[MANGA] Chapter 302 Discussion

[Slayerx]

Ok... um, if Zomari was able to look back at Byakuya enough to see the look in his eyes, couldn't he have made another attempt at controlling Byakuya... afterall, now he'd be doing it at point blank range giving Byakuya even less time to put up another barrier

grant it, wheather or not that is true, one fact will remain that this was downright the worst fight in bleach ever... they spent several chapters argueing who was mroe arrogant (which was annoying like hell) when both characters had the means to end the fight at ANY given moment... at any time Zomari could have taken control of Byakuya and killed him and Byakuya could have released and killed Zomari, since Zomari, despite having one of the most powerful abilties in bleach gave Byakuya more than enough chance to kill him... Byakuya should be grateful that a person with such a power was such an idiot; Byakuya would be dead righ now if ANY other enemy had that ability... Not to Mention, Zomari's "fastest Sonido" was utterly wasted since it was not even used; seriously what's the piont of giving Zomari such an ability if he's not gonna use it... making him the slowest espada would have changed NOTHING about that fight except give Byakuya one less zinger to go out on

Originally Posted by manga

“You shinigami kill us hollows like it is the most normal thing! Do you think you’re God? What right do you have to kill us hollows!!? We don’t have any rights! You say we are the bad things which should be destroyed because you think you have justice! You’re just…”

y'know it's kind of a good point... though it's a bit spoiled by that fact that they survive on human souls... kinda makes it harder to justify yourself. i mean, even vampires have an easier time since many time in fiction, they can surive by having blood and don't NEED to kill in order to get sad blood (so those that don't kill, have something to go on)

And Zomari understands that the fact that they kill Humans could be the reason why Shinigami kill Hollows... He questions them protecting humans, beings that house future souls that will eventually come to Soul Society, beings that have no means to protect themselves from hollows... Hell, i'm not sure if it's fact or theory, but i think when souls die in soul society, they are reborn on Earth... meaning that the human souls that hollows eat are poeple who died in Soul society... That seems to do pretty well in justifing Shingami wanting to protect humans from being eaten by Hollows

Originally Posted by amirali1985

If the fight had ended in chapter 301, it would always have bothered me whether Byakuya could have stopped Zomari if he'd gone all out.

That depends, if Zomari had gone all out from the begining, then no... zomari would have killed Byakuya long before Byakuya had figured out that his power could be blocked like a kidou spell... the only way most any Shinigami to win against Zomari is for Zomari to play around with them long enough for them to realize what Byakuya figured out... essenially, Zomari's loosing relies souly on his own stupidity (with a few exceptions like Tousen and such)

Just because death cleanses them, doesn't mean its something hollows would welcome. I'm guessing they would lose whatever power or identity they'd acquired after the hollow change, which is scary, purification or not. Its hard to give up all that one is. Regarding this class oppression, I'm hoping at some point or another, we'll hear Aizen-sama give an impassioned speech. A wanna-be Martin Luther King (may the great man rest in peace), perhaps? There's got to be some just cause keeping Tousen by his side; perhaps this is it.

Agreed, though i'm not sure if it is ever mentioned, i imagine that when a soul dies in Soul Society, or when a hollow is clensed, they more then likely loose any kind of identity they had... afterall, in order for a Hollow to go to Soul Society, they need to stop having the features that got them turned into Hollows in the first place... they will probably have their old idtenedity from back when they were a normal Soul, but they would loose the part of them that made them a Hollow... As for Souls in SS, even if they are reborn or something they probably loose their former identity and thus they still have fear of death

Grant it though, things may be more complicated for Arrancar and any Menos hollow... the Menos are created through a combination of hollows. The consiousness they have is probably a mixture of the consiousiness that makes up it's form... so the question is, when a menos is killed, are all the hollow that make up its being broken up and sent to soul society, or is the menos now considered a single being and only one soul is sent back to SS...

