Mobile Suit Gundam AGE - Episode 08 Discussion

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Urei

It was able to kill them easily BECAUSE it's fighting them in favorable conditions... which is an exceedingly obvious plot setting. Still, I would love to see it Hulk-jump at a range that exceeds the UA long range firing ability.

Didn't I already addressed this? Those automatic guns that the Gafran and Baqto use are short-to-medium range. They can try shooting at long range but they aren't going to hit a moving target.

Also, I think you are forgetting the fact that enemies have this amazing ability to cluster on 1 target to cause severe damage... let's see, for example while flying out of it's reach? Then again, it's Gundam AGE and the cool factor is more important then logic / situational combat on battlefield that previous series spoiled us with.

How, when, what? Not sure where you are pulling this from, but I'll believe it when the show actually shows it.

Seriously, at this point I think you are just grasping at straws to prove your logic that the show is illogical.

[bio9205]

Okay, 3 things I have to say:

Firstly, the G-Exes is totally kickass. Screw the Titus.

Secondly, it would be totally facepalm if it turned out the UE and Feddie suits were actually manufactured at the same MS workshop. I was quite surprised to see the Zedas there, displayed right next to the Genoace Custom even.

Thirdly, the events of this episode made me realize that the previous episode was totally insignificant, unnecessary even. Makes me gripe about episode 7 even more, but oh well. The tension builds, maybe we'll discover the secret of the UE the next episode.

[Urei]

From my point of veiw you are forcibly trying to contradict an obvious plot setting of this show. I don't know about you but if it were me I'd never fight a high mobility flying unit in a ground unit. Other Gundam series proved this idea to be pretty much stupid. MSG did this, Zeta did this, ZZ did this, 0083 did this, 00 did this, even Seed did this.

Also, I'd love for you to show me a way to fight with Titus against an aerial unit and manage to win in a situation where logic is applied. Are you going to jump at it with Arm Rings? Are you going to kick it / punch it, tackle it in mid air? Does Flint have enough skills to even hit a high mobility unit that can basicaly dodge your jump-attack in a moments instant? All you can do is stand and watch how your armor is peeled-off period

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Urei

From my point of veiw you are forcibly trying to contradict an obvious plot setting of this show. I don't know about you but if it were me I'd never fight a high mobility flying unit in a ground unit. Other Gundam series proved this idea to be pretty much stupid. MSG did this, Zeta did this, ZZ did this, 0083 did this, 00 did this, even Seed did this.

Also, I'd love for you to show me a way to fight with Titus against an aerial unit and manage to win in a situation where logic is applied.

What? Fighting a high mobility flying unit with a ground unit is all they COULD do. None of the non-UE suits can fly right now. And that isn't even what you said a few posts before. Besides, the Titus isn't exactly immobile. The AGE system is not telling Flit to fight a DINN with a ZuOOT, if you get my drift.

Gafrans aren't exactly that that highly mobile either. They are the Zakus of the UE, grunt suits with grunt specs. The AGE-Normal was able to take those down with basic levels of mobility. The Zedas is what you are thinking of, and that fight will probably happen and that is when we will probably see the Spallow. Right now, as I said, they have yet to gather enough battle data for the Zedas for anything like that to come out yet.

As to your claims about MSG/Zeta/ZZ/0083, I can remember the Gundam (a ground unit) destroying plenty of flying things all the time, but those shows don't really have flying MS's (Zeta and ZZ have flying transformed MS's though, though I don't remember a battle where a main character was having trouble destroying those transformed MS's just because they are flying). MS's have the ability to boost into the air even if they don't fly, so fighting flying things was really not much of an issue.

[LightningZERO]

I thought AGE Builder making Titus was perfectly plausible. Afterall, it was tailor made to counter a specific kind of enemy, in a specific environment. It's not perfect, but in this case, Titus got the job done. I have a feeling that it will get its ass kicked by the high mobility Zedas, which will lead to the high mobility Spallow to counter it.

Anyway, if AGE Builder managed to build new AGE parts with high speed, high defense, high powered rifles and high powered beam saber, people will scream that it is too overpowered. It makes sense to show that AGE Builder is not perfect. It might be too specified for its own good

[Urei]

Originally Posted by brightman

What? Fighting a high mobility flying unit with a ground unit is all they COULD do. None of the non-UE suits can fly right now. And that isn't even what you said a few posts before. Besides, the Titus isn't exactly immobile. The AGE system is not telling Flit to fight a DINN with a ZuOOT, if you get my drift.

It's not an aerial unit either and it's additional weith and armor does not improve it's chances against a unit that actualy has an ability to fly, especialy with no ranged weapons as it's equipment, which other non-UE seem to posses, as non-effective as they are. Equipping the new Spec with no ranged weapons in a combat that features aerial enemies is illogical no matter what you say.

