School Days - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll [END]

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by changeup

In the orginal game, that saw was in the platform of Makoto's home. I think in TV series it was in the same place.

was she carrying the saw with her before she entered makoto's house or It was in makoto's house from the start ( belonging to makoto ?) .

[denkikoiji]

i am happy that it kinda happoned like this but it would have bean beter if makoto dident die... and Kotonoha was with him ^_^ but yah Sekai was a lier...she deserved to die!!! i like
Kotonoha the most!!!

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Perishthethought

Just because something has occured within the real world it doesn't make the rendering of it in an anime somehow more legitimate. Foursomes occur in the real world, but the addition of it into the anime somehow doesn't make it seem somehow more realistic. Ask yourselves why they included such graphic violence, why they had such a comical scene at the end. They certainly did not make this anime to somehow explicate the depths of madness or provide some sort of insight into the human condition. They did it to shock, nothing more, nothing less. The fact that so many people are left with an inability to decide how they feel about this anime is testament to the fact that it has deliberately confused people by throwing curve balls every step of the way, and the murders are no different, just the biggest of the lot.

The did it for the lawlz thats why!
basically this is how the story went...if you have played the game you would know how many side routes there are and the way this series finished it could even look like the 4th GOOD END for the game and be made official
As for the interpretation of the ending it seem that everyone has a different take on the psychological aspect of things. While you may have laughed at the boat, i did think it was somewhat deeper than that. sure, the nice boat coincidence made me laugh but after watching again with the subs i notice how subtle the underlying tone of that scene was. Kotonoha is now free to "drift" away with her lover and that marks a significance in her mental state. I dont think that she is even concious anymore but rather just feeling fulfilled with holding onto someone she loves is the simplest form of happiness for her. I simply cant laugh at that scene anymore nor think that it is stupid...and all the time the back of my head keeps thinking "geez...give her a break already!?"

Regarding the desensitising effect - that's completely intended. People were baying for blood because they wanted to people to readjust their attitudes to the players in erogames who try and bang every available character - they're despised when rendered in anime form. The violence and bloody conclusion was purposely over the top to reflect such an attitude. This is what I mean about various signifiers throughout the series in order to detach yourself and enjoy the fallout - the foursome was the most graphic. They were all meant to push you over the edge - they were the aforementioned curveballs delivered after such an immaculate beginning with the type of character development typical of the harem genre.

Just take a look at how different and above all, typical the first few episodes are there. The fact that they pulled it off with such aplomb should tell you something about the contempt they have for such the genre.

But you almost make this sound like a bad thing

[Perishthethought]

I don't think the anime's stupid. I think it is relatively intelligent - far more intelligent than what it seemed to be in the first few episodes. I think it has a very acute awareness and understanding of the harem genre and because of that, takes liberties with it. If you read my comments in the overall series impression thread, you can see I acknowledge the 'adrift' imagery associated with Kotonoha's final scene. That's her punishment - permanent psychological isolation. Everybody is punished, to greater or lesser extents. My first post in this forum was about how I disliked each and every one of the characters and as a result, the anime made me feel dirty by watching their lunacy. Well, they got me. It was completely intended - we're encouraged to detach ourselves from the characters to watch them get excruciating retribution. They're not there to be sympathised with or attached to. Don't take it too seriously and come and join the rest of us in enjoying the moral bankruptcy and manipulation of the viewer. The water's lovely!

[coroloro]

I think there are different angles to look at the ending with. From a completely Western/American perspective I can see how many of the comments would be basically "Way to go, you deserved to die Mokoto you bastard!" However, I tend to disagree- and I think many people who have watched a huge variety of anime out there might see how the artist's intention was not just to portray Mokoto as an antihero we're all glad has died. Anime is notorious, from my experience, of denying the viewer of the satisfaction of being able to- as most American films might- be completely satisfied with a character's death, even if they have done awful things. I think that is one of Japanese cartoon's greatest virtues: in real life, people are whole beings. The concept of yin-yang is shown throughout anime- each 'dark' person has light in them, each 'light' person has dark in them.

