Mahouka [LN/M] - Character Speculation/Theories: Tatsuya

[Nicaea]

Originally Posted by Rava

Yes, there was. It's about being consistent with what his abilities do. The novel hints that having Elemental Sight is *the* reason he can do all that and even uses it as a lynchpin for why he can pull off other things (Gram Dispersion, Third Eye/long distance targeting).
And now we have a warning sign that Miyuki can seal that off completely. It's practically screaming at us that losing Elemental Sight is his Achilles' heel.

Miyuki can't use magic if she does that. And Kokonoe has trained him to sense things, so he'll be less reliant on ES. So much for an Achilles' heel.

Originally Posted by Pegasai

You don't seem to be too good at reading comprehension...

This is what I said: It's as if the author refuses to give Tatsuya a single real flaw...Tatsuya's supposedly "not skilled" at CAD hardware, but his skill is still well beyond high school level to the point where he's confident he can construct his own version of a military weapon (Third Eye)...Tatsuya doesn't consider himself "too skilled" at hacking, yet he can hack any computer system almost as well as Fujibayashi, whose magic gives her a broken hacking ability.

Translation:
Through the conversation between Suzune and Chiaki, the author initially tries to make Tatsuya less OP and tries to present hardware as a weakness. Through Tatsuya's internal monologue, the author again tries to make Tatsuya less OP and tries to present hacking as another area of weakness.

If you actually read, you would have known that my point was those aren't true weaknesses and are actually strengths that make Tatsuya even more OP than he should be.

Not once did I say or even imply that he sucks at hardware or hacking. I only said the opposite, actually.

Suzune later murmurs that she'd make a fine con artist. She said that she felt it was a necessary lie in order to not lose Chiaki's talent.

[zerozeronine]

Originally Posted by Nicaea

Miyuki can't use magic if she does that. And Kokonoe has trained him to sense things, so he'll be less reliant on ES. So much for an Achilles' heel.

He can't use Decomp without ES and I think even regrowth.so he'll just have Flashcast and his weak normal magics

[Clutchdog]

Originally Posted by Pegasai

Writing.

I understand you point Pegasai, but you have to realize at the end of the day there's no moral high ground, no correct way to give powers to characters, no correct personality types. It comes down to your subjective preference and what do you want to see/read. If you think Tatsuya is too strong then you're certainly free to do so but do not assume that your point of view is more justified than others', rather aren't there hundreds of protagonists that aren't all that strong? If that's the kind of story you like, isn't it fine to like it and let others like something a bit different? Concerning Tatsuya, the author has stated he wanted to make a protagonist that's counter to the current culture of "boys should show tears". It isn't a shounen battle manga so Tatsuya being strong doesn't matter, it's just different from the usual perspective.

[Nicaea]

Originally Posted by zerozeronine

He can't use Decomp without ES and I think even regrowth.so he'll just have Flashcast and his weak normal magics

He can. Tatsuya uses ES for targeting. He could use MB without ES but it would be pretty hard.

[zerozeronine]

Originally Posted by Nicaea

He can. Tatsuya uses ES for targeting. He could use MB without ES but it would be pretty hard.

He needs to see the information to use Decomp and ES allows him to see the information.

[Valky]

Originally Posted by zerozeronine

He needs to see the information to use Decomp and ES allows him to see the information.

While I agree that he might need ES to Decomp, isn't self-Regrowth like an unconscious move? It happened in a blink after all. It'll be another story if he use it on other people though.

[Guest2]

Originally Posted by Nicaea

He can. Tatsuya uses ES for targeting. He could use MB without ES but it would be pretty hard.

This seems to be a common misunderstanding. ES is not an additional magic sensory ability, it is Tatsuya's only method of targeting for magic and was stated to be a more advanced version of the one all modern magicians use as in v2 and v4.

Miyuki's mental interference magic would shut down ANY modern magician's ability to use magic for exact same reason it would shut down Tatsuya's ES, since they are fundamentally the same sensory skill used by all magicians for modern magic targeting - linking to the info dimension. It seems her spirit magic shuts down the mind's ability to work with the info dimension.