Knowing you will exist after death might help give you comfort, but knowing that you will loose all sence of your former idenity might be something you fear to loose...

you know, we can even look at relgions in the real world... i mean, their are many poeple who believe in some form of afterlife, and that helps give them comfort with Death... but when all is said and done, many of those same poeple may still very much fear death or just plain don't want to die

y'know... now that i think about it, one thing i don't recall being answered is what happens to all the souls that are eaten by a hollow are eaten... do all of those return to soul society as well or do they remain a part of the hollow. i guess for the sake of the balance in existance, the souls themselves may no matter, only the energy they contain... so while the souls might not go back to soul society, their energy reamins part of the cycle that keeps existance going... heh...

Originally Posted by cheese no koma

the fastest espada is also the quickest to die, ah.....the irony.

I think what was even more ironic was the fact that the fastest espada had a release with no legs...

[Lunarskylar]

the one black espada had to give the oppression speech, i especially love his uber Jay-Z lips in every ep, oh teh stereotypes tickle me pink

and anyways it seems that after a while, Aizen just got bored and took the randomest adjuchas and turned them into the espada, prob cuz after Emoquiolla(or possible up to grimmjow from some theories i've seen) he ran out of good vasto lorde, and just needed to fill the gaps. So although the Espada name is great, since there was a lack of eligible hollow, all sorts of crap could get in,

hell look at yammy, all he does is lose

[Amirali]

Originally Posted by Lunarskylar

So although the Espada name is great, since there was a lack of eligible hollow, all sorts of crap could get in,

Speaking of which, I wonder whether Renji is due to be promoted to captain status yet? Ok, sorry, I couldn't resist. I know he deserves more respect.

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Ok... um, if Zomari was able to look back at Byakuya enough to see the look in his eyes, couldn't he have made another attempt at controlling Byakuya... afterall, now he'd be doing it at point blank range giving Byakuya even less time to put up another barrier

The last time Zomari tried amor, Byakuya avoided it with shunpo. Zomari could've tried for the kill again, but the man was just broken of hope by then.

grant it, whether or not that is true, one fact will remain that this was downright the worst fight in bleach ever... they spent several chapters argueing who was mroe arrogant (which was annoying like hell) when both characters had the means to end the fight at ANY given moment... at any time Zomari could have taken control of Byakuya and killed him and Byakuya could have released and killed Zomari, since Zomari, despite having one of the most powerful abilties in bleach gave Byakuya more than enough chance to kill him...

I'm still inclined to give Byakuya the benefit of the doubt. Initially, he was estimating Zomari's abilities so he could figure out how to counter them (which he did with that kidou barrier and shunpo attack). Plus he was distracted by having to protect Rukia and Hana. I think that he didn't attack Zomari until he was sure how he could take him down. Because if he made Zomari serious and didn't know how to beat him, it would've been all over.

y'know it's kind of a good point... though it's a bit spoiled by that fact that they survive on human souls... kinda makes it harder to justify yourself. i mean, even vampires have an easier time since many time in fiction, they can surive by having blood and don't NEED to kill in order to get sad blood (so those that don't kill, have something to go on)

I still think not all hollows need human souls to survive. I can't remember where I got that impression from though. I haven't seen too many shinigmai working on coming up with an alternate food source for the hollows. There should be some alternate way, in theory......after all, all living beings just need energy to survive, in one form or the other.

That depends, if Zomari had gone all out from the begining, then no... zomari would have killed Byakuya long before Byakuya had figured out that his power could be blocked like a kidou spell... the only way most any Shinigami to win against Zomari is for Zomari to play around with them long enough for them to realize what Byakuya figured out... essenially, Zomari's loosing relies souly on his own stupidity (with a few exceptions like Tousen and such)

Good scouting would also be enough. Any captain who knew of Zomari's ability in advance, and had a strong grasp of kidou could beat him easily . Since Byakuya didn't know what he was up against, Zomari could've killed him in the first attack. If they would ever have been a rematch though, Byakuya would've won even if Zomari went all out right away.

