Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 02 Discussion/Poll

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by Papaya

If you're building 4 variants to fulfill 4 different roles, that's not versatility.
If you have one model to fulfill 4 different roles, THAT'S versatility.

However, they are using the same basic frame to create 4 different variants, which is versatility as far as military hardware is concerned.

[srb]

The Tieren is a versatile standard design that can be further niched and specialized for certain roles, like its Black History grandfather, the Zaku II.

[Papaya]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

However, they are using the same basic frame to create 4 different variants, which is versatility as far as military hardware is concerned.

That's because they're all originated from the same technology.

Clearly the actual Tieren itself is not versatile enough to handle as many roles as the Hellion, Enact, or Flag, which is why it has to be outfitted permanently with additional hardware in order to carry out specialized roles.

I'm not sure how you get the impression that doing so means versatility. If you have to perform upgrades to a model in order to fulfill basic roles, that's deficiency in design, not versatility.

That's why we don't see variants of the Hellion popping up. They're already versatile enough that they can fulfill multiple roles without the need for outfitting.

[srb]

I fail to see how the Hellion could perform the roles of artillery support or territory defense as well as the sturdier Tieren can.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by Papaya

That's because they're all originated from the same technology.

Clearly the actual Tieren itself is not versatile enough to handle as many roles as the Hellion, Enact, or Flag, which is why it has to be outfitted permanently with additional hardware in order to carry out specialized roles.

I'm not sure how you get the impression that doing so means versatility. If you have to perform upgrades to a model in order to fulfill basic roles, that's deficiency in design, not versatility.

That's why we don't see variants of the Hellion popping up. They're already versatile enough that they can fulfill multiple roles without the need for outfitting.

By that analogy, the HMMWV (aka Humvee) isn't versatile because it has to be outfitted and modified for different roles, and yet it's clearly the most versatile workhorse of the US military, performing everything from standard troop transport to medevac to FCC to engineering.

We have yet to see the actual range of abilities of the Hellion, Enact and Flag. We know they're designed for aerial combat, and they can engage in melee and ranged combat, but we have yet to see these three perform the range of roles that the Tieren variants have shown (frontline assault, space interdiction, sniping and high-speed assault).

[Papaya]

Originally Posted by srb

I fail to see how the Hellion could perform the roles of artillery support or territory defense as well as the sturdier Tieren can.

We'll have to wait and see, don't we?
As far as we know, there's not even a need for artillery if the AEU and Union exclusively rely on air to ground battles.

As for the HMMWV, good analogy, though my original point still stands.

[TrueKnight]

I expected some bit of realism from the show. Ep 1 showed the Gundams role and what they were made off, Exia = Melee/Close Range, Kyrios = Multirole, Dynames = Long range, Virtue = Close Range/Tank.

Ep 2 just made my hopes down to the drain. We see Dynames doing mid-range and freaking evaded/sommersaulted all the attacks thrown at him in mid-air while firing a sniper rifle beam with dead on accuracy. Truly a disappointment, but still gets an 8 nevertheless because of the plot introductory and the factions.

Lol at the similarity of Union and US's foreign policy. Just hope that we won't get an another Fuckuda.

[Kaioshin Sama]

So Tired, but it's done, Episode 02 Is Up. This is by far the most amibitious blogging job I've taken on, but it's still fun. We get to more of the Gundam 00 world, and I don't really mind too much that the characters are still relatively just faces because even now we're starting to learn a bit more about them. I do however wonder what Dumb Louise and Generic Dude have to do with the overall plot. Perhaps they are merely there to represent the rebellious youth of the 24th century, which would be a neat idea. Other than that, Liu Ming crosses the line this episode by having her man slave carry her around the island. There's being in charge, and then there's just being lazy and arrogant. For all her rambling about forging the future and her agenda setting, she really doesn't seem to have any idea of the bigger picture. Maybe if she were out there on the battlefield more you wouldn't see her smiling about all the stuff that's going on. You certainly don't see any of the 4 main characters getting all emotional and chirpy, because I can bet that after all they've done, if they did stop to think even for a second, they'd go insane.

Another great episode this time that gives us many things to think about, both plotwise and philosophically. That's what I've always liked about Gundam and missed in Seed and Seed Destiny.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by TrueKnight

Ep 2 just made my hopes down to the drain. We see Dynames doing mid-range and freaking evaded/sommersaulted all the attacks thrown at him in mid-air while firing a sniper rifle beam with dead on accuracy. Truly a disappointment, but still gets an 8 nevertheless because of the plot introductory and the factions.

At the least though, we had an explanation for that, since Dynames has two pilots (Haro was the one doing the crazy evasions while Lockon sniped).

@ Kaoishin Sama: Judging from the episode spoilers, it seems that Saji and Louise are there as the civilian side of the world picture, far from the conflict at hand, providing another perspective to the current battle. And if the episode 5 spoilers are any indication, it would seem that we will be knowing more about the future AD world from their perspective, which is a good and believable choice of POV for more exposition of the world situation and setting.