Therefore the ES Tatsuya uses for long distance OTH targeting is the same ES ability he uses for regular close targeting. Its the same for any magic he uses, it always involves ES. v10 explains that the further he needs to see only means him concentrating more and immersing himself further into the information dimension, unless he uses one of the regular 5 senses as a 'shortcut' to speed up the process, as explained in v9. Direct line of sight obviously being the most common.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Valky

While I agree that he might need ES to Decomp, isn't self-Regrowth like an unconscious move? It happened in a blink after all. It'll be another story if he use it on other people though.

Yes but the spell triggers automatically on himself, so he doesn't need to use ES, his MCA will restore him automatically.

Originally Posted by Guest2

This seems to be a common misunderstanding. ES is not an additional magic sensory ability, it is Tatsuya's only method of targeting for magic and was stated to be a more advanced version of the one all modern magicians use as in v2 and v4.

Miyuki's mental interference magic would shut down ANY modern magician's ability to use magic for exact same reason it would shut down Tatsuya's ES, since they are fundamentally the same sensory skill used by all magicians for modern magic targeting - linking to the info dimension. It seems her spirit magic shuts down the mind's ability to work with the info dimension.

Therefore the ES Tatsuya uses for long distance OTH targeting is the same ES ability he uses for regular close targeting. Its the same for any magic he uses, it always involves ES. v10 explains that the further he needs to see only means him concentrating more and immersing himself further into the information dimension, unless he uses one of the regular 5 senses as a 'shortcut' to speed up the process, as explained in v9. Direct line of sight obviously being the most common.

Pretty much this.

[Valky]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

Yes but the spell triggers automatically on himself, so he doesn't need to use ES, his MCA will restore him automatically.

Precisely my point. He doesn't need ES for Self-Regrowth.

Btw, what is MCA stands for?

[zerozeronine]

Originally Posted by Valky

Precisely my point. He doesn't need ES for Self-Regrowth.

Btw, what is MCA stands for?

Magic Calculation Area

[Valky]

Originally Posted by zerozeronine

Magic Calculation Area

Ah, thanks.

[passin'gass]

It just occurred to me, and I apologise if it was already brought up, but Tats won't need Third Eye once he has control of Hliðskjálf.

Echelon III is Global in scope, all seeing. Coupled together with ES, he would truly be Mahesvara, outside the system and untouchable.

No wonder Maya doesn't yet want him to access her "sponsor" Sage's system!

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by passin'gass

No wonder Maya doesn't yet want him to access her "sponsor" Sage's system!

Where did you read that? They can't chose who will be a Sage, it's random.

[Guest2]

Not yet atleast, since the butler suggested in the vamp arc Tatsuya might have the ability to trace the system for the Yotsuba to take over for their exclusive use.

[passin'gass]

Maya can access Hliðskjálf (vol. 11) but she is not a Sage (I think), and her butler is worried that the info gained is not completely trustworthy or safe to use.

Thus, I theorize that their mysterious Sponsor is one of the other 5 Sages not yet named other than Ray and Heigu.

Edit: OTOH, if she is indeed a Sage, their sponsor is none other than the Royal Family

[Echizen777]

A Sage is a Hliðskjálf user so she is a Sage, Raymond and Jiedo are Sages too.

[passin'gass]

We're getting off topic

[evalot1997]

The royal family theory is not confirmed to be true yet though.

[Nicaea]

Zhou has been raising a special breed of shikigami. I wonder if Tatsuya, given his training and knowledge of ninjutsu and ancient magic in general, could somehow develop a way to create shikigami with modern magic? (maybe he would need to consult kudou, he did mention that he wanted to learn from him once)

[Pegasai]

Originally Posted by bietchie11

Well, the logic is the same between CAD and computer. You need to write code and re-arrage it into loops to make the program/spell functionable.
Beside, even if i'm wrong about CAD and computer, it doesn't matter anyway. Why can't he be good at both??

He can be good at both.
He just can't be good at both, and be a master in physical fighting, and be a Strategic Class Magician, and everything else he has.
Well...he can in a LN, but the point is that this is highly unrealistic and runs contrary to the rest of the LN, which is portrayed quite realistically.

