One Piece - Chapter 787 [manga]

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by ZGoten

You're just unnecessarily projecting meaning onto words. It's not me using them incorrectly. Also, I can't show you where Doflamingo overwhems Luffy, because him playing with his foe is exactly why he doesn't overwhelm him!

Nah, I have very good command over the english language. It's my native tongue.

As I thought, you're not able to show me any evidence. I rest my case.

[ZGoten]

Your case being?

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

ZNot really. Luffy's offense completely penetrated Doffy's defense. Doffy was just resilient enough to hold out for the time limit, otherwise he would be KO'd by now.

which is called defense... come on man...

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

Semantics.

No, it isn't. Walking away and being carried away are 2 entirely different things. The fact that you can't see that/don't want to admit it is outlandish.

[Belise]

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

*Sigh* How about it isn't over till the fat lady sings.
Wait until after the fight is over to start dissecting the fight, with no bias.

Just gonna throw this in real quick. I don't think Luffy normally has this much kickback after g4. If he did - and what he says is true about needing it to survive on that island - then he would be dead. Being that vulnerable in a hazardous jungle for any period of time is leathal.

I said this already, but if Luffy didn't fight Chinjao and Bellamy before DD, I think g4 would have been enough, and the kickback wouldn't have been as severe(he could be on his feet despite being haki-less). But these arguments have come full circle like 9 times already so as you said we just have to wait for the fight to conclude.

Then we can all go for drinks and pretend Dressrosa never happened :^D

[ri0]

Originally Posted by grey_1960

As simple as it gets
Then you guys won't mind that Luffy was stronger then croc in Alabastia arc(opinion croc was stronger). In thriller Bark Luffy stronger then moria(Opinion moria was stronger). Garp vs luffy at the execution plat form. (Opinion garp was stronger ).The list goes on, you want to get complex or simple fine but we all know what went down in those fights. I guess Luffy was the better fighter and the stronger one right? If we go by your simplicity.

I don´t know what your point is, or do I remember what my opinion was back then. Those fights don´t have anything to do with my quote regarding Doflamingo vs Luffy.

Street Ball
Rio you know Luffy is still consious right? If you stand by your quote then gatz carrying Luffy is irrelevant because it doesn't matter how it goes down just has long has he wins right?

Exactly! That was my whole point from the beginning! I don´t care if Gatz does that and Luffy eventually will win this fight.
All I was saying this whole time is, that assuming both fighters started this fight on equal grounds (in my eyes Mingo was off worse, but I won´t argue that anymore cause there is no proof), one of them, in the course of actions, dropped down while the other is still standing and fighting other people for 10 minutes.
That Luffy will get back up and kick Mingo´s ass is a certainty. But he needed help, which, to me, shows, that the Birdman was either stronger, more durable, more cunning, a better tactician or whatever it is, that made other people help Luffy out.
I never said the gap was massive, but there definitely was one...

Final Verdict
Luffy fought with daflamingo pound for pound. There was not a single moment Daflamingo beat or swept him aside like law or Sanji. His gear 4 put him above Daflamingo in the fight because he was kicking ass. If Ten minute waiting period is your best argument that's not much. In four minutes Luffy will be able to finish him.

10 minutes is not much? I understand every other sentence in this quote. But 10 minutes is not much? If you have to drain yourself so much, that you expose yourself for 10 minutes I regard it as a lethal weakness...
And if we look at the reactions from last chapter, I think I am not the only one.
Just some quotes regarding this turn of events, without a power debate being involved - I especially like noktown´s as the last part reflects my point of view perfectly.
noktown: "Overall, I'm kind of disappointed, why use a transformation with such heavy drawbacks ? This is even worse than Gear 3rd, had he used it somewhere in a 1 on 1 fight where no one could protect him, he would have been a dead man."
Belise: "Luffy needs to find a way to make/use gears without having such a devastating effect on his body. I know he's partly doing it out of necessity but he can't be leaving himself wide open like that. This is the New World. It's too risky with scenarios here."
And finally your own words: "Second I agree with some of the people on this forum, luffy needs to figure away out to use these gears without making him useless. Gears like these are becoming more of a disadvantage then an advantage. "

But I guess that settles it. If you, after 1 chapter think, 10 minutes of total vulnerability is not that bad anymore, then I can´t argue with that.


EDIT: I think ZGoten´s 4 points list pretty much sums it up for me. The same thing was brought up by me last thread and I will let this argument go, because I think we can´t come to an understanding. I made my point clear last week, requoted my post here and no one was able to really say anything against it, except bring up stuff that was either pointless, disproven by the manga itself, me or some others. I am tired of posting the same stuff over and over (for example, the Trebol thing) and I am looking forward to further debates with any of you on other topics

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

which is called defense... come on man...

