Shakugan no Shana III - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[Triple_R]

Well, if the way Yuji treats his girlfriend is by beating her into unconsciousness and dragging her home with him, maybe Kazumi is better off with someone else anyway...

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

I know of a certain glasses guy that wouldn't mind so it's not that bad...

Exactly. Ike deserves to be with her far more than Yuji does, for sure.

[alvinkhorfire]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

The most important thing though is that he did what he should have done seasons ago and told Kazumi off.

Well, I believe there are reasons for that.

Spoiler for Possible Answer From Novel Summary:

I believe that Yuji actually loves Shana quite a long ago, but he did not realize it. Notable examples can be found in Season 1 and Season 2, one of them being Yuji looking back only at Shana, instead of Kazumi during culture festival parade (Anime Season 2 Episode 12). Back then, he was not confident enough to declare that he loves only Shana. In other words, he was indecisive and just could not reject Kazumi's love.

The merging of him with Snake of Festival creates an distinct air of confidence and power surrounding him. Now, Yuji has the necessary confidence and bravery to choose between Shana and Kazumi, and he rightfully chooses Shana, not without rough beating. Of course, excessive confidence causes him to be arrogant, hence the blatant rejection of Kazumi at the end of Episode 4.

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

It did amuse me with how screwed the Misaki City crew was without Yuji. He has the one weapon you don't dare block or parry, the ring that makes one invulnerable to flame (and thus immune to just about every Flame Haze), he knew where their mission control was kept, knew the strengths and weaknesses of all three Flame Hazes present... and he was also their ace in the hole against powerful Tomogara in the first place, and now they had to fight against that ability...

Yes, Yuji is the strategist behind the Misaki City crew, throughout Season 1 and Season 2. His idea is influential in aiding Flame Hazes' victory in Misaki City, most notably during Sabrac's attack. With Yuji joining the other side, Flame Hazes in Misaki City just have to charge their tactics. Well, it really makes the subsequent episodes more exciting.

Originally Posted by Senshigeia

alvinkhorfire: Got it.

Sure, no problem.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Man, you guys are cold when it comes to Kazumi.

Not much of a surprise, of course. Yoshida has never been the most popular Shana character, to say the least... back in the thread for the original series, pretty much everyone rallied against Yoshida during the festival episodes for making Shana cry, even though Shana was the one being a bitch there. This is a predictable enough response after six years of hate. (Personally, I did enjoy the cruel rejection despite liking Yoshida since I also like angst.)

Very good episode, though. I liked the more dramatic take on the triple urusai, with Shana sounding genuinely serious and angry this time rather than the usual whiny frustration.

[Shinn Kamiyra]

An excellent episode, truly. A splendid mix of action, pain, and a most welcome end to the annoying love triangle that's been dogging us for so many years now.

Yuji has officially taken the step from above average to total badass. Handling three Flame Haze and come out of it without so much as a scratch - even if Shana wasn't fighting with full strength, she'll have to to kick it up a few notches if she even wants to stand a chance in a serious fight.

That aside, I have to sympathize with Yuji's resolve. While indeed having to do things that would bring pain to those close to him, it's all for the sake of his ultimate goal, one that certainly won't come without a lot of sacrifice on his part. You've gotta respect him for that.

Save a mere ranking, I'll just say this episode certainly lived up to every expectation I had for it. My congrats to JC for not screwing this one up. Please keep it going.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by alvinkhorfire

Well, I believe there are reasons for that.

Yea I kinda deducted that increase in confidence came through this. It's still just as enjoyable though.

[Rising Dragon]

Yeah I understand all the hate and I'm well aware that Kazumi's the less liked and why that is, but I don't really invest into that kind of thinking now--it's just a hassle.

And even though it's over, Kazumi will still like Yuji even for a while, and I'm sure she'll still have a role in the later story, so we're not done with her yet.

[weaponX]

I haven't seen ep. 4 yet, but at this point, everyone is raving over it just because of that one thing that happened. You know exactly what I'm talking about.

So I'm not going to comment on the episode because I haven;t seen it, but I will comment on that one action.

Kazumi is a bit hard for me to judge. She gets a lot of flak just because she likes Yuji (lord knows why) when Shana also likes Yuji at the same time. And because Shana is the main character and kicks a fair amount of ass, obviously everyone knows she will be the eventual winner, and wants her to win as well.

