2013-05-10, 02:41 | Link #1001 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
|
Quote:
As I say, I don't actually think it is a bad thing. People who are publicly insane are easier to avoid than those who are secretly insane. It's just, well, I want Democrats to win because the GOP is frothing at the mouth, but in the long run to have two viable parties is healthier.
__________________
|
|
2013-05-10, 02:45 | Link #1002 | |
cho~ kakkoii
Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
|
Quote:
As for the issue of Benghazi itself, I think it was pretty clear the Obama administration handled it terribly in every possible way when American lives were at stake. At the same time, it should be noted that no evidence suggested up to this day that there was intentional cover up or conspiracies, the kind GOP's are seeking.
__________________
|
|
2013-05-10, 02:47 | Link #1003 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2013-05-10, 07:40 | Link #1006 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
|
Quote:
Also, pretty sure I have a Spiderman and his Amazing Friends membership card lying around somewhere. Doesn't make me a super hero. |
|
2013-05-10, 07:57 | Link #1007 |
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
|
I'm still a bit confused as to why Benghazi is such a big deal. I understand that it's being drawn out in an effort to score political points, but why would anyone in the public buy it? Particularly since the politicians' primary concern seems to be finding out who decided to call it a protest instead of a terrorist attack. Why does that matter?
If they said that some security procedure was missed or handled improperly, then I could understand the witch hunt and procedures analysis. If they wanted to discuss funding and ways to ensure that this didn't happen again then I would say that it's worthwhile. But to claim that something was covered up because the words "terror" and "terrorist" weren't used immediately? Am I missing something, or am I correct in saying that Congress - our highly-paid, public servants - are wasting their time on something ridiculous yet again?
__________________
|
2013-05-10, 12:09 | Link #1011 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
|
Quote:
Seriously, yes Benghazi was a muff of sorts. The stupidity is that *anyone* who remembers past last week is that there were dozens of such incidents over the last 10 years that went without a peep from these same nimrods.
__________________
|
|
2013-05-10, 12:25 | Link #1013 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
|
Wall St. doesn't "create jobs" in any significant way. In fact, they reward corporations for eliminating jobs. And that's the sea change here - figuring out how to multiple money without actually creating value or improving an economy by the use of financial instruments and extraction.
__________________
|
2013-05-10, 12:48 | Link #1014 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
|
Quote:
"why Benghazi is such a big deal." "why would anyone in the public buy it?" "to claim that something was covered up because the words "terror" and "terrorist" weren't used immediately? Am I missing something?" You are missing the context of the moment, and the timing of the falsified and manipulated reporting to protect the Administration's future. The Administration was in a heated political battle, with one of their promoted strengths being the victorious campaign against terrorist opposition to the USA. Voters, swing voters of 2008 who were disappointed with continued involvement in Afghanistan and the Middle East in 2012 were being courted to repeat their vote for President Obama. The strategy was that these voters owed their vote to Obama, despite the continued war in Afghanistan, because the Obama Administration was claiming that their foreign policy had won the war on terror. The message to voters being that the Obama Administration has an obligation to remain in Afghanistan as a temporary (forgivable) concession, because the Obama Administration policies were resulting in a permanent (supportable) solution to the previous hostile attitudes violently expressed against the USA. The Administration could not afford recognition that their foreign policy was ineffective. The direction of the Arab Spring leadership fallout was headed to a more radicalized style of government in Egypt, and the direction of Libya was undetermined. The Obama Administration supported the opposition to Mummar Gaddafi and was framing the Libyan victory as a foreign policy victory. The introduction of troops and military assets in the Obama Administration's Libyan policy had already angered previous Obama supporters who opposed the U.S. entry into another foreign civil war. The Obama Administration policy actions undertaken without an approval vote of Congress was being viewed as arrogance and hypocrisy after the broken promises since 2008. The attack that resulted in the death of the Ambassador would have ravaged these pacifist voter's confidence in the