Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha ViVid Manga Discussion

[00-Raiser]

Obviously because there's not enough interest in the US to be profitable. Not to mention not having the season that came before it.

[Kaijo]

In case some people were curious:

Spoiler for Madoka/Ryuki image:

http://imageshack.us/f/651/1306734624117.jpg/

That's what we mean, when we talk about how the plot was lifted almost exactly from another series.

So... any word on when new translated chapters are comin'? And who will be in the next major fight? I'm betting Rio will be next, and she'll win her fight.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Tsuzuki's writing is solid

Riiight. StrikerS. Solid. Yeah.

Originally Posted by Kaijo

I find Tsuzuki's writing fairly solid; at least it doesn't have the large plot holes of Madoka, heh.

I'm tempted to bring the "teleportation, whether personal or starship based, should've have make things vastly different" argument, but we've been there.

And I don't know what you count as "solid", but I guess you don't factor consistency into the equation? *cough*ferret mode*cough*timeline of Alhazard*cough*Flight magic for everyone!*cough*who can use teleport*cough*etc*cough*

Man I need a medicine.

Oh, and I'm sure he has the answers somewhere in his head, but that's the problem: it's in his head. And he really need to adhere to "show, don't tell" more.

EDIT: Oh, and since we're talking about Vivid?

Horses. In an age far advanced than our present day -starship, teleporters, and what not. C'mon, this is an age that spits at scientific ethics! - it turns out that Heileger Kaiser Olivia Segbrecht, commander of the Belkan remnants and lord of the Cradle, a frickin' battleship, uses horses for transport. And not even a special horse, for Kaiser's sake - not some kind of cyborg horse or a pegasus, just a horse. Nevermind that her genetic enhancements would allow her to travel faster and further than the horse, or that she could fly, or that considering that she's the supreme commander of the entire armed forces they could have at least afford a magical APC or VTOL gunship.

Solid as tofu, I say.

Originally Posted by Kaijo

And while Tsuzuki borrows heavily from general shonen tropes, at least he doesn't lift his entire plot from another series like Madoka did.

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Super Robot Wars?

My thought's the same as Aki.

[Justin_Brett]

Solid enough that it was entertaining.

[Zero Hurricane]

Or even make a dizzy head, given the many unsolved mysteries in Nanoha's previous series.

[Craxuan]

Tofu is still solid, until you eat it that is.

That being said, to me the only 'successful' anime out of all three in the Nanoha series is the first and original Nanoha. It most certainly presented the theme friendship and bond is the best way possible, which I believe almost all people would agree here since, hey, you are still a Nanoha fan after so many years eh? There's a writer's inspiration right there that certainly cannot be overlooked.

The Nanoha series was originally meant to be slightly dark, real and actually serious (Hence why my favorite was the first). How did it degenerate into a comedial wreck is quite facepalming really...

A is too short and really feels like I'm reading a plot summary, but otherwise pretty epic. The Japanese fan service/culture/otaku brainwashing abilities obviously began to corrupt, but not so much that it's unacceptable.

After that I just don't care. Obviously if I try to scrutinize every single inconsistencies in the StrikerS, Vivid, and Force series they would pile up infinitely like Plastic Island. I just don't quite understand why a writer would not insist to correct them; no self-proclaimed writer could miss their own story's flaws. I know mine pretty darn well, although didn't exactly have the time to fix it yet...

[Iromaru]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

In case some people were curious:

Spoiler for Madoka/Ryuki image:

http://imageshack.us/f/651/1306734624117.jpg/

That's what we mean, when we talk about how the plot was lifted almost exactly from another series.

So... any word on when new translated chapters are comin'? And who will be in the next major fight? I'm betting Rio will be next, and she'll win her fight.

Good job. You posted Gorespammer's troll picture.

This whole "Madoka ripped off [insert name]" is pure bullshit.

Everybody who actually saw Ryuki or Uta Kata or any other series Madoka is accused of copying know it's just shitty trolling.