As such, Kazumi gets a lot of hate simply because she is after Yuji, and everyone simply wants Yuji and Shana to get it over with and declare their love for each other so everyone can move on to more important things, namely, the ass kickings.

The thing is, well Kazumi is fairly pointless to the show. If you subtract her from the show, nothing will be lost. It is probably this pointlessness mixed with the endless dragging of this love square (remember Ike?) that everyone hates Kazumi because everyone wants this to move on and go back to the main plot and kicking ass and so forth.

But as far as hate goes, Kazumi is not that bad of a character. She is fairly inoffensive, cooks, and has a fair amount of courage for someone who is generally powerless and thrown into a war between powerful demons and warriors. I could name 10 characters right now that probably don't get as much hate as Kazumi, but who are much worse characters. In this sense, she could be likened to (a much much weaker version) of say Lebron James, whose biggest hits come froma few ill-timed statements, and the fact that he switched teams when other more popular players have been accused and convicted of worse things from drug use, possession and use of firearms, and attempted rape.

That being said, I'm glad Yuji finally decided to be a not be a complete blockhead anymore and make up his mind, but just remember, as far as characters go, you could do a LOT worse than Kazumi.

[Triple_R]

A comparison between Kazumi and Lebron James (two such vastly different personalities, lol), and it actually makes sense!

I applaud you, weaponX!

[alvinkhorfire]

Originally Posted by weaponX

she likes Yuji (lord knows why)

I could be wrong. Still, I feel the love she has for Yuji began when Yuji stood up for her in front of coach, as she fell down to catch her breath. It was the time every student in Yuji's class was running around the track (Anime Season 1 Episode 4). The sense of admiration became love, I suppose.

Originally Posted by weaponX

The thing is, well Kazumi is fairly pointless to the show. If you subtract her from the show, nothing will be lost.

I respect your opinion on that, and here is mine. If that is the case, Shana would take Yuji for granted. She would feel that Yuji is always by her side, even though she does nothing to impress him.

Even since Kazumi declared her love for Yuji (Anime Season 1 Episode 12), Shana started to appreciate Yuji more and stepped up the game, such as offering her most beloved melon pan to Yuji. I mean that if Kazumi does not exist at all, up to now, we probably would not hear Shana declaring her love to Yuji. My point is that everyone has a role to play, and Kazumi is no exception.

Edit: Game8910's comment is more insightful than mine.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by alvinkhorfire

I could be wrong. Still, I feel the love she has for Yuji began when Yuji stood up for her in front of coach, as she fell down to catch her breath. It was the time every student in Yuji's class was running around the track (Anime Season 1 Episode 4). The sense of admiration became love, I suppose.

I think his "Lord knows why" remark was about the flak Kazumi gets for liking Yuji, not why she likes Yuji in the first place.

[weaponX]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

A comparison between Kazumi and Lebron James (two such vastly different personalities, lol), and it actually makes sense!

I applaud you, weaponX!

Thank you!

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

I think his "Lord knows why" remark was about the flak Kazumi gets for liking Yuji, not why she likes Yuji in the first place.

A little bit of both. It's not so much a hit against Kazumi as it is on Yuji as besides his excellent reasoning abilities in battle, hes kinda dull and obviously a huge knucklehead when it comes to women.

[Game8910]

Originally Posted by weaponX

Kazumi is a bit hard for me to judge. She gets a lot of flak just because she likes Yuji (lord knows why) when Shana also likes Yuji at the same time. And because Shana is the main character and kicks a fair amount of ass, obviously everyone knows she will be the eventual winner, and wants her to win as well.

As such, Kazumi gets a lot of hate simply because she is after Yuji, and everyone simply wants Yuji and Shana to get it over with and declare their love for each other so everyone can move on to more important things, namely, the ass kickings.

Its undeniable that there are a lot of people that hate her just for that, shippers gonna ship even if its made obvious who will win from the get go.

Originally Posted by weaponX

The thing is, well Kazumi is fairly pointless to the show. If you subtract her from the show, nothing will be lost. It is probably this pointlessness mixed with the endless dragging of this love square (remember Ike?) that everyone hates Kazumi because everyone wants this to move on and go back to the main plot and kicking ass and so forth.

