Mari Okada discussion

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Zetsuen started sucking when it followed the manga exactly and okada had stopped writing episodes st the point.... coincidence?

Zetsuen is glorious! I'll never understand the hate it gets from some people.

From what I understand Okada has followed the manga pretty much all the time,the only original stuff was episode 4 and 7 , those were the last she wrote herself,all the episodes since then have been handled by other writers.
Though I wouldn't surprised if the last few episodes are an anime original ending that she writes herself (and it seems the latest episode started changing things a bit).

Originally Posted by papermario13689

"Sora's Blandest Adventure"

Sounds like a good alternate title for Sketchbook Full Color's (though I do love that anime,maybe my favorite among Okada's works)

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Did she even write any 2010 shows?

Just as a reminder ,you can find a list of her work in the OP

She did Black Butler II and Zakuro that year.I did quite enjoy the latter.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

You didn't like Aquarion EVOL and AKB0048? I thought that they turned out pretty decently all things considered.

Thought those were two of the worst anime I bothered to check out last year. Mileage may vary, I know some people enjoyed Aquarion and AKB, but not me. That's the type of stuff I wish Okada would stay away from the most.

Originally Posted by Westlo

Zetsuen started sucking when it followed the manga exactly and okada had stopped writing episodes st the point.... coincidence?

Never thought zetsuen started sucking. It's been a marvelous show and little of it has to do with Okada.

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

Look at Toradora -- you have ten novels compressed into a two-cour series. In the hands of most writers we would've ended up with a disaster on the magnitude of ... well, just about every other light novel adaptation JC Staff has ever been involved with. And yet Okada managed to craft an adaptation that was both faithful to the source material and one of the best romance series of the decade.

I'm not saying adapting is easy, and certainly a good job will make a difference. Just saying that I think there is an immeasurable difference between crafting something from scratch creatively and just organizing the script of someone else's story. When I think of Mari Okada I like to think of her original works like Ano Hana, True Tears, Hanasaku Iroha, etc. Personally I really loved True Tears, but she has failed to capture that same brilliance ever since (Came close with Ano Hana, but that ending was a bit weak).

And it's not like she's perfect on adaption anyways. I thought her job on Fate/Stay Night was absolutely horrid, and there are other examples.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

And it's not like she's perfect on adaption anyways. I thought her job on Fate/Stay Night was absolutely horrid, and there are other examples.

She did write some scripts but considering she wasn't in charge of series composition for that show I would highly doubt the adaptation choices of which arc to adapt and how were hers. (she also had strictly nothing to do with the UBW movie)

I'm curious as to what your other examples are.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by totoum

She did write some scripts but considering she wasn't in charge of series composition for that show I would highly doubt the adaptation choices of which arc to adapt and how were hers. (she also had strictly nothing to do with the UBW movie)

I'm curious as to what your other examples are.

Wasn't too impressed with her work on Wandering Son (The anime ended up being good despite her work on it but to me it is mostly because the manga is just that good. Though arguably you could say it's due to the limitations placed by noitamina).

Her work on Gosick was mediocre. Did not like her work on Canvas 2.

One of the main series I was thinking of here though was Darker than Black II, but I brain cramped since that's not an adaption.

Overall she's fairly competent at adaptions, but I am mostly concerned with her original work.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Wasn't too impressed with her work on Wandering Son (The anime ended up being despite of her work on it but mostly because the manga is just that good, though arguably you could say it's due to the limitations placed by noitamina).

Her work on Gosick was mediocre. Did not like her work on Canvas 2.

One of the main series I was thinking of here though was Darker than Black II, but I brain cramped since that's not an adaption.

Overall she's fairly competent at adaptions, but I am mostly concerned with her original work.

Can't comment on Wandering Son since I'm not familiar with the source.
I'll agree on Gosick,there were some adaptation choices that left me puzzled.

However she wasn't Series composer for Canvas 2 (and only wrote 3 out of 24 episodes) and speaking of originals Darker than Black II was still very much Okamura Tensai 's baby and I doubt she had major influence in the overall concept and plot (hell,that'd be a question to ask her at the Q&A),though I can't say I liked her episodes (4-6) much.

Just to be clear,I'm not trying to defend her at all cost here, for example I'm with you on originals such as Ano Hana and the only reason I didn't drop black rock shooter was the action scenes.

[Hiroi Sekai]

Originally Posted by totoum

Sounds like a good alternate title for Sketchbook Full Color's (though I do love that anime,maybe my favorite among Okada's works)

Y'know, it does sound it'd work well, now that I see it. :3 Also realized that the title wouldn't have impact on how good the series was, so semi-bad example on my part.