I think what was even more ironic was the fact that the fastest espada had a release with no legs...

Heh, even Byakuya was making fun of that by the end.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by amirali1985

I'm still inclined to give Byakuya the benefit of the doubt. Initially, he was estimating Zomari's abilities so he could figure out how to counter them (which he did with that kidou barrier and shunpo attack). Plus he was distracted by having to protect Rukia and Hana. I think that he didn't attack Zomari until he was sure how he could take him down. Because if he made Zomari serious and didn't know how to beat him, it would've been all over.

Yeah, but Zomari's amor guarantees instant victory if it's used right. All he has to do is look at the opponent's head and he controls their actions. That ability is just ridiculously broken. I agree gauging the opponent's tactics before taking offense is a sound tactic normally, but when the opponent has an unavoidable, potentially instantly fatal attack, it does no good.

Still I wasn't disappointed in the fight because of Zomari's haxed powers, but because of the way they had Bya overcome it. Bya's brilliant plan: I'll use my bankai. Wow, way to think outside the box there. He only used the kidou after Zomari was hurt by the bankai. It would've been smoother, IMO to have Bya to figure out how to evade Zomari's attack first, then use Senbonzakura to finish him off. Anyways, I'll stop my ranting.

I still think not all hollows need human souls to survive. I can't remember where I got that impression from though. I haven't seen too many shinigmai working on coming up with an alternate food source for the hollows.

Really it's been pretty heavily implied that the espada don't eat human souls. They can. When Yami arrives with Ulq in Karakura, he consumes a bunch of human souls but is disappointed because they don't satisfy his appetite. Ulq states that he shouldn't have been surprised by that since normal human souls are too diluted. I think Zomari was just speaking about the general hollow population when he mentioned consuming humans.

Likely, Once a hollow becomes menos, they stop relying on human souls and consume mostly other hollow. That's why it's normally the weaker hollows that are seen coming to the real world.

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Agreed, though i'm not sure if it is ever mentioned, i imagine that when a soul dies in Soul Society, or when a hollow is clensed, they more then likely loose any kind of identity they had... afterall, in order for a Hollow to go to Soul Society, they need to stop having the features that got them turned into Hollows in the first place... they will probably have their old idtenedity from back when they were a normal Soul, but they would loose the part of them that made them a Hollow... As for Souls in SS, even if they are reborn or something they probably loose their former identity and thus they still have fear of death.

Yeah, I agree what you and amirali said about hollows fearing death/cleansing. Even if they realized that they are being cleansed, I wouldn't expect them to accept death. I just wondered if they realize what the shinigami are trying to accomplish by killing them, even if they view it as just a meaningless crusade.

Originally Posted by amirali1985

Speaking of which, I wonder whether Renji is due to be promoted to captain status yet? Ok, sorry, I couldn't resist. I know he deserves more respect.

He should be. He has bankai. And SS lost 3 captains. I would like to see him replace Gin, and push around Kira.

[Hellychan]

Originally Posted by Jays

Byakuya thinks of how Rukia was controlled and continues, “I’ll kill you because you dare pointed your sword at my pride. That’s it.”

What a caring father! Err...I mean brother!

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

And SS lost 3 captains. I would like to see him replace Gin, and push around Kira.

Same here

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Really it's been pretty heavily implied that the espada don't eat human souls. They can. When Yami arrives with Ulq in Karakura, he consumes a bunch of human souls but is disappointed because they don't satisfy his appetite. Ulq states that he shouldn't have been surprised by that since normal human souls are too diluted. I think Zomari was just speaking about the general hollow population when he mentioned consuming humans.

Likely, Once a hollow becomes menos, they stop relying on human souls and consume mostly other hollow. That's why it's normally the weaker hollows that are seen coming to the real world.