There's a big difference between getting hit by an attack and blocking/guarding an attack to prevent/mitigate damage. The former is durability; the latter is defense.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

There's a big difference between getting hit by an attack and blocking/guarding an attack to prevent/mitigate damage. The former is durability; the latter is defense.

they are both defense. durability is a type of defense. and your other example falls under the guard or shield type. e.g. boxers work on their abs all the time to be able to absorb body blows as part of their defense.

here's a link to the meaning of the English word defense. The very first meaning proves you wrong. if you want to continue to argue with the dictionary, then at least I can bow out of it

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

here's a link to the meaning of the English word defense. The very first meaning proves you wrong. if you want to continue to argue with the dictionary, then at least I can bow out of it

Yeah, you might want to read your link again. No where in there does it prove me wrong. I even showed it to a friend of mine who's an English prof and explained the context of what we're debating about, to which she agreed with me. But thanks for giving us a good chuckle.

[grey_1960]

Originally Posted by ri0

I don´t know what your point is, or do I remember what my opinion was back then. Those fights don´t have anything to do with my quote regarding Doflamingo vs Luffy.


Exactly! That was my whole point from the beginning! I don´t care if Gatz does that and Luffy eventually will win this fight.
All I was saying this whole time is, that assuming both fighters started this fight on equal grounds (in my eyes Mingo was off worse, but I won´t argue that anymore cause there is no proof), one of them, in the course of actions, dropped down while the other is still standing and fighting other people for 10 minutes.
That Luffy will get back up and kick Mingo´s ass is a certainty. But he needed help, which, to me, shows, that the Birdman was either stronger, more durable, more cunning, a better tactician or whatever it is, that made other people help Luffy out.
I never said the gap was massive, but there definitely was one...

10 minutes is not much? I understand every other sentence in this quote. But 10 minutes is not much? If you have to drain yourself so much, that you expose yourself for 10 minutes I regard it as a lethal weakness...
And if we look at the reactions from last chapter, I think I am not the only one.
Just some quotes regarding this turn of events, without a power debate being involved - I especially like noktown´s as the last part reflects my point of view perfectly.
noktown: "Overall, I'm kind of disappointed, why use a transformation with such heavy drawbacks ? This is even worse than Gear 3rd, had he used it somewhere in a 1 on 1 fight where no one could protect him, he would have been a dead man."
Belise: "Luffy needs to find a way to make/use gears without having such a devastating effect on his body. I know he's partly doing it out of necessity but he can't be leaving himself wide open like that. This is the New World. It's too risky with scenarios here."
And finally your own words: "Second I agree with some of the people on this forum, luffy needs to figure away out to use these gears without making him useless. Gears like these are becoming more of a disadvantage then an advantage. "

But I guess that settles it. If you, after 1 chapter think, 10 minutes of total vulnerability is not that bad anymore, then I can´t argue with that.


EDIT: I think ZGoten´s 4 points list pretty much sums it up for me. The same thing was brought up by me last thread and I will let this argument go, because I think we can´t come to an understanding. I made my point clear last week, requoted my post here and no one was able to really say anything against it, except bring up stuff that was either pointless, disproven by the manga itself, me or some others. I am tired of posting the same stuff over and over (for example, the Trebol thing) and I am looking forward to further debates with any of you on other topics

Why did you respond?
Those fight don't mean anything to you because like you said you never got the point. But everyone else did and that's important.

Gap Massive?
Prove to me in that quote that I said that. Everything I said in that quote is true. Does pound for pound mean massive gap? Did not the Gear 4 make Luffy stronger then Daflmingo? Did he not kick Daflamingo's ass in Gear 4?

A nice punch are you sure your tired of the argument?
For the guy who is tired of the argument you have a funny way of showing it in your motocon. I guess your not as tired of the argument has you thought because you felt the need to respond. None the less I stand by my quotes. Has for Z goten's four points that you stand behind, what does it say for Daflamingo if he can't take advantage of that weakness? Does it make him weaker? Is Daflamingo really has strong has you say or did Gear 4 really damage him more than he is letting on? I don't get why he does not fly over the gladiators with his string powers and kill Gatz and Luffy? For the guy who is stronger then Luffy he should have no problem killing a guy who is being carried by someone.

[CrowKenobi]

Since it seems that we're still arguing over the same stupid thing, I'm closing this thread until the new chapter comes out. Take this useless argument elsewhere...

EDIT: Thread open and still take the stupid argument elsewhere...