[Kanon]

I agree with Reckoner. Mari Okada is getting a little too much credit for her work on adaptations, far more than other writers I've noticed (which puzzles me). I'm not saying she should get no credit at all (she definitely does a good job on adaptations, in fact, it's probably her strongest suit), but most of it should belong to the original writer, not her, unless the anime made a lot of changes and is a significant improvement over the original material.

As a writer, she should be judged on her own original works, which are very varying in quality to say the least. For each of her series I've liked, there are some I hated. I feel so ambivalent towards her it's not even funny. I wish she were more consistent -one way or another- so I could finally make up my mind about her.

[bhl88]

Was she the lead writer in Hanasaku?

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by bhl88

Was she the lead writer in Hanasaku?

Yes, and it made children cry.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Yes, and it made children cry.

As always, it's a matter of opinion. I quite liked it, and I gave it to my sister (along with a whole bunch of others shows from the last few years) and it was one of the ones she gravitated towards and finished first without any prompting (just "try these and see if you like any of them"). So I'm always a bit amused by the sort of predictable patterned opinions a certain group on this site has formed about certain shows, and then compare it to other random groups. It all depends on who you ask.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

As always, it's a matter of opinion. I quite liked it, and I gave it to my sister (along with a whole bunch of others shows from the last few years) and it was one of the ones she gravitated towards and finished first without any prompting (just "try these and see if you like any of them"). So I'm always a bit amused by the sort of predictable patterned opinions a certain group on this site has formed about certain shows, and then compare it to other random groups. It all depends on who you ask.

Predictable! I'm not sure if you're lumping me in with this group (In that case, I would claim your post makes me cry ) , but by my estimation Hanairo was quite actually varied even among the people that like to talk about it if we went by the discussion.

[bhl88]

Now to see if she should sign Hanasaku Iroha or Ano Hana or get someone to sign both....

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I agree with Reckoner. Mari Okada is getting a little too much credit for her work on adaptations, far more than other writers I've noticed (which puzzles me).

How often are other writers discussed in comparison? If we talked about other writers more, then wouldn't they get more credit for adaptations?

Originally Posted by Kanon

I'm not saying she should get no credit at all (she definitely does a good job on adaptations, in fact, it's probably her strongest suit), but most of it should belong to the original writer, not her, unless the anime made a lot of changes and is a significant improvement over the original material.

By that logic, should the original writer get most of the blame if their adapted show isn't any good? An anime's production staff is responsible for all sorts of story decisions, even if they decide to stick mostly with the original work. There's always the question of what to include and what to cut and what to retell. Even a simple task like deciding how to handle internal dialogue and monologues are important decisions that can affect the quality of the show. Now, these decisions are generally made by a collaboration between the screenwriter and the director (with varying degrees of input depending on the specific project), but it's totally unfair to disregard their creative contribution.

In the case of the Hourou Musuko anime, the most important creative decision was to jump right into junior high and skip the first half (at the time?) of the manga. From this one decision, the production had to go to extra steps in dealing with character introduction, exposition, dealing with past events as flashbacks, and so on. Outside of the first couple of episodes being a bit awkward, the show did a great job of dealing with this. I feel that the main credit should go to Aoki Ei, the director, but Okada played a very important role as well. The mangaka deserves a great deal of praise for the original story, but in lesser hands, the show might not have been nearly as good.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

How often are other writers discussed in comparison? If we talked about other writers more, then wouldn't they get more credit for adaptations?

It's true we don't really have a proper point of comparison. People tend to focus on directors rather than writers. The other writers I can think of who comes close to her popularity (like Urobuchi or Dai Sato) have never worked on real adaptations, so...

What I can tell you, however, is that I very often see the original mangaka/LN author credited in anime threads, and never the anime writer. Okada is about the only exception I can think of.

By that logic, should the original writer get most of the blame if their adapted show isn't any good? An anime's production staff is responsible for all sorts of story decisions, even if they decide to stick mostly with the original work. There's always the question of what to include and what to cut and what to retell. Even a simple task like deciding how to handle internal dialogue and monologues are important decisions that can affect the quality of the show. Now, these decisions are generally made by a collaboration between the screenwriter and the director (with varying degrees of input depending on the specific project), but it's totally unfair to disregard their creative contribution.

In the case of the Hourou Musuko anime, the most important creative decision was to jump right into junior high and skip the first half (at the time?) of the manga. From this one decision, the production had to go to extra steps in dealing with character introduction, exposition, dealing with past events as flashbacks, and so on. Outside of the first couple of episodes being a bit awkward, the show did a great job of dealing with this. I feel that the main credit should go to Aoki Ei, the director, but Okada played a very important role as well. The mangaka deserves a great deal of praise for the original story, but in lesser hands, the show might not have been nearly as good.

I never said we should completely disregard their contribution. Only that most of the praise or blame should rightfully go to the original creator of the story, unless his work has been altered (either in a good or bad way). Besides, I find it hard to tell who should be credited when it comes to adaptations (the director? The writer? The storyboarder? The animators?), so I tend to credit the whole studio (like for Jojo's bizarre adventure). It's more of a team work in my eyes, so I'll never credit a lone writer for an adaptation.

