, ever argues against what Celestial Being is doing. At best, I think Saji said their methods would lead to chaos and that was only at the start of the show. I'm still reeling from Allejuah's big episode. A coming of age cemerony christened with the holocaust of hundreds of people when an information leak and even blackmail are on the table? Hallejuah won the arguement, but that didn't mean he was right, and they even had drinks at the end to show Allejuah as "reconciled" and "of age". No perspective on whether it was necessary or not. Simply that euthanisa is okay if you're not personally in a position to do anything other than nothing. Quote:
There won't ever be a large scale conflict, because losing the array is something that must absolutely not happen. Unless of course magical mecha from the sky appear with an exotic, plentiful, and powerful form of energy generation that is. It may be that Celestial Being had ran out of time. "The Plan" was probably not without it's setbacks (Jupiter?), the world was beginning to catch up to them technologically, and no matter how many or how smart the scientists, there was simply no way they could maintain the edge they had. I will laugh if the reason why any of this happened is because ten generations committed themselves to a dream that was being realised without them. Quote:
Last edited by Wesley84; 2008-02-22 at 12:57. |
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2008-02-22, 13:58 | Link #714 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: May 2006
Location: United Kingdom
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Of course we really only get to see the Union (or more specifically Japan's) publics opinion of CB (I imagine the AEU and HRL media would be much less inclined to portray them in any kind of positive light*) and up until the Thrones attacks the Union is probably the power that's suffered least from CB interventions, with a rebellious client state being the only known asset to come under direct attack. But yeah the world is ludicrously under militarised and as THAT animeblog pointed out it seems artillery no longer exists in the 00 world in any shape or form. Fun times. *Although personally I doubt CBs leadership are any more concerned with public opinion than their operatives, they've got a checkpoint list and their sticking to it. Come to think of it that makes the 'surrender' thing even more idiotic. CB have never once offered demands or terms or shown any willingness to open up contact with the superpowers/UN. There's no guarentee that even if a nation unilaterally disarmed itself that the Thrones would stop attacking. What would CB (or the mysterious alter-CB behind the Thrones) even consider to be disarmament anyway? Scrapping your mobile suits? Dismissing your infantry? Would an armed police force be considered an army? What about the militias that would inevitably spring up in the absence of a formal military? It's amusing to speculate but the more you tug at it the sillier it gets to the point that I have to keep reminding myself it's just a childrens show and laugh it off to keep my enjoyment of it. |
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2008-02-22, 14:20 | Link #715 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canada
Age: 42
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Wasnt that place just a nuclear waste storage facility? Even if it housed old weapons grade material that doesnt mean the world gave up nuclear weapons, thats just not going to ever happen, even without the need for nuclear power, there will always be a need for someone to keep at least some nuclear weapons around. |
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2008-02-22, 14:39 | Link #716 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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It's human's natural instinct to compete and fight and I don't think it will ever changed no matter how far in the future. That's why human's technology develop rapidly and in fact even so many of the "non-military" technologies today such as the Internet was developed as a military project. As long has human exist, it is impossible to eliminate wars completely because it's the same as denying human's basic instinct to compete and to survive. What can be done is not to eliminate war completely, but how to have wars as little as possible ! |
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2008-02-22, 15:57 | Link #717 | |||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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1. While it seems as if Gundam 00 is going for the minimalist we don't really know if that's the case. 2. I'm pointing out that it wouldn't make sense for such an approach to be used. Quote:
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2008-02-22, 16:11 | Link #718 | ||
Has a life IRL
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Somewhere in the Anglo-Saxon Sphere
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2008-02-22, 17:24 | Link #719 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Good, bad, they're the guys with the Gundams. And episode 15 was almost completely about artillery raining Hell on the Gundams non-stop. There's no way you could miss it. More than artillery, I was wondering where the strategic bomberes were at? Sending MSes to drop a few bombs every now and then compared to a big plane dropping dozens of them at a time... Not to mention C-130 Gunships or a MS equivalient. |
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2008-02-22, 18:33 | Link #720 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canada
Age: 42
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I figure its because there hasnt been any case where nuclear weapons were even necessary to be used. The only operation I could think of that might have merited nukes was the big one seen in ep 15 but even then, the goal was to overwhelm and capture the gundams not destroy them, with the lack of precision targeting due to GN particle interference pinpoint tactical nuclear strikes wouldnt really be possible or wise if there goal is simply to contain and capture. |
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