Originally Posted by bietchie11

Spoiler for the quote:

My parents always said that: " if you are not as talent as other people, put more effort/time than them!!". It is pretty common phrase actually, there is even a moral story about it: "The Tortoise and the Hare".
The question is "What if you don't have more time than they have?". People may think otherwise but one person's time is limited. Unless the talented ones slack off, you can't possiblily do the same thing as they do. Just like in the story, if the hare takes it seriously, the tortoise would lose.

=> In other word, just because you can't do something even though you put all your effort in, that doesn't mean others can't do that.

I don't even recall comparing myself to Tatsuya as you claimed that I did.

Anyone with graduate-level research experience will tell you that even if you could analyze the data in a second, just gathering and compiling the necessary data takes 40-60 hours a week and that has to be done over a period of months and sometimes even years. A claim that talent and effort could somehow reduce that is misinformed at best and idiotic at worst.

Anyone with martial arts experience will tell you that simply maintaining martial arts skill, depending on talent, takes anywhere from 6-10 hours a week; learning martial arts & physically getting into shape from the beginning takes much longer than that.

I can't even begin to imagine how much time it takes to learn how to hack at a professional level. And hacking skill is something that has to be improved continually (as opposed to simply being maintained) since computer science is developing at a rapid rate.

There are 168 hours in a week. Sleeping a low 6 hours a day (which is actually sleep deprivation) takes 42 hours a week away. Let's say that going to and from school and attending school takes another 40 hours out (8 hours a day for five days), which is a low-ball estimate since First High has school on Saturdays and Tatsuya has after school activities as well. Let's also assume that Tatsuya is a fast eater, never eats out, and as such, takes only 1 hour each day to eat all three meals (7 hours a week).

That leaves a sleep-deprived Tatsuya 79 hours a week to spoil Miyuki by taking her out shopping, hang out with friends, regularly tune Miyuki's CAD which reportedly takes Tatsuya an hour each time he does it, read enough news to become as familiar with world events as he is, read up on the latest developments of science and magic, maintain his martial arts skills with Kokonoe, get familiar with the latest developments in computer software to maintain his hacking skills, go on part-time missions with the military, and gather data & analyze data for at least three different research projects.

And this is all assuming that he had the time to learn everything in the first place.

Basically, you get to the point where you run out of time. So no, this wasn't just me "comparing myself to Tatsuya" and saying that it's impossible for Tatsuya because it's impossible for me. It's impossible for anyone living in a world with 24 hours in a day.

Originally Posted by Nicaea

Suzune later murmurs that she'd make a fine con artist. She said that she felt it was a necessary lie in order to not lose Chiaki's talent.

The "lie" in question was that Chiaki could catch up to Tatsuya if she worked hard enough. Suzune knows that it's impossible for anyone to catch up to Tatsuya.

However, it was not a lie that Tatsuya is much better at software than he is at hardware. That's why Tatsuya remains only half of Taurus Silver. Of course, he's brilliant at hardware, but he's phenomenal at software.

Originally Posted by Clutchdog

I understand you point Pegasai, but you have to realize at the end of the day there's no moral high ground, no correct way to give powers to characters, no correct personality types. It comes down to your subjective preference and what do you want to see/read. If you think Tatsuya is too strong then you're certainly free to do so but do not assume that your point of view is more justified than others', rather aren't there hundreds of protagonists that aren't all that strong? If that's the kind of story you like, isn't it fine to like it and let others like something a bit different? Concerning Tatsuya, the author has stated he wanted to make a protagonist that's counter to the current culture of "boys should show tears". It isn't a shounen battle manga so Tatsuya being strong doesn't matter, it's just different from the usual perspective.

As far as subjective preferences go, I remember saying that I prefer OP main characters and dislike the typical shounen protagonist. But even for an OP character, a main character skilled in so many different disciplines is highly out of place in a realistic setting like the Mahoukaverse. It's really jarring to read.

You can disagree and I even agreed to disagree with anyone who decided to argue that Tatsuya's abilities are somehow realistic and believable.

This particular discussion was over and done with.

I merely responded to bietchie11 because he misunderstood my posts and used that as grounds to insult me.