Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[Archon_Wing]

Wikipedia even has the remaining episode titles.

[Tjaard]

Hmm, i don't know what say for this epi, surely the significant parts were all here, so the story goes on pretty good, but the comedy and breaking mood part have all been cut and yeah, i wanted see them but, oh well.
The part where George was fighting with Gaap was awesome., Jessica against Ronove was good as well, but surely not comparing to George/Gaap, probably cause Ronove was only on defence mode
First half was full of clues but a little boring, the second part was only a fighting part but very exciting, so a pretty good epi for me

[Arbane the Terrible]

Originally Posted by Tjaard

The part where George was fighting with Gaap was awesome., Jessica against Ronove was good as well, but surely not comparing to George/Gaap, probably cause Ronove was only on defence mode

Probably irrelevant observation: Both George and Jessica are in love with someone who has the same sort of "powers" they do--both Jessica and kanon have offensive powers, both George and Shannon are defensive.

[Chadauw]

Well, even if it seems like a barrier, George's power aren't really defensive.

It makes his attacks stronger proportionally to the attacks of the assailant.

Also, I give this episode a 7.

[Shamisen]

Right, right. I simply forgot.

[Alair]

Ah... the fighting episode.

Well, honestly, I thought this part in the book was bloody silly and seeing it animated doesn't change my opinion of it any.

On the more relevant note we know that "Beatrice", whoever she actually is, sent out large payoffs to Nanjo and Kumasawa's next of kin along with Ange and possibly some additional beneficiaries we don't know of. This is in addition to writing the journals-in-a-bottle of the first two games and her entries into Maria's grimoire.

Though seeing that it had Rudolph's name on it I really can't help but wonder if it might tie into his weird "I think I'm going to die soon" talk from the first game...

[Kaiba]

Originally Posted by June 1983

Klash gave a pretty good explanation of the significance of this episode a few posts above, but ...

1) Ange found out that SOMEONE -- most likely the culprit or someone who was either in league with the culprit or at least aware of them -- sent out letters to relatives of those who were going to die on Rokkenjima the day before the meeting.

2) More specifically, the person did it in such a way that the letters would reach them some time after the murders -- because the intended recipients (Nanjo's son, etc) were listed as the senders and their relation on the island was listed as the recipient at an undeliverable address.

3) A very, very important note is that this person seemed to be aware of the fact that Ange was not going to be at Rokkenjima for the meeting, since she herself received one of these letters (I don't think the anime mentioned this aspect of that incident, but in this case the letter's "intended recipient" was Rudolf). This is interesting because no one knew Ange would not be attending until the very last minute, ie, after the letters seem to have been sent out.

4) This person has a playful personality and enjoys an element of "risk" (which Kinzo and Beatrice say is the core of "magic").

5) Their handwriting matches the handwriting of "Beatrice" in Maria's diary and in the bottle-letters from "Ushiromiya Maria".

6) The letters contain keys to high security bankvaults, and the code to the bankvaults is the mysterious string of numbers that was written on the door to the parlor in EP 3 (found when George and Shannon's bodies were discovered). In other words, the individual who knew the code to the bankvault, who may then be the person who sent out the letters, was on the island at the time of the murders.

7) On another note, Ange's trip revealed that Kumasawa was seriously attempting to solve the epitaph -- something we were not aware of.

8) Furthermore, it looks like she knew more about goings-on on the island and may have gotten pretty far in solving the epitaph. The photograph we saw was probably only a part of her research into the riddle, because her son said that there were more papers related to it which were split up among his siblings.

On the 1986 side of things, we learned that

1) George seems to have a more forceful and potentially dangerous aspect to his personality than we may have thought.

2) George and Jessica are both engaged in fights for their lives (regardless of whether or not demons are involved).

3) Kumasawa and Gohda have been locked in a self-imposed closed-room scenario, and this perhaps may give us a clue about other closed-room scenarios that we've seen before.

Are you still going to say that this episode didn't contribute much to the anime?

You even forgot that the anime showed something that even the VN didn't, namely what was Ange looking at that surprised her so much? While most VN people suspected that thing was what Ange saw, but the anime pretty much confirms it.

[June 1983]

Er ... I figured that was pretty obvious. Plus, we all discussed it several pages back.

I think it also has less to do with the mystery, and more to do with the meaning of magic, personally.

[Workworkwork]

Originally Posted by Kaiba

You even forgot that the anime showed something that even the VN didn't, namely what was Ange looking at that surprised her so much? While most VN people suspected that thing was what Ange saw, but the anime pretty much confirms it.

It makes something that was alluded to in the SN a little clearer, and suddenly it's the best adaptation ever?

[~Ayane~]

Originally Posted by Workworkwork

It makes something that was alluded to in the SN a little clearer, and suddenly it's the best adaptation ever?

and who said so?

too much umineko anime hate....

[maximilianjenus]

it's workwork.

anmotehr thing that was implied but not commented in this topic is kanon and shannon hinting at having memories of this happening before, rika style.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Workworkwork

It makes something that was alluded to in the SN a little clearer, and suddenly it's the best adaptation ever?

No one is saying that, but the imagery of actually seeing what Ange was looking at DOES help a bit

[~Ayane~]

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

it's workwork.

anmotehr thing that was implied but not commented in this topic is kanon and shannon hinting at having memories of this happening before, rika style.

yeah, it caught my attention too, but it was only Shannon who supposedly remembered, right?

[Chishio no Hana]

no, in the VN Kanon also says that last time he was tricked, and that he was an idiot

[~Ayane~]

oh, right, so theres two of them, i wonder if they are the only special ones, or some other characters remembers as well (maybe genji?)

[Chishio no Hana]

I think Genji would remember them as well. But there isn't a way to confirm this.

[-Sho-]

Omg , the fighting's part ! Go Power up lol
Well , we didn't know more about Battler and Maria tests huh .
3 episodes to go ? Wonder how they'll end this anime .. i didn't enjoy the latest episodes , and though the story will be better . Oh well ...

[KanonTheFurniture]

The Magnificent Furniture Trio (that would be a cool name for a band...) seem to all have a heavier connection to magic than the rest of the characters. Genji's style is just to be the silent and dutiful butler, so we don't really know too much about him, but I think it's possible that he has his own secrets that we're unaware of. Especially with his supposed connection to Ronove. There's also a bit in the extra TIPs Notes From A Certain Cook (this particular entry has no spoilers, but be warned that the rest of the page might) that implies he knows some stuff.

I've got to wonder, though. If Ronove is connected to Genji, Vigilia to Kumasawa (who isn't really furniture, is she?), and a lot of people speculate Gaap is to Shannon...then who is Kanon's counterpart? RedEyes/Zombie Kanon? :P Of course it could always be a character who hasn't been introduced yet, or it could also be more fodder for the Shannon = Kanon fans...

[~Ayane~]

i dont like this whole connecting thing, and also Virgilia isnt a furniture...

[KanonTheFurniture]

Well I said that in my post; I was just using her as another example of a human 'connected' to a magical being.

I'm personally not a fan of it either, but the connections obviously have some meaning. When Ronove introduces himself to Jessica she even comments on the similarity to Genji's last name. At the very least, Ronove and Genji share a connection, as do Kumasawa and Virgilia, and you could see that as being anti-fantasy or anti-mystery (for anti-fantasy, you could say that Genji didn't really die at the first twilight, and he's the one who confronted Jessica in her room). I don't like the popular Gaap/Shannon opinion myself, but I thought I'd mention it nonetheless because it's popular.