Toradora! - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[SuperKnuckles]

Originally Posted by asrielchase

heh I just found out upon rewatch that you see the bear suit in the party @ around 08:00. Nice little detail there.

Still, the act of going up to someone and switching suits? How does that work?

[typhonsentra]

Yay for subs being earlier than expected! Downloading now...

[Nukerjsr]

I just have a few questions to ask anyone that aren't the big discussions of the day....was anyone else annoyed by Ryuuji and Minori?

I'm just freaking sick of Ryuuji falling into this slum of being such an oblivious guy. Taiga was correct when she kicked him out and called him an "indecisive dog" because he really has turned into one at this point. Throughout this entire arc, despite the fact that Taiga changed and he truly saw Taiga happy, he didn't freaking realize it.

Not to mention that along with that, he was so concerned over Minori who didn't even really do anything. She avoided him for most of the arc. And he didn't even take Ami's words of wisdom even though she clearly spelled them out for him. Why can't we see any insight with the man at all? Can we learn more something about his thought process other than the obvious? I wonder if the writer is intentionally doing this to make him look like the guilty one. Because he seems a bit too obsessed with cleanliness, cooking and Inko-chan then the people around him.

With Minori, the ending is what really irritated me. I was expected her to dump Ryuuji, but why in such a happy fashion? She was clearly depressed during the whole arc until the moment at the ending. I don't understand why she wasn't emotional seeing her friend CRYING ON THE STREET. How can she just blow the whole thing off after she was so concerned about her losing friendship? From staying quiet and being in deep thought to suddenly being happy and weird again? It just doesn't follow.

This episode to me was really saved by Taiga. I mean...Kugimiya really put hard work into this because she was just so incredibly likeable and human. I don't think I've ever felt as connected with an anime character just to see her go from sadness to happiness to sadness from the whole thing with Ryuuji in the Santa Suit. It was just amazing.

And I don't care what you guys thought, Kitamura was excellent too. He was funny, I think that since he's skinny, him being "nudist santa" works pretty well. Funniest moment of the episode. Ami was great too just because she showed off her complexity once again. Plus we got to see her sing with Taiga and that was wonderful.

It deserves a solid 9. It was really great but the flaws just became too glaring.

[BetoJR]

I'd think Minorin's development isn't really ended, yet.
Just because we don't see her suffering with her decision, doesn't mean she's not. Unless one needs everything perfectly spelled out, that is.

Her genki behavior while dispatching Ryuji's hopes was a pretty well-built facade, unlike her normal upbeat persona, IMHO.

[SuperKnuckles]

Considering how easily Ryuji takes to the face of the situations, it's pretty easy to deceive him though. Out of all the characters, he's seriously the most rock-headed of them all. No doubt he'll take the whole 'being turned down' thing too literally next episode.

[nor4d]

After reading ALL of your comments i guess its way to emotional for me. I mean the characters, im a huge fan of Toradora but wont you think they're to perfect with own feelings? When i ended up watching this i thought... gosh, my girlfriend should look for someone better, i wont take-on a bear costume, wont run out without shoes in winter and wont shout my love's name...

God its almost like one of you said before. "Its way beyond perfect", this anime really shows me why i still like to watch it, even if im 22year old working student.

Ep 20 was perfect, just like the others before. I guess some of you are right with the opinion but its kinda hard to make discuss with all of you on the topic.

What will happen next? No matter what, it would be still the best of the best.

[Kafriel]

9, Ryuuji's new hairdo is awesome, if only he'd get his dad's shades, he'd be even cooler
It was fun to watch, until the final few minutes where Minori had to kick in...her rejecting Ryuuji doesn't mean the story's over, it's just getting started. I predict a lot of Minori drama coming up unless Taiga starts going out with Ryuuji...although that would get Minori totally out of the picture.
P.S: I really expected a happy christmas eve and all of them meeting at the party, turns out I was totally off:P

[Liddo-kun]

It's Christmas on February!!

A lot of character devolopment for Taiga on this episode, she really played the part of a good girl. Singing for the entire class, making the orphans happy and she even tried to give Minori as Christmas present for Ryuuji!!

Ryuuji played a good part too, so thoughtful to come to taiga and grant her wish of seeing Santa.

And lastly, Minori did something that's admirable... she had the strength to give back Ryuuji to Taiga. She's a true friend indeed.

[Waking_Dreamer]

Originally Posted by Nukerjsr

With Minori, the ending is what really irritated me. I was expected her to dump Ryuuji, but why in such a happy fashion? She was clearly depressed during the whole arc until the moment at the ending. I don't understand why she wasn't emotional seeing her friend CRYING ON THE STREET. How can she just blow the whole thing off after she was so concerned about her losing friendship? From staying quiet and being in deep thought to suddenly being happy and weird again? It just doesn't follow.

I think your missing something here.

Minori, in any of those scenes was not happy at all...

It killed her inside to reject Ryuuji but she didnt want to let on that she was doing it for Taiga's sake. The whole reason she covered her eyes was because tears were building up inside them and couldnt bear to look Ryuuji for she might breakdown too.

