Character Discussion - Suzaku

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

I don't think they could have worked together at any point before when they did. Suzaku needed to get thoroughly slapped in the face with how pointless his methods were and Lelouch needed to lose everything before finally dealing with Suzaku.

I disagree.
But we'll never know, so... *shrugs*
I really love exploring those ideas in fanfiction, though. ;P

[morbosfist]

Aye, we'll never know. Suzaku at the start would have never gone for Lelouch's methods, and Lelouch would not have done things as peacefully as Suzaku wanted. Nuking millions of people taught Suzaku that you need to break a few eggs, and Lelouch just had nothing left to lose.

[Eliarine]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

I don't think they could have worked together at any point before when they did. Suzaku needed to get thoroughly slapped in the face with how pointless his methods were and Lelouch needed to lose everything before finally dealing with Suzaku.

They both needed a good slap in the face. That's what made the show interesting. Since they're not that different and all. But that's just my opinion.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Eliarine

They both needed a good slap in the face. That's what made the show interesting. Since they're not that different and all. But that's just my opinion.

Losing everything would be the slap, so we agree here. His lies cost him the Black Knights, pretty much the only thing he had left.

[Nogitsune]

Aye, we'll never know. Suzaku at the start would have never gone for Lelouch's methods, and Lelouch would not have done things as peacefully as Suzaku wanted. Nuking millions of people taught Suzaku that you need to break a few eggs, and Lelouch just had nothing left to lose.

But what if Lelouch had managed to make Suzaku feel less guilty about killing his own father? If he had known about it back when they were children?
What if they had never been seperated?
What if Suzaku's father had died from... errr... an allergic reaction to cat fur instead?
I think they would at least have acted a little less reckless/stupid/whatever you want to call it.

Originally Posted by Eliarine

They both needed a good slap in the face. That's what made the show interesting. Since they're not that different and all. But that's just my opinion.

And I agree.
...Not that that's very suprising. xD

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

But what if Lelouch had managed to make Suzaku feel less guilty about killing his own father? If he had known about it back when they were children?
What if they had never been seperated?
What if Suzaku's father had died from... errr... an allergic reaction to cat fur instead?
I think they would at least have acted a little less reckless/stupid/whatever you want to call it.

Go back far enough and who they are fundamentally changes, at which point speculating becomes impossible. Suzaku himself speculates about what would have happened if he told Lelouch about killing his father in the last picture drama of the first season.

[Eliarine]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

But what if Lelouch had managed to make Suzaku feel less guilty about killing his own father? If he had known about it back when they were children?

I've wondered about that too, after seeing that Picture Drama where Suzaku reflects on the "I'm going to destroy Britannia!" scene. If he'd actually spoken to Lelouch about the whole patricide thing...maybe things would have been a lot different.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Go back far enough and who they are fundamentally changes, at which point speculating becomes impossible. Suzaku himself speculates about what would have happened if he told Lelouch about killing his father in the last picture drama of the first season.

Ah, I heard about that, even though I didn't find the translation. o.o
And as I already said, I agree that we'll never know what would have happened. It's still great for driving oneself crazy. Or writing fanfiction (if there even is a difference ;P)... should I ever find the time for another project, I'll give it a try.

[Vakir]

Originally Posted by Eliarine

They both needed a good slap in the face. That's what made the show interesting. Since they're not that different and all. But that's just my opinion.

Important part bolded.

A very long time later, some very smart people are still only just now regarding how the show is entertaining due to being a trainwreck.

Code Geass (and in the process, Suzaku) was entertaining because of the fact that generally every character short of maybe Mary Sue Kaguya needed a stiff slap in the face.

If Suzaku joined Lelouch, there'd be no story.

Semi-unrelated, part of how amusing it is that everyone needs a slap in the face comes from the fact that Lelouch's powers are more conducive to changing Britannia from the inside and Suzaku's are more conducive to changing Britannia from the outside...and yet they completely reversed these motivations, Suzaku because of his "morally important" shield personality to cover up his idiotic mistake and Lelouch because of his lust for revenge and slippery slope jumping.