[Mirron]

Anyways, I like Vivid. I like Nanoha as a whole. Not sure what you need beyond just simple enjoyment, and I can only assume you enjoy it or else being here is a little odd. I'd be surprised if Olivia actually... used horses in times when it was important, and if it isn't important, don't see why her riding on a horse is such a big deal. Could have glossed over something in the flashback sequences though. But I don't really feel there are any major issues. Some things that are a bit illogical, but unless such things are the most important part of a story (which, for me, is just how the story flows, if the characters are enjoyable, which for Nanoha overall all of it is), I'm not sure why it'd be too important.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

Riiight. StrikerS. Solid. Yeah.

Feel free to head over to the StrikerS thread and post why you feel StrikerS isn't solid writing. I won't deny there are a few things I would have liked done differently, but I don't see StrikerS as having any major issues.

I'm tempted to bring the "teleportation, whether personal or starship based, should've have make things vastly different" argument, but we've been there.

And I don't know what you count as "solid", but I guess you don't factor consistency into the equation? *cough*ferret mode*cough*timeline of Alhazard*cough*Flight magic for everyone!*cough*who can use teleport*cough*etc*cough*

I'm not sure why you see "flight magic for everyone" as a problem of consistency. Especially given the fact that not everyone has flight magic.

EDIT: Oh, and since we're talking about Vivid?

Horses. In an age far advanced than our present day -starship, teleporters, and what not. C'mon, this is an age that spits at scientific ethics! - it turns out that Heileger Kaiser Olivia Segbrecht, commander of the Belkan remnants and lord of the Cradle, a frickin' battleship, uses horses for transport. And not even a special horse, for Kaiser's sake - not some kind of cyborg horse or a pegasus, just a horse. Nevermind that her genetic enhancements would allow her to travel faster and further than the horse, or that she could fly, or that considering that she's the supreme commander of the entire armed forces they could have at least afford a magical APC or VTOL gunship.

Keep in mind you've only seen the barest fractions of what happened in the past. There are people today who keep horses and use them for sport or riding.
We don't know the full circumstances, and at least I've learned to avoid jumping to conclusions based on bare information. Well, at least I don't cling to my conclusions, treating them more as a hypothesis that can be easily changed when more information makes the picture clearer.

Originally Posted by Iromaru

Good job. You posted Gorespammer's troll picture.

This whole "Madoka ripped off [insert name]" is pure bullshit.

Everybody who actually saw Ryuki or Uta Kata or any other series Madoka is accused of copying know it's just shitty trolling.

Interesting. So you deny the picture's noted similarities? I have also read several blog posts from people who have seen both series, and go more in depth on where they are alike and where they are different. True, Madoka isn't an exact ripoff, but the basic plot lines and many elements are lifted and fudged slightly. However, this isn't a discussion for this thread. If you'd like, you can VM or PM me if you'd like to enlighten me, though.

For anyone else interested in reading more, just google "Madoka Ryuki" and you'll get a number of links you can purse through at your leisure.

Edit: I'll add this link to a blog where a guy (for fun!) talks about the similarities between Ryuki and the first five episodes of Madoka (which were all that had aired at that point in time).

[Iromaru]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Interesting. So you deny the picture's noted similarities? I have also read several blog posts from people who have seen both series, and go more in depth on where they are alike and where they are different. True, Madoka isn't an exact ripoff, but the basic plot lines and many elements are lifted and fudged slightly.

Yes. I'll just quote my previous post on the matter:

"Ryuki is nothing like Madoka. That picture is just a part of Gorespammer's trolling campaign.

And most of those "similarities" are just ridiculous. I'm sure Ryuki introduced man-eating monsters. Or magical contracts. Or wishes you have to fight for. Or fights in a magical place normal people can't enter. Or people trying to heal their friends/lovers/family members. Or insanity. Or time travel. Etc.

Don't buy this cheap trolling.

People on 2ch were comparing Madoka and Ryuki much earlier than 4chan did, and nobody ever said it's a rip-off there. Things like yellow mahou shojo/rider dying first are just a references. Just like outfit colors in Nanoha copying mecha. And kamen rider fans in japan loved the references in Madoka. There are many fanarts with that theme."