Thats not really true, I may hate Yoshida but her whole purpose on the series was to be the trigger that forces Shana to recognize her own feelings and further develop her character. She first becomes her love rival, but later becomes her friend, two things she really didnt have before in her life. Its just that she kinda didnt leave after her role was already over.
I mean sure, without her Shana would have EVENTUALLY figured all out herself but unfortunately Shana isnt a 50 episode series

Originally Posted by weaponX

But as far as hate goes, Kazumi is not that bad of a character. She is fairly inoffensive, cooks, and has a fair amount of courage for someone who is generally powerless and thrown into a war between powerful demons and warriors. I could name 10 characters right now that probably don't get as much hate as Kazumi, but who are much worse characters.

The reason why I dislike her so much (and im sure many others) was because from the early point in the series it was already so painfully obvious that she was not going to be able to follow Yuji into the world he now was a part of (flame hazes, denizens, etc..). Even if she received an item that would allow her to move inside the fuzetsus and other things, in the end she was just a regular human girl and any kind of ending with Yuji who was now pretty much an eternal being was impossible. Yet, she kept trying and trying to get close to him and causing much uncessesary drama along the way. I dont hate her resolve or personality (and to be honest, I LOVE her character design), I just hate her choice in actions.

Originally Posted by weaponX

That being said, I'm glad Yuji finally decided to be a complete blockhead and make up his mind, but just remember, as far as characters go, you could do a LOT worse than Kazumi.

Minase Yuka from 11Eyes comes to mind.

[Archon_Wing]

Comparing Kazumi to Lebron James is kinda cruel, even for me.

[weaponX]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Comparing Kazumi to Lebron James is kinda cruel, even for me.

Did I really go over the line with that one? It can't be as hateful as when I compared Yuina from Hanasaku to Paris Hilton, is it?

[speedyexpress48]

Originally Posted by weaponX

Did I really go over the line with that one? It can't be as hateful as when I compared Yuina from Hanasaku to Paris Hilton, is it?

Well, your comparison was pretty good but it might be really cruel for some of the more hardcore fans

[crossfire92]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Having been in a real-life love triangle--twice--I can sympathize with how long it took for Yuji to make the choice; it's actually extremely difficult. That said, didn't it take just as long in the novels?

It did amuse me with how screwed the Misaki City crew was without Yuji. He has the one weapon you don't dare block or parry, the ring that makes one invulnerable to flame (and thus immune to just about every Flame Haze), he knew where their mission control was kept, knew the strengths and weaknesses of all three Flame Hazes present... and he was also their ace in the hole against powerful Tomogara in the first place, and now they had to fight against that ability...

Oh my gosh I know! I laughed so hard when shana said "yuji would always come up with something for these critical moments"


Is yuji so much stronger than shana because when he merged with the snake of the festival he gained the combined reflexes and fighting knowledge of the snake of the festival and himself? Not to mention yuji was pretty darn awesome before he gained all that extra power. His skill at sensing and ability to determine weaknesses and over enemies strengths were top notch. Also, from the first season much of shana's strength she gained corresponded with being with yuji. I wonder if she was always that way and gained significant strength from being with yuji. This isn't to say shana isn't strong on her own, however its not like any of the flame hazes could take out that assassin from season 2 alone. Not to mention shana's sudden weakness due to conflicting emotions that someone mentioned earlier. In this fight shana was at the weakest she probably had been since that very first fight with margery.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Just out of curiosity where are we in regards to the novel?

This is episode 4 but the season is 24 episodes right? Is it moving too fast?

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Well, if the way Yuji treats his girlfriend is by beating her into unconsciousness and dragging her home with him, maybe Kazumi is better off with someone else anyway...

Well it's what cavemen used to do thousands of years ago

Sometimes the old ways are still the best.......

[Chris38]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Just out of curiosity where are we in regards to the novel?

This is episode 4 but the season is 24 episodes right? Is it moving too fast?

Based upon what I read from the novel summaries, the anime is at the end of volume 16, so for now we are moving pretty slowly, but it's pretty understandable considering the fact that JC stuff needed to fix the mistakes they made in the previous seasons.

Regarding the episode, well since I have been reading novel spoilers, the revelation that Yuji has merged with the SnF wasn't so surprising for me, but I still enjoyed how accurately they portrayed the whole Yuji - Shana confrontation.

I really hope that they will keep up the good work for the rest of the series.

[Excorsism]

Obviously out of context but I found it a bit amusing in the preview when it showed a scene with Yuuji and Shana together like nothing happened. lol

She looks adorable as hell though.