Obviously Lelouch and Suzaku could've done things differently, but the show would've been over in three episodes. If Lelouch decided to use Geass intelligently to control key people in the government rather than waste it on gathering information about his mother, he'd fix the infrastructure rather quickly. If Suzaku decided to run around in the Lancelot blowing the collective red-shirt ensign army up he'd cause way more change than he would running around as an Honorary Soldier with a death wish.

[NyxOne]

...Kaguya's a Mary Sue all of a sudden?

[Nogitsune]

Yes!
Because... errr... because she's a fangirl, yeah!
...Omg. I'm a Mary Sue. q.q
But that at least explains why I like her. o.o

[Vakir]

Originally Posted by NyxOne

...Kaguya's a Mary Sue all of a sudden?

Lesseee...moe, tender and kind, brilliant, a great leader at an preternaturally young age, "wise beyond her years" cliche because any attractive teenager must be intelligent...

The only "flaw" you can pick out is that she cries. A lot. Which is par in Code Geass.

I blame the lack of screen time.

So, were you thinking of contributing anything relevant?

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Vakir

Lesseee...moe, tender and kind, brilliant, a great leader at an preternaturally young age, "wise beyond her years" cliche because any attractive teenager must be intelligent...

Was a fangirl, fell for Lelouch's lie, was mainly a figurehead for her people, never achieved anything overly significant...

The only "flaw" you can pick out is that she cries. A lot. Which is par in Code Geass.

I disagree.
Not to mention that Mary Sues love crying. They also need to have a tragic past and sacrifice themselves for-... *stops suddenly and gasps* Omg! Lelouch tried to become a Mary Sue!

I blame the lack of screen time.

A Mary Sue with a lack of screen time?
Now that's a contradiction.


Errr... but back to Suzaku.
I'm sure Arthur found him!

[Shuuda]

Originally Posted by Vakir

Lesseee...moe, tender and kind, brilliant, a great leader at an preternaturally young age, "wise beyond her years" cliche because any attractive teenager must be intelligent...

The only "flaw" you can pick out is that she cries. A lot. Which is par in Code Geass.

That does not really equal Mary-Sue. And she has more flaws than that.

because any attractive teenager must be intelligent...

Erm... not really, is it not the other way around just as much (if not a lot more), that attractive teenagers usually are not that intelligent. Besides, name one major or secondary character in CG who is not attractive... they all are in some way.

Perhaps I should have hidden my sig and avatar.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Perhaps I should have hidden my sig and avatar.

Why?
Let people think what they want.
I happen to like Kaguya, too. She's a fangirl, after all - and fangirls should stick together. ;P

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by Shuuda

That does not really equal Mary-Sue. And she has more flaws than that.

Such as...?

Well, I could actually name a few, but they weren't the kind that the anime intended to point out, and tend to be the same sort of mistakes/flaws that Mary Sues make but never own up to. Like how she berates Suzaku for not being grateful for Zero saving his life... the episode after Suzaku saved the lives of a million Zeroes.

Erm... not really, is it not the other way around just as much (if not a lot more), that attractive teenagers usually are not that intelligent. Besides, name one major or secondary character in CG who is not attractive... they all are in some way.

Tamaki. Ugly sonuva-gun- does not look good with an aborted baby beard.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Well, I could actually name a few, but they weren't the kind that the anime intended to point out, and tend to be the same sort of mistakes/flaws that Mary Sues make but never own up to. Like how she berates Suzaku for not being grateful for Zero saving his life... the episode after Suzaku saved the lives of a million Zeroes.

He didn't save them, he just didn't go back on his word and massacre them.

[Eliarine]

Yeah, seriously. Get it through your heads that Suzaku has no redeeming points whatsoever already.

[Knight Of Zero]

Originally Posted by Eliarine

Yeah, seriously. Get it through your heads that Suzaku has no redeeming points whatsoever already.

yeah, will someone is willing to forgive him again and again.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Eliarine

Yeah, seriously. Get it through your heads that Suzaku has no redeeming points whatsoever already.

That he didn't go with the prevailing Britannian opinion, "slaughter them," is certainly a plus, but to claim that he alone is responsible for saving them is silly. He nearly ordered their deaths himself, which Romeyer picked up on. No one else but her was going to fire without orders. He just stopped her.