AnimeSuki Forums

Terrestrial Dream · 2009-04-14, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yokai

That always changes in anime/manga. (see Trigun)

Sure, he feels like shit after, but eventually it has to happen or else the series will go nowhere.

What? FMA story has progressed great deal without Ed killing anyone and it will keep on progressing from the look of the latest chapters.

yezhanquan · 2009-04-14, 21:59

Wait: Homunculus are humans? Since when? They look human (at least most of the time), may sound human, but, to me, they are not humans. What's wrong with killing abominations?

Samanosuke · 2009-04-14, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Wait: Homunculus are humans? Since when? They look human (at least most of the time), may sound human, but, to me, they are not humans. What's wrong with killing abominations?

It's not about them being humans or not , it's about them being living being.
And as Pinako notted , if Ed was to acknowledge the thing they transmuted as not being human , it would be the same as acknowledging Al isn't . Same thing applies to Humunculus.

yezhanquan · 2009-04-14, 22:17

Er.... Al was formerly a human (and not that he died. He... came back different). I don't think homunculus can be said to be formerly human. As living things, these fellows barely qualify. Barely.

orangejuicetang · 2009-04-14, 22:26

technically, wrath could be said to be formerly human. And the current greed as well.

yezhanquan · 2009-04-14, 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

technically, wrath could be said to be formerly human. And the current greed as well.

Ah, yes. Wrath was made from a human. Same with Greed (and no guarantees that Ling Yao would lose permanently).

Charred Knight · 2009-04-14, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Er.... Al was formerly a human (and not that he died. He... came back different). I don't think homunculus can be said to be formerly human. As living things, these fellows barely qualify. Barely.

To quote Volume 10

Roy Mustang: You Monster
Lust: How Rude We have the same appearance as you, the same 5 senses. The same emotions, We have the same love for the parents that gave birth to us. WE ARE HUMAN

The homonculus showing emotions other than the dominant one is shown countless times in Envy, Gluttony, and Greed. The Homonculi certainly act human.

yezhanquan · 2009-04-14, 22:35

Well, I only hope that their mercy wouldn't come back to bite them. Envy had already recovered once. He could do it again.

orangejuicetang · 2009-04-14, 22:35

don't they technically consider themselves the next evolutionary step up from humans?

Samanosuke · 2009-04-15, 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Er.... Al was formerly a human (and not that he died. He... came back different). I don't think homunculus can be said to be formerly human. As living things, these fellows barely qualify. Barely.

actually , if we use that same logic , the Homunculus are pretty much humans too....considering they are made from a being that was created after he transmuttated countless of humans to get a physical form. not to mention he was created from human blood.

duckroll · 2009-04-16, 05:36

I find it completely repulsive that people would consider the Homunculi to not be sentient beings. I think that's a much better term since humans would imply the human species on a whole. The Homunculi are clearly not human in that sense, some are more like humans than others (Greed and Wrath in particular) but overall they definitely have a different sort of root origin. The big question for the series will probably be the root origin of Father, the original Homunculus.

Even though he was born from Hohenheim's blood, it's obvious his source of origin is not quite of this world. He had knowledge that simply did not exist in the world at the time, and his liberation from the flask is the origin of all unworldly knowledge in the world. The origin of the alchemy we see in the story, as well as the Homunculi, etc.

But to say that the Homunculi are not people is kinda insulting. They are capable of intelligent thought, decision making, logic forming, etc. They live among humans, and can communicate and co-exist with humans. They have also shown that they're perfectly capable of understanding what humans consider right and wrong, and sometimes even performing acts that qualify under acts of goodness. Obviously to them, the nature of good and evil is completely different from how we might see it, but that doesn't mean much since even among humans, the scale of morality drastically differs from person to person depending on his/her upbringing, social status and environment.

They are definitely to be considered intelligent sentient beings, and as such applying our human moral values into the equation would mean that they should be afforded the same human rights that we give to any other person. If an alien race makes contact with Earth, does it mean we can mercilessly kill them without consequence just because they're not human? Food for thought...

yezhanquan · 2009-04-16, 06:22

Well, if said aliens had little regard for human life and play us for fools, I'll be the first to advocate burning them to ash. Also, both Envy and Lust think of themselves as "above" humans. Kudos to Mustang for letting them know more about humans.

Sannom · 2009-04-16, 10:17

Quote:

Why didn't they let Roy burn the motherfucker for good?
Manga morals are too soft.

Remember how rage and hatred messed up Scar's life? The state Mustang is in right now is the exact same state Scar was in when he killed the Rockbell. A state of complete blindness, where you don't see the evil you're doing. Here, Mustang got all sadistic just like Envy, and even threatened Riza. Can't you see what is wrong in this?