The trio that the show centres around ALL make poor choices. Of course, depending on what we as the viewer bring to the plate- we might be more forgiving to certain characters. I think that Mokoto is a brilliantly designed character that shows a good young man who suddenly experiences the new world of sexuality and adulthood, of being sought after by not one, not two, but four (I think it's only four... I know some others jump in later) different girls. The way he handles this situation, and how it changes him, is a very realistic part of the anime.

I think many people from a Western mindset want to have a villain, someone we love to hate and love to see die. But you have to ask- when Mokoto dies, is he at his worst? Or has he begun to recover from his worst? I think the neat thing about anime is that even while they are trying to give shock value and be interesting, there is always depth and meaning to be found there. I bet we meet men every week who are good people, married with kids, who made mistakes as bad or worse than the Mokoto character did. We also meet women who have made worse mistakes than the female characters did (minus the bloody psycho-murders, I bet that is a little more rare). That does not render a person 'evil' for life, just like a person can have beautiful times (like we see earlier in the anime) and it does not render them 'good' for life.

I challenge a lot of people who want to see the characters, Mokoto or otherwise, in a black/white sense to look a second time. Also, I think they do an incredible job of showing how puberty affects and challenges young people. My nephew is about to turn 15, and is quite popular- he's a really great guy though. I'm going to send him this anime and let him take a watch, without telling him the end. *EVIL grin* Might help 'encourage' him to make good choices!

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Perishthethought

They're not there to be sympathised with or attached to. Don't take it too seriously and come and join the rest of us in enjoying the moral bankruptcy and manipulation of the viewer. The water's lovely!

whaaaaaa kotonoha chan!! *sniffs sniffs*

err well i think i was in the pool way before anyone else in that respect i have said from the beginning that this series is working as intended to show the screwup that will lead to a bigger consequence - like karma (what goes around comes around etc).
Never have i seen such a train wreck come to live and so vivdly screaming from miles off - Which is a nice change once in a while seen as a lot of crappy harem male leads *cough*rin*cough* never got their just desserts for screwing around. It is a payback series to those who have ever made a girl cry and here is hope that they all felt it from the different dimension as ripples of destruction are vibrated from this series

Originally Posted by coroloro

I think many people from a Western mindset want to have a villain, someone we love to hate and love to see die. But you have to ask- when Mokoto dies, is he at his worst? Or has he begun to recover from his worst? I think the neat thing about anime is that even while they are trying to give shock value and be interesting, there is always depth and meaning to be found there. I bet we meet men every week who are good people, married with kids, who made mistakes as bad or worse than the Mokoto character did. We also meet women who have made worse mistakes than the female characters did (minus the bloody psycho-murders, I bet that is a little more rare). That does not render a person 'evil' for life, just like a person can have beautiful times (like we see earlier in the anime) and it does not render them 'good' for life.

You never know with makoto as he tends to come up with surprises for sinking to a whole new level

While he didnt seem to be the worse in the end do you really think that he deserved a happy life? Looking at the guy's actions he is just a pile of crap who cant be helped anymore. Even after those screw ups he never learns his lesson so i guess death would be the perfect way to end it.

Sure he may mature later on but considering what he has done so far what about the lives of the girls he has left behind? Noticeably if he did leave sekai then what would come of her? rather than killing makoto i can jsut see sekai commiting suicide so does mean that makoto can live a life guilt free? bleh knowing him he probably wont even care.

same thing if it were to happen to kotonoha. If she gets dumped later on after makoto becomes bored having sex with the same woman then what will she do? go back into breaking down while makoto is yet again free to roam the streets and to go after another girl?

Makoto has shown no progress of maturing any time soon and even if he did love kotonoha in the end, the way he left sekai to figure things out for herself is just dam right despicable - TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY DAMMIT!

while makoto may not be EVIL, being so dam insensitive and clueless is an equally weighted crime -

[Dop]

Good lord, that was like an explosion in an octopus factory.