Yes, espada don't need to eat Human directly, but their food are hollows which in turn survive by eating human souls... As long as the hollows are aloud to live to feed the menos, they will continue to eat human souls... frankly, it's like the espada are indeed eating human souls indirectly... afterall, if he hollows don't eat humans they will die and the espada will have nothign to feed on

Grant it, what i wonder is about Little Nel... she definatly does not seem like the type to eat human souls or hollows... either looks are decieving and she has been eating hollows, or it could be that in her child-like form she is weak enough that she is like the hollow animals, feed off the spirit energy in the air

One thing that always kind of bugged me is how Renji, Rukia and so forth have no problems with Nel, Pesche and Dondo even though, like other hollows, they should need to feed on human souls (or other hollows) in order to survive... despite not being evil, they still survive like any other hollow

[Amirali]

Originally Posted by Hellychan

What a caring father! Err...I mean brother!

I'm not familiar with the phrase actually. Is it something fathers do, calling their daughters "their pride"? I've heard of fathers calling their sons that, but not of brothers referring to their sisters that way.


@ Sabaku Kyu: You make valid criticisms of the Byakuya fight. All good points, which I won't argue with. Its just that no matter how bad the fight, Byakuya's coolness still salvages something from the mess. At least for a biased Byakuya fanboy .

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Yeah, I agree what you and amirali said about hollows fearing death/cleansing. Even if they realized that they are being cleansed, I wouldn't expect them to accept death. I just wondered if they realize what the shinigami are trying to accomplish by killing them, even if they view it as just a meaningless crusade.

"What the shinigami are trying to accomplish"? I haven't seen many shinigami approach their task with the attitude of wanting to cleanse/save. When they cut off a hollow's head, it seems they're thinking "bye,bye, pesky monster" not "may your soul find peace now". As someone pointed out earlier, when Ichigo defeated that Don Canonji lookalike, he couldn't bring himself to finish him off. He essentially left him to be killed for eternity by the exequias. If it was really uppermost in Ichigo's mind that killing him with Zangetsu would purify his soul, he would have done it himself. Heck, no one cares when Ishida and Chad slaughter hollows' souls forever.
Most shinigami I see don't consider themselves as saviors of hollows.That's just a footnote on their job description. They consider themselves as protectors of humans perhaps, and/or pest exterminators. I'm not criticizing them protecting humans, of course. To be fair , if shinigami considered themselves purifiers and saviors of the poor little hollows, that would make them even more hated. I've read enough vampire fiction to believe that :P. There's nothing more infuriating to a vampire then to be told the people hunting him down are doing him a favor and saving his soul from a miserable existence.

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

He should be. He has bankai. And SS lost 3 captains. I would like to see him replace Gin, and push around Kira.

In all seriousness, yeah, Renji does deserve a chance. But I'd prefer if he showed that he's truly captain level, not just a default choice because so many have defected. Bankai is a prereq for being captain, not a sufficient criteria. I want him to show he can duke it out with the big boys and win.

Originally Posted by Slayerx

One thing that always kind of bugged me is how Renji, Rukia and so forth have no problems with Nel, Pesche and Dondo even though, like other hollows, they should need to feed on human souls (or other hollows) in order to survive... despite not being evil, they still survive like any other hollow

It would be interesting if once all the fights are over the SS shinigami wanted to execute the hollow survivors (Nel,Pesche, Dondo,the Privaron that fought Chad and grimmjaw). I would like to see how team Ichigo would react.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by amirali1985

"What the shinigami are trying to accomplish"? I haven't seen many shinigami approach their task with the attitude of wanting to cleanse/save. When they cut off a hollow's head, it seems they're thinking "bye,bye, pesky monster" not "may your soul find peace now". As someone pointed out earlier, when Ichigo defeated that Don Canonji lookalike, he couldn't bring himself to finish him off. He essentially left him to be killed for eternity by the exequias. If it was really uppermost in Ichigo's mind that killing him with Zangetsu would purify his soul, he would have done it himself. Heck, no one cares when Ishida and Chad slaughter hollows' souls forever.
Most shinigami I see don't consider themselves as saviors of hollows.That's just a footnote on their job description. They consider themselves as protectors of humans perhaps, and/or pest exterminators. I'm not criticizing them protecting humans, of course. To be fair , if shinigami considered themselves purifiers and saviors of the poor little hollows, that would make them even more hated. I've read enough vampire fiction to believe that :P. There's nothing more infuriating to a vampire then to be told the people hunting him down are doing him a favor and saving his soul from a miserable existence.