As for Envy, don't worry. He will die. Shortly, either from one of Riza's bullets, Scar's alchemy or one of May's knives (I could see her trying to destroy the source of the dispute between her friends, seeing that she is the one responsible for that mess). The difference? His killer would kill him because it's something they had to do, not because of bloodlust.

orangejuicetang · 2009-04-16, 18:57

Something that's been bothering me a bit. You know how the homunculus all have a sorta special ability? And how they have a nickname relating to that ability? For example, Greed's "ultimate shield", Wrath's "Ultimate eye", Lust's "Ultimate Lance". What happened to the other four? Did the author just drop that ultimate scheme? Or is just that only those three have the "ultimate" prefix for their abilities?

Kirarakim · 2009-04-16, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

Something that's been bothering me a bit. You know how the homunculus all have a sorta special ability? And how they have a nickname relating to that ability? For example, Greed's "ultimate shield", Wrath's "Ultimate eye", Lust's "Ultimate Lance". What happened to the other four? Did the author just drop that ultimate scheme? Or is just that only those three have the "ultimate" prefix for their abilities?

I am not sure about the term "ultimate" but they all have unique powers. Envy can change shape, Gluttony can "eat" anything, Sloth is extremely fast, and Pride has complete control over the shadows.

orangejuicetang · 2009-04-17, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

I am not sure about the term "ultimate" but they all have unique powers. Envy can change shape, Gluttony can "eat" anything, Sloth is extremely fast, and Pride has complete control over the shadows.

I already know about the powers. I'm just asking about the naming/nicknaming/code naming/[insert type of naming here] of the homunculus abilities. Do they no longer have that cool "ultimate" prefix in front of their power? Although, "ultimate stomach"/ "ultimate digestion" sorta pale in coolness factor towards "ultimate shield". I guess it would be kind of hard to give Gluttony the ultimate nickname, but I think the others still qualify. Envy could have "ultimate appearance", Sloth "ultimate body", and pride "ultimate shadow".

SnowCrasher · 2009-04-18, 00:48

Don't forget that Gluttony also had the fake gate inside him too.

I also think it's cruel to just consider the Homunculi as "abomination which must be destroyed." While they are ultimately driven by sinful instincts, they also are sentient beings and have emotion.

Now as for the origin of the original Homunculus - the Father - my theory is that he was originally brought from the other side of the gate, and is a piece of the "truth" brought out with the help of human blood... but just how in the world did Hohenheim's master manage to bring him to our world? He must have been either one heck of an alchemist or extremely lucky! (or sold his soul to the devil. XD) I would definitely like to know more about the background of Hohenheim's Homunculus.

Zaresh · 2009-04-20, 02:20

But, wasn't Father existing (in an homunculus form? when Hohen still was just a slave?

Jarmel · 2009-04-20, 08:19

They're sentient but they still should be put down. As seen by Greed, they are only driven by their emotions and never question(aside from Greed but that is more due to personality) why they are following Father. Once again Mustang is doing the right thing as Envy is too much of a pain not to mention previous deeds to live. To be honest I would let Mustang go on a rampage against the homunculi and once they were all dead then I would say stop. Have you forgotten that they most likely are trying to wipe out an entire country? if they want to stop Mustang from just going berserk then best way would be for Ed to Envy(very much not likely).

Umaibo · 2009-04-25, 22:33

I am curious what Wrath's ability is. Saying the eye "sees all" would be too vague. Wrath mentioned that he got through battlefields with that eye. He might have even dodged bullets with that eye. One possibility is that the eye can see into the future or something. That would explain why he foresaw the stunt Ed pulled during the National Alchemist Exam.

2009-04-14, 21:59	Link #422
yezhanquan Observer/Bookman wannabe Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 38	Wait: Homunculus are humans? Since when? They look human (at least most of the time), may sound human, but, to me, they are not humans. What's wrong with killing abominations? __________________

2009-04-14, 22:17	Link #424
yezhanquan Observer/Bookman wannabe Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 38	Er.... Al was formerly a human (and not that he died. He... came back different). I don't think homunculus can be said to be formerly human. As living things, these fellows barely qualify. Barely. __________________

2009-04-14, 22:26	Link #425
orangejuicetang Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Age: 32	technically, wrath could be said to be formerly human. And the current greed as well. __________________ WORDS IN THE HEART CANNOT BE TAKEN If a corrupt court will not behead an evil king, than the watchman should do it himself.