I'd been waiting several episodes for Kotonoha to stop being The Amazing Human Doormat , but not quite like this. The only other thing she could have done was blow up the school with everyone in it.
Still. Nice boat.

[fdsafdsa]

I never played the game. What's the big deal about the boat?

[Solafighter]

I have never seen such an ending of an anime. I have no idea, to rate this. Im kinda shocked of this ending.. What an ending....

[Tasdern]

Does anyone else suspect that Kotonoha knew so much about the doctor is because she was pregnant and required the procedure? And during the scene where Kotonoha forgives Makoto, she says she won’t be led astray again. She admitted that she also was unfaithful.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by coroloro

I think there are different angles to look at the ending with. From a completely Western/American perspective I can see how many of the comments would be basically "Way to go, you deserved to die Mokoto you bastard!" However, I tend to disagree- and I think many people who have watched a huge variety of anime out there might see how the artist's intention was not just to portray Mokoto as an antihero we're all glad has died. Anime is notorious, from my experience, of denying the viewer of the satisfaction of being able to- as most American films might- be completely satisfied with a character's death, even if they have done awful things. I think that is one of Japanese cartoon's greatest virtues: in real life, people are whole beings. The concept of yin-yang is shown throughout anime- each 'dark' person has light in them, each 'light' person has dark in them.

The trio that the show centres around ALL make poor choices. Of course, depending on what we as the viewer bring to the plate- we might be more forgiving to certain characters. I think that Mokoto is a brilliantly designed character that shows a good young man who suddenly experiences the new world of sexuality and adulthood, of being sought after by not one, not two, but four (I think it's only four... I know some others jump in later) different girls. The way he handles this situation, and how it changes him, is a very realistic part of the anime.

I think many people from a Western mindset want to have a villain, someone we love to hate and love to see die. But you have to ask- when Mokoto dies, is he at his worst? Or has he begun to recover from his worst? I think the neat thing about anime is that even while they are trying to give shock value and be interesting, there is always depth and meaning to be found there. I bet we meet men every week who are good people, married with kids, who made mistakes as bad or worse than the Mokoto character did. We also meet women who have made worse mistakes than the female characters did (minus the bloody psycho-murders, I bet that is a little more rare). That does not render a person 'evil' for life, just like a person can have beautiful times (like we see earlier in the anime) and it does not render them 'good' for life.

I challenge a lot of people who want to see the characters, Mokoto or otherwise, in a black/white sense to look a second time. Also, I think they do an incredible job of showing how puberty affects and challenges young people. My nephew is about to turn 15, and is quite popular- he's a really great guy though. I'm going to send him this anime and let him take a watch, without telling him the end. *EVIL grin* Might help 'encourage' him to make good choices!

Had to reply to this post very well written and very well thought out. I too thought outside the single minded idea that killing Makoto was the best thing. By killing him you have denied the ability to try to change or understand why his action have bought about so much unhappiness.

One of the saddest things in the world is when you truly understand how much you have hurt someone and you honestly feel remorse. A quality that Makoto lacked up untill he was being turned into a pin cushion, and even that can be debated, hell i would have remorse about a lot of shit if i was being stabbed too. Did he deserve to be punished absloutly did he deserve to die no. Makoto was an anti hero in some ways he was real and some ways he was very outrages.

I feel when you kill a person in the way the killed Makoto. People will get the idea that he was evil honestly no he was not evil a selfish bastard yes but not evil. West/East in terms of heros and villians clash on multiple levels because of cultral differences. AMericans tend to see a villian as a villian only and hero as a hero period and he hero must win and live at the end. In the east its not so cut and dry or black and white so many differnt scanarios can be formed formed by having a huge gray area. Hence our Anti-hero in School Days who was not really evil or a villian he was just human who made many mistakes, that makes it all the more tragic

Circumstances in life do not always break down to black and white and i wish more people could see it that way. Anyways i found your post to be one of the best iv read so far. Kudos to you my friend.