Hourou Musuko is actually kind of a special case. Personally, even though I loved it, I think it could have been even better than it was, but I'm not blaming the anime staff. It was not easy to make it work with only 11 episodes. They did the best they could. The anime staff deserves a lot of praise, but I believe the mangaka deserves even more because one of the main reason this ended up so good is that the original work is that brilliant in the first place.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Kanon

It's true we don't really have a proper point of comparison. People tend to focus on directors rather than writers. The other writers I can think of who comes close to her popularity (like Urobuchi or Dai Sato) have never worked on real adaptations, so...

What I can tell you, however, is that I very often see the original mangaka/LN author credited in anime threads, and never the anime writer. Okada is about the only exception I can think of.

Doesn't that just mean that we don't pay enough attention to writers?

Originally Posted by Kanon

I never said we should completely disregard their contribution. Only that most of the praise or blame should rightfully go to the original creator of the story, unless his work has been altered (either in a good or bad way).

What? That doesn't make the slightest sense - a writer can create a perfectly good work that gets butchered when it gets adapted. And really by only crediting the original creator, you are disregarding everyone else's contribution.

Originally Posted by Kanon

Besides, I find it hard to tell who should be credited when it comes to adaptations (the director? The writer? The storyboarder? The animators?), so I tend to credit the whole studio (like for Jojo's bizarre adventure). It's more of a team work in my eyes, so I'll never credit a lone writer for an adaptation.

If you feel the need to credit individuals, then you should learn more about what it is they actually do. It's not as if the writers is wholly responsible for the work on an original anime. For that matter, mangaka and novellists tend to rely quite a bit on their assistants and editors as well.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Kanon

What I can tell you, however, is that I very often see the original mangaka/LN author credited in anime threads, and never the anime writer. Okada is about the only exception I can think of.

I'll echo what 4Tran said and say that part of it is other people not getting enough credit.

Take Cross Game,of course it's Adachi's original work that make it great but the anime staff made bold choice like adapting all of vol1 in 1 episode and showing the rest as flasbacks,I also enjoyed the anime original episodes centered around Aoba.

While yes it's tough knowing who does what and I agree that it's very much teamwork (hell even Okada in an interview said that she always considers herself part of a team and said her first goal was pleasing her team mates rather than the general audience) , however the problem I have with crediting studios as a whole is that it can work with people who tend to employ the same people all the time (so yes it works with david production) but doing that with studios such as A-1 is risky business.

I just tend to like following Director/Writers in pair,and they tend to change studios.

A great example of this Ohta/Aoshima pair they've worked on:
-Mininake 1st season at daume
-Mitsudomoe at Bridge
-Yuri Yuri at Dogakobo
-Kotoura san at AIC

As a whole I tend to think anime seems to be more director focused,I know Madhouse (and I figure now MAPPA) is director focused (the founder mentioned it at a Q&A) so for example Chihayafuru can change writers between seasons without it being a big deal or the HxH remake recently changed the writer in charge of the adaptation after 1 year.
Urobuchi mentioned that while he was the original creator of Phantom and writer for Blassreiter they both are the works of their respective directors.

And then sometimes you have the complete opposite where Ikoku Meiro no Croisée is referred to as a Junichi Sato project by the staff at Satelight when he was the writer in charge of the adaptation and not the director.

But to go back to Okada,she's said in interviews that she hands out more detailed scripts than a lot of anime writers,apparently it's expected of episode directors to polish the script but she does this herself so this could be a way for her to have more influence on a project than the average anime writer (though I really am just speculating)

Also,what adaptation does Okada get a lot of credit for apart from Toradora?It's not like the first animes that come to mind when you mention her name are Vampire Knight , Kodomo no Jikan or Venus to Mamoru.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

What? That doesn't make the slightest sense - a writer can create a perfectly good work that gets butchered when it gets adapted. And really by only crediting the original creator, you are disregarding everyone else's contribution.

How does that not make sense? If a bad work is somehow turned into a good work by the anime staff, then the anime staff should be credited first. If the opposite happens -an originally good work getting a bad adapation- then the anime staff should be blamed. If the anime adaptation is faithful to the original work, then the original author should be credited first and foremost. Sadly, there are a lot more bad adaptations than brilliant ones that transcend the original around.

And once again, I'm not saying we should credit only the original creators. That would be unfair. However, crediting the anime writer over the original writer is even more unfair imo, unless the writer made so much changes it can be considered a different work from the original.

Hopefully, that makes sense.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

If you feel the need to credit individuals, then you should learn more about what it is they actually do. It's not as if the writers is wholly responsible for the work on an original anime. For that matter, mangaka and novellists tend to rely quite a bit on their assistants and editors as well.