Not everyone can express their feelings in so hyper-emotional way like Taiga. Thats why she didnt go to comfort her crying on the street either (I assume)...the reason Taiga was crying was because she was going to lose Ryuuji to Minori.

How would she feel if Taiga saw Minori then? Is Taiga suppose to tell her best friend not to go out with Ryuuji, even though she knows he likes Minori.

Its similar to the Student Council President rejecting Kitamura. In her heart she did like him a lot but rejected him for what she thought would be his benefit. Like she said, not everyone can have the luxury of being an idiot who only knows how to move forward...or something along those lines.

Good ep, but annoys me how Minori and Ami just got totally shafted...

[xxfate13]

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Still, the act of going up to someone and switching suits? How does that work?

maybe the guy wearing the bear suit was terrified of Ryuuji, especially the way he looked right? ahaha.. so he just agreed with the idea of giving the suit than getting hurt...

[Kafriel]

Still, the act of going up to someone and switching suits? How does that work?

Or maybe a black tux is somewhat more expensive than a bear suit? Just saying

[BetoJR]

Originally Posted by xxfate13

maybe the guy wearing the bear suit was terrified of Ryuuji, especially the way he looked right? ahaha.. so he just agreed with the idea of giving the suit than getting hurt...

Now, that was a scene that would have been funny to see, here.

[Lexich]

Well, you see, Ruuji's delinquent reputation has not completely weared off. Plus he is in a suit, with heavy watches and put-back hair - absolutely yakuza looking. Would you say no to such a gut politely asking you to change suits with him?

[Nukerjsr]

Originally Posted by Waking_Dreamer

I think your missing something here.

Minori, in any of those scenes was not happy at all...

It killed her inside to reject Ryuuji but she didnt want to let on that she was doing it for Taiga's sake. The whole reason she covered her eyes was because tears were building up inside them and couldnt bear to look Ryuuji for she might breakdown too.

Not everyone can express their feelings in so hyper-emotional way like Taiga. Thats why she didnt go to comfort her crying on the street either (I assume)...the reason Taiga was crying was because she was going to lose Ryuuji to Minori.

How would she feel if Taiga saw Minori then? Is Taiga suppose to tell her best friend not to go out with Ryuuji, even though she knows he likes Minori.

Its similar to the Student Council President rejecting Kitamura. In her heart she did like him a lot but rejected him for what she thought would be his benefit. Like she said, not everyone can have the luxury of being an idiot who only knows how to move forward...or something along those lines.

Good ep, but annoys me how Minori and Ami just got totally shafted...

Well I get what you are saying, but I feel like Minori isn't looking at this the right with her relationship with Ryuuji. When she was sad this whole arc, it feels a bit odd that she acted happy during the break up. (Note, that's what I am only refering to with her being happy. The break up scene) If she was so concerned about keeping her friendship alive, then wouldn't she want to be a bit more serious with Ryuuji? To show that she really had to think hard about this whole thing? Saying to a boy who cared from you from the start: "Hey, I don't love you back." That just feels like a real friendship breaker.

And with that thing with what Sumire said...yeah, it's true. But I really don't like that with the series. It's making all of the women appear as truly creative, intellectual and realistic characters while the men are just rock-headed morons with little thoughts of their own. Especially with Ryuuji since he's in the middle of it all and he's been hanging out with these girls for months.

[Waking_Dreamer]

Originally Posted by Nukerjsr

Well I get what you are saying, but I feel like Minori isn't looking at this the right with her relationship with Ryuuji. When she was sad this whole arc, it feels a bit odd that she acted happy during the break up. (Note, that's what I am only refering to with her being happy. The break up scene) If she was so concerned about keeping her friendship alive, then wouldn't she want to be a bit more serious with Ryuuji? To show that she really had to think hard about this whole thing? Saying to a boy who cared from you from the start: "Hey, I don't love you back." That just feels like a real friendship breaker.

Well similar reasons to the student council president not outrightly saying NO to Kitamura. They would be lying and it hurt too much already to stare them in the eye and and say no with a straight face.

Im not exactly sure what your asking though. Are you saying she should have rejected Ruuji more sternly? Or after rejecting him...try to comfort him as to preserve the friendship? Isnt that too much?

Personally Minori and Ami have sacrificed so much already, I dont know how much more selfless can people want them to be, in regards to the Ruuji relationship at least.

[Kafriel]

Well I get what you are saying, but I feel like Minori isn't looking at this the right with her relationship with Ryuuji. When she was sad this whole arc, it feels a bit odd that she acted happy during the break up. (Note, that's what I am only refering to with her being happy. The break up scene) If she was so concerned about keeping her friendship alive, then wouldn't she want to be a bit more serious with Ryuuji? To show that she really had to think hard about this whole thing? Saying to a boy who cared from you from the start: "Hey, I don't love you back." That just feels like a real friendship breaker.

Throughout the entire series Minori is my least favoured character, one would expect her to go to the party,make up with Ryuuji and then have a fight with Taiga, but instead she turns Ryuuji down,making him feel bad, while she's feeling bad as well, and then making Taiga feel bad because Minori hurt Ryuuji's feelings...I mean, at some point she'd have to stop making the wrong choices,don't you think?