I cant believe my 2000th post was wasted on SD

[Julius Firefocht]

See, I was looking for blood in this season. I expected blood in Nanoha StrikerS, but that did not deliver as well as I thought it should. Where did I get my fix from? A damned harem anime of all places.

We have waited 13 weeks for this. The rivers shall flow with the blood of Makoto!

Ok, I was half-joking. Sekai's slaying of that slug was immensely satisfying, but I found myself much more impressed by Kotonoha's killing and subsequent disembowelment of Sekai. I am surprised that Kotonoha can fight and move so quickly, especially considering the additional "bulk" she has compared to Sekai. Opening Sekai up to check for her baby was a nice touch, and it is definitely something that will not be forgotten in animedom anytime soon.

Either way, the adulterous couple is dead, and my favourite character Kotonoha claims the final victory. A fine ending indeed!

By the way, whoever thought up of the "Nice Boat" meme ought to go for psychic tests. That was some accurate prediction right there.

[Sakuyakun]

Love the ending. A fitting end ..But the rapist got away, I wish he died too.

[sniperz]

epic rules~

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Perishthethought

They're giving you every opportunity to detach yourself from procedings in order to understand the intention of the writers - that what you are watching is not some sort of meaningful character-driven piece of straight-faced drama but a mockery of the genre, an exercise in throwing together an unlikeable set of scumbags and letting them all murder each other. It's nothing more than a catharsis for everyone who has always held the harem genre in the lowest regard.

Originally Posted by Perishthethought

The fact that they pulled it off with such aplomb should tell you something about the contempt they have for such the genre.

Just wanted to say that I think you absolutely hit the nail on the head. In that sense, it probably accurately conveyed the game's own sense as well -- after all, this wasn't just the game with the "bad endings", it was the one where the most silly of innocuous choices could lead to totally unexpected, off-the-wall consequences. You sort of get the sense that the directors/writers were saying to themselves "this is so stupid" and let that realization drive the storytelling. And, as you so poignantly put it, it absolutely does provide comfort and validation to people who already consider the genre lowly, "turn-off-your-brain" entertainment. I can "hardly wait" to hear the cries of "needs more School Days" [edit: should I say "Needs more Nice Boat"] for every bishoujo game adaptation being released over the next few years.

[Perishthethought]

Regarding the moral implications of the series, why would you assume that because the protagonist demonstrates some paper-thin remorse in his death throes, it means the series is a delicate and thought-provoking examination of guilt, evil and the struggle of maintaining high moral standing in a tumultuous cauldren of sexual desire? That it highlights this distinction between Eastern and (mainstream) Western mindsets of villains? Any intelligent person recognises that there are rarely unequivocally rights or wrongs in the world, Eastern or Western - what Makoto did throughout this anime, by anyone's standards, was distasteful and what most people the WORLD OVER would determine to be wrong. That he eventually demonstrated some remorse is not a grand statement on the human condition - the fact that he did so was to generate more dramaticism about the subject of his death - otherwise it would just be a meaningless slaying. It would be completely devoid of controversy. They HAD to make him more sympathetic in the final stages of the anime for anyone to give a shit about his death. It is not as though it was simply evil guy dies - goodnight kids. You can find opposites of that model in Western literature outside of the mainstream, and have been able to do so since before the birth of christ. It was very close, though. It's just another little trick.

Killing Makoto defined this anime. It was the best thing for the anime. It would be meaningless outside of it. Without Makoto's death, you wouldn't even have the questionable question of whether or he deserved it - you wouldn't have anything. It would simply be the story of a moron who knocked up a girl, banged every girl he could, with a consequence-free rape and a fair dose of other, similarly ill-judged phenomenon, saw the light at the end and lived happily ever after. What is that, exactly, from the point of view of providing us with some kind of deeper understanding? How would that have highlighted the 'shades of gray' in humanity's existence? Makoto's death places everything else in context. Try to imagine the series without Makoto's death now - just what would it be? Directionless and unbelievable. At the very least we got a suitably ridiculous ending to complete the comprehensive genre abuse. The pointlessness of his death, and the pointlessness of all the other ridiculous malarky that went on in this series IS the point, as relentlessflame has highlighted. What are the moral implications of sheer pointlessness? Relax and enjoy the self-depreciating stupidity!