y'know considering their jobs contribute to maintain balance in exsitance and what not, i don't think it matter what each individual shingmi thinks, only what the higher ups in charge think... afterall, the higher ups are the ones that keep everyone on task

It actually does bother me that no one raises an eyeborw over Ishida, Chad and anyone else... i mean, the entire quincy clan was wiped out becuase they were destorying hollows instead of purifying them and that's exactly what their all doing... in fact, ANYONE who kills hollows with out a zanpakto is doing it, and that includes Yoruichi since she doesn't use a sword... this also includes shingami who kill using Kidou instead of their swords (kind of a problem for those like Nanoa who seems to specialize in Kidou and not using her sword)... individual shingami might not mind, but those like Yamamotto should be furious and strict about it. He should be forbidding anyone from killing without using a sword.

I tend to be a bit more easier on Ichigo when it comes to how he see's his shinigami work... afterall, he stated out as human and as such doesn't have the same mind set as shingami should have... so him not fully thinking out him sparing Don's life or Nel is more understandable... however, Rukia, Renji and actual shingami SHOULD have the mindset to understand their work, the hollows, and what should be done and should be far less tolerant to letting any hollow live. the Shingami are only doing what must be done and it doesn't matter if the hollows can't see that/don't like it

Grant it, i am now remined of the vizards... they are vilified for obtaining hollow powers, but the question is why? i mean, the main reason Shingami are supposed to be killing hollows is not because they are evil, but because they eat human souls... the vizard however do not need to feast on human souls and are more like Shinigami than hollows and their isn't much reason for them to be hated... however, on the other hand, it could be that they are tring to forbidden the practice of becoming a vizard, and not the vizards themselves, since their is a high risk of the shingami becoming an actual Hollow... they punish the vizards not becuase they have hollow powers, but because they broke the rules... punishing them will help discourage other shinigami from under going the dangerous ritual... so i guess that's explainable... answered my own question there...

It would be interesting if once all the fights are over the SS shinigami wanted to execute the hollow survivors (Nel,Pesche, Dondo,the Privaron that fought Chad and grimmjaw). I would like to see how team Ichigo would react.

Funny thing is, so far the opposite is... afterall, one of the captains has already asked that one of the Privaron be healed

[Amirali]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Grant it, i am now remined of the vizards... they are vilified for obtaining hollow powers, but the question is why? .......... they punish the vizards not becuase they have hollow powers, but because they broke the rules... punishing them will help discourage other shinigami from under going the dangerous ritual... so i guess that's explainable... answered my own question there...

True, the way Ichigo got his powers was dangerous. But there are probably safer ways of Vaizardization. For instance, the Hougoyoko, yet SS never experimented with that.........well at least not to our knowledge. I'd speculate that Zanpakuto lose their purifying power when the wielder is in half-hollow form, so that they become killing machines not purifiers. But I guess all will be revealed when we hear the vaizards' past one day.

P.S: I still think Unohana should be giving the Privaron a quick soul burial (i.e, a sword through the heart) rather than healing him.

[123Hamster]

I remember one episode from way back talking about some hollow goes to hell rather than being cleansed. I think it was with the hollow that killed Ichigo's mother. Would that whole thing about hell not apply to the Espada?

And Lol at the only black espada being "the fastest espada" talking about equality and being the fastest to die at the same time. It's funny how racist an anime can get.

[RWBladewing]

Originally Posted by 123Hamster

I remember one episode from way back talking about some hollow goes to hell rather than being cleansed. I think it was with the hollow that killed Ichigo's mother. Would that whole thing about hell not apply to the Espada?