[Justin_Brett]

I still like the image, just because it shows that Madoka isn't completely new and revolutionary like a lot of people think.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

My thought's the same as Aki.

I think we are all waiting for Tsuzuki to drop the act and insert the JAM Project insert song and the SWR cast cameos he wanted so bad.

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

I still like the image, just because it shows that Madoka isn't completely new and revolutionary like a lot of people think.

Nope, it bitchslapped a genre that really needed one. And I think the Nanoha franchise needs a bitchslap too, because it is growing too comfortable with its own tropes for its own good. Which is why I brought up Gen and what he did with Fate franchise.

[Justin_Brett]

I would disagree vehemently with that.

[Iromaru]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

I still like the image, just because it shows that Madoka isn't completely new and revolutionary like a lot of people think.

Madoka is revolutionary. Because it's the first truly serious mahou shojo that sold and became popular.

It's not 100% original of course, nothing is. But it definitely is something fresh.

[Justin_Brett]

Originally Posted by Iromaru

Madoka is revolutionary. Because it's the first truly serious mahou shojo that sold and became popular.

What about Mai Hime? That was fairly popular for a while.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Iromaru

Madoka is revolutionary. Because it's the first truly serious mahou shojo that sold and became popular.

How do you figure? What about Pretty Cure that's been running for seven years, or Sailor Moon that's still popular after nearly 20 years?

It's too early to say Madoka was revolutionary because so far there's been no change in the genre. We haven't seen any 'clones' of it being produced like what happened with Evangelion when it first aired.

What does it matter which series is better than the other? Are you going to win a prize if you can somehow convince everyone that Madoka is the best thing ever?

And so what if something has marked similarities to something else? If it was great in the one thing, then it'll be great in the other too. Look at God of War: there's plenty of so called God of War clones out there, but so what? God of War had a great and fun gameplay system so that other games play like it is a good thing.

There's this quote that I quite like: "Literature has always been a huge crucible in which familiar themes are continually recast."

So stop complaining that Vivid is like a typical shonen action manga, or that Madoka is like Ryuki, or that Guilty Crown is like Code Geass. It doesn't matter at all.

[Jimmy C]

This isn't the place to be debating Madoka. While it's a worthwhile discussion, port it to the Madoka board instead. It could use the traffic.

[Iromaru]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

How do you figure? What about Pretty Cure that's been running for seven years, or Sailor Moon that's still popular after nearly 20 years?

I said "truly serious mahou shojo". Sailor Moon and Pre Cure had few serious episodes but it was nothing comparable to Madoka. They are also hundreds of episodes long monster of the week series.

Madoka is a short, serious, plot driven series. And it's the first mahou shojo following this formula that became a tremendous success. Will there be more? Only time can tell. But with Madoka being the 3rd best selling TV anime of all time it's very likely. Merchandise sales are also amazing.

BTW, show me 3 NGE clones that are not Rahxephon.

But it's true, this is not really Nanoha related.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Nope, it bitchslapped a genre that really needed one. And I think the Nanoha franchise needs a bitchslap too, because it is growing too comfortable with its own tropes for its own good. Which is why I brought up Gen and what he did with Fate franchise.

Well. Tsuzuki half-heartedly attempted to subvert or deconstruct various of his own tropes with Force with mixed results, interesting for some fans, terrible for others. Personally it looks like he really wanted to make something new and different with the franchise but at the same time found himself unable to get rid of various cliches ended with a mixed bag. I just hope this didn't become like Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicles were the CLAMP's where creating the story on the way and ended up with an utter mess(fortunately they saved some face at the end by denying all the suppossed connections with Card Captor Sakura aside of Sakura giving the Star Rod to Yuuko).

[Justin_Brett]

Not every episode has to be emotionally draining for something to be 'truly serious'.

(And RahXephon had a lot of ideas of its own and was much more coherent than Evangelion, so I don't consider it a clone.)