[Iorek]

I gave it a 10. Would I have preferred a happier ending? Probably; but I still think it was very well done. I'm glad they didn't half-ass it and do a mediocre kill scene... I thought it was just right. It's rare that you see something go from happy-go-lucky to violent and depressing, and that's a breath of fresh air for me.

By the way (and I'm not sure if this has been mentioned), the SD12 that was shown on AT-X was heavily edited from the original. In addition to red blood instead of black, there were no flashbacks during Sekai's stabbing of Makoto... it was just pure stabbing. It also showed Makoto's head in Kotonoha's bag. Finally, there were some gruesome sounds that accompanied the "baby confirmation" scene. I guess you could hear Kotonoha cutting Sekai up. Knowing that I think that the unedited version is over-the-top and am glad they didn't show it.

[Rembr]

Originally Posted by Iorek

By the way (and I'm not sure if this has been mentioned), the SD12 that was shown on AT-X was heavily edited from the original. In addition to red blood instead of black, there were no flashbacks during Sekai's stabbing of Makoto... it was just pure stabbing. It also showed Makoto's head in Kotonoha's bag. Finally, there were some gruesome sounds that accompanied the "baby confirmation" scene. I guess you could hear Kotonoha cutting Sekai up. Knowing that I think that the unedited version is over-the-top and am glad they didn't show it.

Repost:

http://www.akibablog.net/archives/20...hool_days.html

なお、カジ速さんが紹介されているスクールデイズ最終話がヤバすぎる件についてでは、『試写会は色々グロい 。血は一部ピンク。嘔吐する奴いる。nice boadENDに立ち上がって拍手』・『腹開けたシーンはピンクでした』などを赤文字で紹介されているけど 、この書き込みはウソ。試写会でも血の表現は『黒』だったし、『腹開けたシーン』も黒、バックの中の誠の顔 が見えたりはしなかった。また１回目の試写会では、『嘔吐していた人』は気がつかず、『nic e boadENDに立ち上がって拍手』も無かった。

Although it doesn't go into much detail, it touches on the fact that the screening version of the final episode wasn't different from the aired version. For those of you who were curious about all the hearsay about the "unedited" versions. Well, this is still sort of hearsay too, so take it however you like.

Edited content post-axeincident was probably just the blood color, nothing else.

[changeup]

As for the game, I have to add that many times even the player cannot control what is going on. One famous example: if you always choose the option that favors Kotonoha from the very beginning, Makoto will come out of nowhere and claim he loves someone else in the 4th or 5th scene... and many people (reasonable people looking for a good ending) got the "bloody conclusion ending" with their choice. This game is seriuosly a mockery of the harem genre which becomes so widespread that people actually do not question it any more. I would say the TV series has been a little bit overkill but still get the points crossed.

[Iorek]

Originally Posted by Rembr

Repost:

http://www.akibablog.net/archives/20...hool_days.html

なお、カジ速さんが紹介されているスクールデイズ最終話がヤバすぎる件についてでは、『試写会は色々グロい 。血は一部ピンク。嘔吐する奴いる。nice boadENDに立ち上がって拍手』・『腹開けたシーンはピンクでした』などを赤文字で紹介されているけど 、この書き込みはウソ。試写会でも血の表現は『黒』だったし、『腹開けたシーン』も黒、バックの中の誠の顔 が見えたりはしなかった。また１回目の試写会では、『嘔吐していた人』は気がつかず、『nic e boadENDに立ち上がって拍手』も無かった。

Although it doesn't go into much detail, it touches on the fact that the screening version of the final episode wasn't different from the aired version. For those of you who were curious about all the hearsay about the "unedited" versions. Well, this is still sort of hearsay too, so take it however you like.

Edited content post-axeincident was probably just the blood color, nothing else.

Thanks for the info. I'm glad there wasn't a super-violent version.