[Papaya]

Hopefully the unilateral ownage is just to draw fans in. Episode 3 already looks to be putting a stop to that, and besides, we haven't seen a real fight between CB's pilots and REAL ace pilots (hopefully Patrick has some more tricks up his sleeve, and wasn't taking Ep 1's fight too seriously). More interesting would probably be the current-generation mobile suits duking it out. I'd love to see a Tieren against a Flag.

Can't wait to see Graham own some face too. I expect him to open up a can of whoopass on Exia before the other Gundams arrive, forcing him to retreat. He'll probably feel confident enough from this encounter to warrant leading the anti-CB task force.

[Kazamachi Shogen]

Originally Posted by Papaya

Hopefully the unilateral ownage is just to draw fans in. Episode 3 already looks to be putting a stop to that, and besides, we haven't seen a real fight between CB's pilots and REAL ace pilots (hopefully Patrick has some more tricks up his sleeve, and wasn't taking Ep 1's fight too seriously). More interesting would probably be the current-generation mobile suits duking it out. I'd love to see a Tieren against a Flag.

Can't wait to see Graham own some face too. I expect him to open up a can of whoopass on Exia before the other Gundams arrive, forcing him to retreat. He'll probably feel confident enough from this encounter to warrant leading the anti-CB task force.

gotta hand down some ownage soon, please own virtue too , I need to see that thing scratched just so to make sure it's not invincible.

[Papaya]

I dunno, to me, it seemed like those sniper Tieren on the battleship/carrier were missing. You can see explosions around Virtue, but not on him.

Don't know if that means the shells were bouncing off them, or if they just had very poor accuracy (which doesn't really make sense, since the artillery Tieren that were firing on the Sinhalese Amphs were dead-on accurate).

EDIT:

Nevermind, he does get shot twice. WHAT THE FUX!

[Kazamachi Shogen]

Originally Posted by Papaya

I dunno, to me, it seemed like those sniper Tieren on the battleship/carrier were missing. You can see explosions around Virtue, but not on him.

Don't know if that means the shells were bouncing off them, or if they just had very poor accuracy (which doesn't really make sense, since the artillery Tieren that were firing on the Sinhalese Amphs were dead-on accurate).

you can actually see shells bouncing off virtue as it prepares to fire. That to me is alarming.

[Papaya]

Yeah, Phase Shift 2.0 I guess.
Hopefully we'll see some armament upgrades as the world powers adjust to their new enemy.

Although, I have to say, I'm liking the physical weaponry right now. I've never been a fan of beam weaponry. Beams just don't feel as visceral as bullets, rockets, mortars, etc.

I assume when he's charging up his beam weapon, it sprays enough GN particles to shield himself. Maybe after firing the blast he'll be drained. Hopefully.

[LoweGear]

It's called a GN Barrier, and is officially listed as one of the Virtue's unique capabilities. We're assuming that only the Virtue has this feature though, as we do have see the other Gundams use this ability, relying on dodging and physical shields to protect themselves.

[Kazamachi Shogen]

If that's indeed phase shit then why would Exia bother dodging or blocking shots? It's already stated that they have infinite amount of energy reserve so getting hit means nothing. If it's not why wouldn't those cannon shells dent virtue. GN prolly works like I field, I don't see them blocking physical shells.

[Kazamachi Shogen]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

It's called a GN Barrier, and is officially listed as one of the Virtue's unique capabilities. We're assuming that only the Virtue has this feature though, as we do have see the other Gundams use this ability, relying on dodging and physical shields to protect themselves.

Hmm, I gotta start buying newtypes again I guess...

[srb]

Virtue was getting hit with physical shells. Tierens do not employ beam weaponry.

Virtue is the only suit with the GN barrier, thus the shields and maneuverability of the other suits.

[Kazamachi Shogen]

Originally Posted by srb

Virtue was getting hit with physical shells. Tierens do not employ beam weaponry.

Virtue is the only suit with the GN barrier, thus the shields and maneuverability of the other suits.

So GN barrier is phase shit then?

[Kaioshin Sama]

Gundam Virtue is built like a tank. What, do people think a couple of shots from far away are going to automatically sink the entire unit? It was built with the idea that it might take some fire while charging in mind. In short, the thing needs to be hit by something either larger, or more focused. People seem to be focusing way to much on the fact that the Gundams ARE powerful compared to the HRA units and not about WHY they are. Does a machine gun round automatically destroy a heavily armored tank? No, it barely scratches it. Does a Rocket Launcher destroy a tank? Probably not entirely, but it's sure to heavily damage it. That is the difference in the HRA weaponary versus the Gundam Virtue. Now if things get to the point where it's reflecting large beam cannons back at the enemy ala the Akatsuki in Seed Destiny, then it will be overpowered and contrived, but right now it's perfectly acceptable that the Gundam Virtue was not sunk by the enemy.

Hell, in the first 2 episodes of Mobile Suit Gundam, the original RX-78 had Zaku Machine Gun rounds bouncing off of it, and even took a beating from Char's Zaku and was not blown to smithereens, and that was because of it's armor. Once Zeon fielded more powerful mobile suits and weaponary though, the RX-78 had a less easy job. The lesson for this series is that the AEU, Union and HRA clearly need better weapons. And that's why I think the Celestial Beings are ultimately just going to instigate a military buildup and escalate the conflicts faster than they can ever hope to supress them.