2009-04-14, 22:35	Link #428
yezhanquan Observer/Bookman wannabe Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 38	Well, I only hope that their mercy wouldn't come back to bite them. Envy had already recovered once. He could do it again. __________________

2009-04-14, 22:35	Link #429
orangejuicetang Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Age: 32	don't they technically consider themselves the next evolutionary step up from humans? __________________ WORDS IN THE HEART CANNOT BE TAKEN If a corrupt court will not behead an evil king, than the watchman should do it himself.

2009-04-16, 05:36	Link #431
duckroll 綺羅星★！ Join Date: Jan 2004 Age: 42	I find it completely repulsive that people would consider the Homunculi to not be sentient beings. I think that's a much better term since humans would imply the human species on a whole. The Homunculi are clearly not human in that sense, some are more like humans than others (Greed and Wrath in particular) but overall they definitely have a different sort of root origin. The big question for the series will probably be the root origin of Father, the original Homunculus. Even though he was born from Hohenheim's blood, it's obvious his source of origin is not quite of this world. He had knowledge that simply did not exist in the world at the time, and his liberation from the flask is the origin of all unworldly knowledge in the world. The origin of the alchemy we see in the story, as well as the Homunculi, etc. But to say that the Homunculi are not people is kinda insulting. They are capable of intelligent thought, decision making, logic forming, etc. They live among humans, and can communicate and co-exist with humans. They have also shown that they're perfectly capable of understanding what humans consider right and wrong, and sometimes even performing acts that qualify under acts of goodness. Obviously to them, the nature of good and evil is completely different from how we might see it, but that doesn't mean much since even among humans, the scale of morality drastically differs from person to person depending on his/her upbringing, social status and environment. They are definitely to be considered intelligent sentient beings, and as such applying our human moral values into the equation would mean that they should be afforded the same human rights that we give to any other person. If an alien race makes contact with Earth, does it mean we can mercilessly kill them without consequence just because they're not human? Food for thought...

2009-04-16, 06:22	Link #432
yezhanquan Observer/Bookman wannabe Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 38	Well, if said aliens had little regard for human life and play us for fools, I'll be the first to advocate burning them to ash. Also, both Envy and Lust think of themselves as "above" humans. Kudos to Mustang for letting them know more about humans. __________________ Last edited by yezhanquan; 2009-04-17 at 00:22.

2009-04-16, 18:57	Link #434
orangejuicetang Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Age: 32	Something that's been bothering me a bit. You know how the homunculus all have a sorta special ability? And how they have a nickname relating to that ability? For example, Greed's "ultimate shield", Wrath's "Ultimate eye", Lust's "Ultimate Lance". What happened to the other four? Did the author just drop that ultimate scheme? Or is just that only those three have the "ultimate" prefix for their abilities? __________________ WORDS IN THE HEART CANNOT BE TAKEN If a corrupt court will not behead an evil king, than the watchman should do it himself.

2009-04-18, 00:48	Link #437
SnowCrasher Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008	Don't forget that Gluttony also had the fake gate inside him too. I also think it's cruel to just consider the Homunculi as "abomination which must be destroyed." While they are ultimately driven by sinful instincts, they also are sentient beings and have emotion. Now as for the origin of the original Homunculus - the Father - my theory is that he was originally brought from the other side of the gate, and is a piece of the "truth" brought out with the help of human blood... but just how in the world did Hohenheim's master manage to bring him to our world? He must have been either one heck of an alchemist or extremely lucky! (or sold his soul to the devil. XD) I would definitely like to know more about the background of Hohenheim's Homunculus.

2009-04-20, 02:20	Link #438
Zaresh Caperucita Roja Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Over the rainbow	But, wasn't Father existing (in an homunculus form? when Hohen still was just a slave?

2009-04-20, 08:19	Link #439
Jarmel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006	They're sentient but they still should be put down. As seen by Greed, they are only driven by their emotions and never question(aside from Greed but that is more due to personality) why they are following Father. Once again Mustang is doing the right thing as Envy is too much of a pain not to mention previous deeds to live. To be honest I would let Mustang go on a rampage against the homunculi and once they were all dead then I would say stop. Have you forgotten that they most likely are trying to wipe out an entire country? if they want to stop Mustang from just going berserk then best way would be for Ed to Envy(very much not likely).

2009-04-25, 22:33	Link #440
Umaibo Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007	I am curious what Wrath's ability is. Saying the eye "sees all" would be too vague. Wrath mentioned that he got through battlefields with that eye. He might have even dodged bullets with that eye. One possibility is that the eye can see into the future or something. That would explain why he foresaw the stunt Ed pulled during the National Alchemist Exam.