And with that thing with what Sumire said...yeah, it's true. But I really don't like that with the series. It's making all of the women appear as truly creative, intellectual and realistic characters while the men are just rock-headed morons with little thoughts of their own. Especially with Ryuuji since he's in the middle of it all and he's been hanging out with these girls for months.

The guys are not given much choice here, and the few times they got something to say or do, it's easily forgotten on the next episode...ah well, that's life, can't focus on all characters at the same time :P

Are you saying she should have rejected Ruuji more sternly? Or after rejecting him...try to comfort him as to preserve the friendship? Isnt that too much?

If she had feelings for Ryuuji she should have told him so after the summer party, before he and Taiga started bonding too much. She lost that chance, and claimed it back at a wrong time, that's all.

[typhonsentra]

Originally Posted by Nukerjsr

Well I get what you are saying, but I feel like Minori isn't looking at this the right with her relationship with Ryuuji. When she was sad this whole arc, it feels a bit odd that she acted happy during the break up. (Note, that's what I am only refering to with her being happy. The break up scene) If she was so concerned about keeping her friendship alive, then wouldn't she want to be a bit more serious with Ryuuji? To show that she really had to think hard about this whole thing? Saying to a boy who cared from you from the start: "Hey, I don't love you back." That just feels like a real friendship breaker.

Read between the lines, she couldn't even look him in the eyes the entire time. She acted the way she did because she didn't want him to see how hard it was for her to reject him, why do you think she pulled the cap over her eyes at the end? I also don't think she was concerned with being his friend after this when she did this, she'll probably feel guilty later in the story but this was all for Taiga. To help Taiga she knew she had to hurt him.

[Led_Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Waking_Dreamer

Well similar reasons to the student council president not outrightly saying NO to Kitamura. They would be lying and it hurt too much already to stare them in the eye and and say no with a straight face.

Im not exactly sure what your asking though. Are you saying she should have rejected Ruuji more sternly? Or after rejecting him...try to comfort him as to preserve the friendship? Isnt that too much?

Personally Minori and Ami have sacrificed so much already, I dont know how much more selfless can people want them to be, in regards to the Ruuji relationship at least.

I agree, Minori already is in pain to say no to Ryuuji...

I think she like Sumire, Can't Lie, but she do it, just becouse she thinks is the right thing to do...

Becouse if she go Foward, not caring of the rest, she'll bring more pain, especially to Taiga, and she (like sumire) decided that she will carry the burden of that Croux...

She can't be happy in that part...

[Nosauz]

From my pov, i feel like many of the characters continue to sacrifice, and in the end you get a taiga x ryuji ending which is not bad, but the way its achieved is pretty brutal. If two people's happiness costs five other people theirs I would opt to not have that happiness. Honestly its really painful watching minorin, and ami continue to just sit and mope, ami not so much because her character is made that way, but minorin, its just like seeing the shell of a person. I don't claim to understand love, but I want to say that if love is this painful to obtain, is it worth sacrificing your friends happiness for your own sake? Yea the rejection scene was painful to watch, I could tell minorin was hurting bad, even with that waffly smile. Why are these damn characters masochists?

[Nukerjsr]

Originally Posted by Waking_Dreamer

Well similar reasons to the student council president not outrightly saying NO to Kitamura. They would be lying and it hurt too much already to stare them in the eye and and say no with a straight face.

Im not exactly sure what your asking though. Are you saying she should have rejected Ruuji more sternly? Or after rejecting him...try to comfort him as to preserve the friendship? Isnt that too much?

Personally Minori and Ami have sacrificed so much already, I dont know how much more selfless can people want them to be, in regards to the Ruuji relationship at least.

Maybe not sternly, emotionally. Like, she should still show care for Ryuuji throughout this whole thing. We know that Taiga is the reason she isn't going to hook up with Ryuuji, but shouldn't Ryuuji's feelings be put into play? Shouldn't she say something along the lines like "Hey, I don't want to be with you but I still really care for you." After all, they are supposed to be friends. I don't want this characters to grow isolated.

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

Read between the lines, she couldn't even look him in the eyes the entire time. She acted the way she did because she didn't want him to see how hard it was for her to reject him, why do you think she pulled the cap over her eyes at the end? I also don't think she was concerned with being his friend after this when she did this, she'll probably feel guilty later in the story but this was all for Taiga. To help Taiga she knew she had to hurt him.

Granted, she did have to hurt him to get the message across, but it was just executed in a bad manner (imo). The emotional shift she has where she acts happy during that ONE scene and was depressed the entire time feels awkward. It feels like the way that Minori pulled it off that she almost gave the impression like she never cared. I always felt like Minori DID want to be Ryuuji's friend because she was the kind of person who thrived off other people's happiness. Especially if that involves making your friend's lovers feel comfortable too.

I think part of that just applies to how Ryuuji takes it. I mean, he doesn't get ANY of the little hints and pieces of advices given to him. Yet Minori says that she doesn't want to find ghosts and aliens and he suddenly gets it.

The whole episode makes both characters just look really bad.