I think it was the guy who killed the parakeet kid's mother actually. From what I remember that happened because of what he did as a human, before he became a hollow. Though whether that applies to the Espada is a good question, as they are aware of what they are doing and are not mindless instinctual creatures like normal hollows. But that also brings up the question of whether or not their Espada personality or soul is considered the same as their human one. I get the feeling that aspect may not ever really be addressed.

[Hellychan]

Originally Posted by amirali1985

I'm not familiar with the phrase actually. Is it something fathers do, calling their daughters "their pride"? I've heard of fathers calling their sons that, but not of brothers referring to their sisters that way.

LOL me neither I was just stating that Byakuya was acting more like a father (refering to Rukia as his pride) than a brother I think all parents (father or mother) consider their child(ren) (boy or girl) as their pride

EDIT: Oops...sorry for having made you edit your posts RWBladewing and Geta, actually, the girl posted in the wrong forum

[Zu Ra]

Bya reffering or considering Rukia as his daughter rather than sibling puts the whole sister complex theory down the drain .

It was more fun that way . Bya will slaughter his prospective Son in Law , no wonder he hates Itsygo

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by RWBladewing

I think it was the guy who killed the parakeet kid's mother actually. From what I remember that happened because of what he did as a human, before he became a hollow. Though whether that applies to the Espada is a good question, as they are aware of what they are doing and are not mindless instinctual creatures like normal hollows. But that also brings up the question of whether or not their Espada personality or soul is considered the same as their human one. I get the feeling that aspect may not ever really be addressed.

Actually, many hollow are self-aware like the espada are, and they are evil despite what they were like as a human... Orhime's brother is a good exmple... he was very good as a human, but after he died he fell furthar became a hollow and thus became a hollow... so being mindless has nothing to do with it, the actions of a soul takes as hollow doesn't seem to count towards their ultimate fate as a soul can't really control themselves as a hollow like they could as humans... as Hollow's by their very nature becomes twisted.

However, one thing to keep in mind, from what it seems the an espada's personality is not at considered the same as their human one because the espada never had a human personality... The espada were once menos who are a combination of hollows and thus have no one former human personality, but hundreds... though it could be the case that the personality that the menos has is a reflection of which ever hollow had the most influence and power in the menos' body

Originally Posted by amirali1985

In all seriousness, yeah, Renji does deserve a chance. But I'd prefer if he showed that he's truly captain level, not just a default choice because so many have defected. Bankai is a prereq for being captain, not a sufficient criteria. I want him to show he can duke it out with the big boys and win.

Y'know, i was jsut thinking of pointing out "captain is a rank not a level and as such renji does not really need to prove anything if he is one of the top non-captain shingami"; however, when i think about it, the manga has actually been showing that it might actually be considered a level... i mean, even in the manga they use the ranks of captain and vice captians as measuring sticks for power; if these titles were just ranks and nothing more, then they could not be used as ways of measuring power since the measurement would change whenever a captain got replaced (though apparently, Renji believe Ikkaku is captain ranked and would have the job if the other captains knew how strong he was)... Furtharmore, not only do we have the fact that Aizen, Gin and Tousen's squads have not gotten new captains, but Rukia's squad has yet to get a replacement for Kaien who died YEARS ago... if being a vice captain was only a matter of rank then someone would have been promoted to take his place

meh, i think this whole thing leads to many questions and/or holes in how the shingami ranks work

[empzone]

Originally Posted by Hellychan

LOL me neither I was just stating that Byakuya was acting more like a father (refering to Rukia as his pride) than a brother.

I don't think Byakuya was referring to Rukia as being his pride... you have to remember the manga isn't set in the Western world. He was referring to the fact that a sword was pointed at a member of his household, and as head of the household this was a direct challenge to his pride.