Obama Administration's foreign policy, a risk the Administration could not allow. The Obama Administration choose to covertly redirect the cause of the attack on a motive removed from foreign policy, and in the haste of the moment chose to redirect the motive to an unknown video of limited release and very limited public exposure. This redirection lasted until the election, until the swing voters who were already unhappy with President Obama's foreign policy in Libya were secure Democrat votes. The deception did not start and stop at the introduction of the video as "the motive," it was paralleled with scrubbing of all references to hostile opposition resulting from the Obama Administration foreign policy actions in the Middle East. The word "terror" was replaced by "violence," as if the motive for these actions were unknown and ambiguous (when the Administration received reports both before, during, and after the attack that the violent faction taking action was a terrorist group). The entire deception was a (successful) effort to protect the pacifist voter who was already disappointed with broken promises and the prior involvement in Libya by the Obama Administration. The failure of this deception would have resulted in a lost Presidential campaign, and the Obama Administration knew this risk was too great due to the timing and sensitivity of voter opposition to U.S. involvement in Libya and they chose the video deception to maintain their Democrat Party loyalty. The deception and inaction (before, during and after the attack) was contemptible, more due to the motives than the actual acts, but the coverup and extended embrace that the video was the motive for the attack in Benghazi throughout the election debates and final days when the truth was known to the President is unacceptable. Last edited by flying ^; 2013-05-10 at 13:03. |
|
2013-05-10, 12:56 | Link #1015 | |
Nyaaan~~
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 40
|
Quote:
Financial engineering in and of itself seldom creates value unless it removes inefficiencies or economic drag -- but the economic and financial system itself features importantly for businesses like GE to manage it's daily financing needs to "make stuff" "Wall Street" and "Bankers" are not just stockbrokers, hedge funds and investment bankers (most people don't even have a basic comprehension of what investment bankers even actually do).
__________________
|
|
2013-05-10, 13:24 | Link #1016 | |||
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
|
Quote:
Case in point, those who voted for the Democrats - at least, those who I know (and I know many more of those than I do Republicans) - didn't care about the "war on terror." Most of us (I'm grouped in with this one) thought the entire idea of the "war on terror" was pretty stupid. Terror isn't a country or a person, so how do you win a war on it? It was a term that was coined under President Bush and most of the Democratic voters really didn't care about it. They simply wanted us to withdraw our troops, and while Obama moved much more slowly than people wanted on it, that's what he did. Quote:
In other words, people already knew that our foreign policy was making us very unpopular in the Muslim world, and Democrats blamed former President Bush for that foreign policy (even if Obama didn't radically deviate from it). Trying to pin the embassy flare-up on a video would not have altered that view. As far as voters were concerned, Obama was safe. The motive that you've described doesn't really fit, unless you want to believe that Obama's team was really out of touch with American citizens. If you do believe that, practically every political analyst disagrees with you, as I've read nothing but praise and grudging admiration for how Obama's campaign operated. Quote:
__________________
|
|||
2013-05-10, 15:14 | Link #1018 | ||
=^^=
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 42° 10' N (Latitude) 87° 33' W (Longitude)
Age: 45
|
Quote:
A game with no endgame is dangerous; for it can perpetuate and be prolonged. Quote:
After the Iraq War was ended, the question I have is: "OK, what did we get out of it?" With Afganistan, OK. It was to completely destroy this country's capability to host large scale terrorist operations. Well, that's done, especially after bin Laden's death. So, it's time for troops to get back home; and the remainder of the job falls on monitoring and prevention.
__________________
|
||
2013-05-10, 15:54 | Link #1020 | |
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
|
Quote:
That goes for just about every other country, as well. The biggest blunder that many Americans made (possibly even within our government) was the assumption that everyone on this planet wants to be just like us, and that they would do it if only they weren't repressed. Remove the dictator, help to ensure that at least one fair election is held, and then the country will automatically become a democracy in our image. Hopefully we all know better now.
__________________
|
|
|
|