I think I have a decent grasp of what they do, but it's hard to know which of the director or writer has more influence on the adaptation. Totoum brought up some very good examples. Plus, it's not rare for several writers to work together. That doesn't make it easy to know who to credit exactly, since I assume each team works differently. Only interviews can help us (it helped a lot for Fractale and Hanasaku Iroha, to keep this Okada related), but we don't always have access to that kind of information.

Originally Posted by totoum

Also,what adaptation does Okada get a lot of credit for apart from Toradora?It's not like the first animes that come to mind when you mention her name are Vampire Knight , Kodomo no Jikan or Venus to Mamoru.

Toradora, Gosick, Hourou Musuko, Sketchbook. I guess it's not that much now that I think about it.

I suppose you guys are right. The main problem is that people are not getting enough credit. Okada is simply one of the lucky few to be famous and acclaimed.

Any idea how she managed to build herself such a reputation? Was it because of a particular work (True Tears, I would assume) or because she's highly prolific?

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Any idea how she managed to build herself such a reputation? Was it because of a particular work (True Tears, I would assume) or because she's highly prolific?

Well, here on Anime Suki, Pocari Sweat is part of the reason.


But really, I think it's for three reasons:

1. Okada does a lot of anime originals. True Tears, AnoHana, Hanasaku Iroha, Aquarion EVOL, and some others besides. With anime originals, the anime writer will obviously get credit for how strong the writing for the show is. With anime adaptations, it isn't always as clear who should get credit for the anime show having strong writing.

2. Okada just puts herself out there a lot. She has some incredibly open and candid interviews. Most other anime writers don't seem to put themselves out there like that (the only exceptions I can think of being Urobuchi and Yoshino).

3. Okada is prolific in her work. A lot of people have seen at least something that she's done. That means that there's more anime fans with stuff to say about her than there is for less prolific writers.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Toradora, Gosick, Hourou Musuko, Sketchbook. I guess it's not that much now that I think about it.

I'll give you the first three but Sketchbook really changes a few things compared to the manga, enough that while you can enjoy both they're different from each other.

TL;DR…

sketchbook adaptation

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Originally Posted by Kanon

Any idea how she managed to build herself such a reputation? Was it because of a particular work (True Tears, I would assume) or because she's highly prolific?

True Tears helped her in the industry , P.A works contacted her soon after to work with her again and going by what she said in the interview that's where she's got the most creative freedom,should make the upcoming Nagi no Asukara quite interesting to follow.
Then Kawamori noticed True Tears as well and asked her to be part of the Aquarion Evol staff.
And then Yamakan noticed True Tears too and asked her to be part of Fractale (though I really do wonder if they still get along, he wrote a huge rant on twitter against the Lupin III anime Okada was a part of)
She was contacted for Ano Hana soon after True Tears as well

The funny thing is that going by the interviews,true tears was a real team effort and yet she's the only staff member who's career really took off (then again director /writer Nishimura is a veteran who had already been around a while anyway)

As for popularity in the english speaking world,no idea about elsewhere but on animesuki Ano Hana and Hanasaku Hiroha were being discussed enough to get a subforum and they aired the same season.
Also this board has quite a Noitamina following and she was a part (for better or worse) of 4 NoitaminA animes in about a year.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

2. Okada just puts herself out there a lot. She has some incredibly open and candid interviews. Most other anime writers don't seem to put themselves out there like that (the only exceptions I can think of being Urobuchi and Yoshino).

I'm not sure that's really the case,I'm sure plenty of other writers give interviews,it's just that they're hardly ever translated.

[Guardian Enzo]

I would put the Seiji Kishi/Uezu Makoto team as another example of a writer/director pair who operate as a unit, no matter the studio.

As a general rule I support the notion that the bulk of credit for a successful anime based on a manga should go to the mangaka, but the oft-cited case of Hourou Musko is one case where I think the writer deserves a lot of credit. Don't get me wrong - I adore the manga and it's Hourou Musuko at its finest, but Okada was faced with a manga that was already almost 100 chapters and told to try and make something decipherable out of it in 11 episodes. She made some very difficult decisions (like cutting out the entire elementary-school section, 33 chapters) except in flashback, and in doing so incurred the wrath of manga readers. But the end result was a really superb anime that captured the essence of the manga very well.

As to why Okada is so much more infamous than most writers - who are generally anonymous for the most part to anime fans - I think it's a combination of factors. Yes, she's opinionated and a woman who expresses herself strongly in public is a relative rarity in Japan. She's also highly prolific, and she's been attached to a lot of beloved properties to which she's made drastic (often misguided) changes. In short, everything about her career is high-profile - intentional or not, she's an attention-grabber. Her series often sell well, and generally inspire strongly positive or negative reactions.