[RWBladewing]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Actually, many hollow are self-aware like the espada are, and they are evil despite what they were like as a human... Orhime's brother is a good exmple... he was very good as a human, but after he died he fell furthar became a hollow and thus became a hollow... so being mindless has nothing to do with it, the actions of a soul takes as hollow doesn't seem to count towards their ultimate fate as a soul can't really control themselves as a hollow like they could as humans... as Hollow's by their very nature becomes twisted.

Well, I guess mindless wasn't a good term to use, I meant more along the lines of having no control over their actions than having no thought process whatsoever, similarly to what you are saying. Though I do still think the cases of "regular" hollows like Orihime's brother and the Espada differ greatly. Orihime's brother couldn't suppress his feral hollow side for long even when he realized what was happening. On the other hand the Espada seem to be able to make choices like that on their own and appear to be in control of their actions.

That also relates to the issue of hollows being twisted by nature. Honestly, while that was probably Kubo's original intention, I think the manga has deviated from that and it no longer applies. Nell and the other Desert Bros, some of the Privaron Espada, and even that wuss Zomari don't really seem twisted and evil to me. Though whether that's because they still retain some of their human personality or because they have a new hollow personality that isn't evil, I can't say. They could even end up suddenly losing control like Orihime's brother and the rest of the hollows but I don't really see that happening.

However, one thing to keep in mind, from what it seems the an espada's personality is not at considered the same as their human one because the espada never had a human personality... The espada were once menos who are a combination of hollows and thus have no one former human personality, but hundreds... though it could be the case that the personality that the menos has is a reflection of which ever hollow had the most influence and power in the menos' body

Yeah, I tried to avoid addressing that because it just makes things even more complicated, though I guess it is necessary to do so. An Espada's personality could probably be a combination of many hollows, or one dominant hollow, or possibly even that of the human of the dominant hollow, or yet another combination, or an entirely new personality. I don't know if the manga will ever explain this in detail, it's not that important to the main story but it could come up if they were trying to figure out why Nell is the way she is or to decide what to do with her upon leaving Hueco Mundo, etc.

[kirose]

Originally Posted by RWBladewing

Yeah, I tried to avoid addressing that because it just makes things even more complicated, though I guess it is necessary to do so. An Espada's personality could probably be a combination of many hollows, or one dominant hollow, or possibly even that of the human of the dominant hollow, or yet another combination, or an entirely new personality. I don't know if the manga will ever explain this in detail, it's not that important to the main story but it could come up if they were trying to figure out why Nell is the way she is or to decide what to do with her upon leaving Hueco Mundo, etc.

The option that makes the most sence is the dominate personality. When a menos becomes a higher lvl, it has an inner battle like Ichigo and Hichigo, only instead of 2 people, there is 100's to 1000's of them in a massive battle. The winner is "The King", while the others are a freakishly odd "Horse" lol.

[Monkey D. Luffy]

Wow so I'm expecting for Sazeyl to get tooken out by Mayuri in a grand way seeing as how demented both of them seem to be.

[lucasd]

It was explained in manga already.

Hollow is a animal, when they gather and make-out
Menos is born, in most cases mindless, but sometimes it's self aware, it has to eat other hollows or it will degenerate and doing so he advances up to Vastolorde.

On the other hand we have Arrancars and Vaizards, with a few cases of natural happenings (not complete form, but gaining awareness, i.e. Ichigo mother killer and Ichigo itself). For now it isn't clear if they need to feed on humans (I would say NO), or gain power through eating hollows (NO too, excluding #9). If vaizard loses battle he turns into hollow (then maybe into arrancar), but the same may apply to arrancars.

[Lendial]

zomari had the fastest sonido if any espada, faster than grim/numero uno who is faster than bankai ichigo who is in the ball park of yourichi/byakuya. he also had the most godlike ability in bleach seen so far short of total hypnosis and reality rejection.
in fact, i thought aizens bankai would be very similar to amor, total control 0...0

i think he would have completely destroyed 90% of all characters in bleach to date. i mean imagine him vs kidou-less renji or speed-dependent ichigo. i cant believe he was number 7, he seems way stronger than grim and even stronger than blowhard noitora.