Originally Posted by brightman

Gafrans aren't exactly that that highly mobile either. They are the Zakus of the UE, grunt suits with grunt specs. The AGE-Normal was able to take those down with basic levels of mobility. The Zedas is what you are thinking of, and that fight will probably happen and that is when we will probably see the Spallow. Right now, as I said, they have yet to gather enough battle data for the Zedas for anything like that to come out yet.

That's a good argument, then again, Titus is not a mobility imprevement over the original eaither. The extent of it's mobility decrease is unknown. Logic dictates to treat it that way too.

Originally Posted by brightman

As to your claims about MSG/Zeta/ZZ/0083, I can remember the Gundam (a ground unit) destroying plenty of flying things all the time, but those shows don't really have flying MS's (Zeta and ZZ have flying transformed MS's though, though I don't remember a battle where a main character was having trouble destroying those transformed MS's just because they are flying). MS's have the ability to boost into the air, so fighting flying things was really not much of an issue.

As I said, fight an aerial unit with no ranged weapons and only with short reach melee weapons based around your arm, knee and shoulder all while jumping.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Urei

It's not an aerial unit either and it's additional weith and armor does not improve it's chances against a unit that actualy has an ability to fly, especialy with no ranged weapons as it's equipment, which other non-UE seem to posses, as non-effective as they are. Equipping the new Spec with no ranged weapons in a combat that features aerial enemies is illogical no matter what you say.

The AGE System saw those UE ranged weapons and made parts that are tough enough to withstand the weapons such that they cannot hurt the Gundam, thereby forcing these flying units to go melee on the Titus, which is its forte. It also ensures that Flit won't have to spam any powerful range weapons and risk causing another torsional collapse of the colony.

Is that not enough logic for you?

That's a good argument, then again, Titus is not a mobility imprevement over the original eaither. The extent of it's mobility decrease is unknown. Logic dictates to treat it that way too.

Visually it looks to be an improvement though - its moving a lot better than in the last two episodes.

As I said, fight an aerial unit with no ranged weapons and only with short reach melee weapons based around your arm, knee and shoulder all while jumping.

See above.

[aeriolewinters]

The Titus was tailormade to fight in fardain, Remember that the first battle the Baqto was involved in, Flit had difficulty firing the dods rifle because it was too powerful. Also as brightman said, there is no data that the Gafrans have long range weaponry, and if it was the case, I'm sure that the programming of the Age system will take that into consideration. All combat data pertaining to the UE were yielding results that would suggest that a long range attack isn't a viable option for those suits.

[monster]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

The Titus was tailormade to fight in fardain, Remember that the first battle the Baqto was involved in, Flit had difficulty firing the dods rifle because it was too powerful. Also as brightman said, there is no data that the Gafrans have long range weaponry, and if it was the case, I'm sure that the programming of the Age system will take that into consideration. All combat data pertaining to the UE were yielding results that would suggest that a long range attack isn't a viable option for those suits.

Would that data involve the reason why Flit is hesitant to use the DODS rifle? It doesn't seem like it would seeing as how it should only be taking in raw combat data. And if it doesn't take that into account, then having a more powerful rifle should still be a valid option.

I'm curious if that will ever be an issue where the AGE System determines a specific weapon to be suitable and Flit or whoever the pilot is may refuse to use that weapon for whatever reasons even if that weapon might be their only chance at winning. (I would've said surviving but the UE sometimes just spare them anyway.)

[Realist_Classic]

You can harass and maybe bomb/strafe targets as an aerial unit, but you can't occupy territory. Eventually, you'll have to land and fight on the ground.

If high mobility units must be engaged in the air, provided that Titus can use the DOTS rifle, Flit may could theoretically boost jump close enough to a chosen UE unit and fire the DOTS rifle midair with a higher probability of landing a shot than shooting from the ground. Or, if he's working tag team with other mobile suits, they can always set up traps, have Flit use Titus to lure or distract UE units and have someone experienced like Woolf do the actual aiming and shooting.

[Realist_Classic]

Originally Posted by monster

Would that data involve the reason why Flit is hesitant to use the DODS rifle? It doesn't seem like it would seeing as how it should only be taking in raw combat data. And if it doesn't take that into account, then having a more powerful rifle should still be a valid option.

I'm tempted to speculate that the shock of having taken actual damage caused an override in the AGE System and thus create something with high defense values (armor). The AGE System, while not sentient, is more or less symbiotic with the Gundam is likely programmed with a bias towards preserving the Gundam and its pilot's life.

I'm curious if that will ever be an issue where the AGE System determines a specific weapon to be suitable and Flit or whoever the pilot is may refuse to use that weapon for whatever reasons even if that weapon might be their only chance at winning. (I would've said surviving but the UE sometimes just spare them anyway.)

I can see this becoming a case for a character's development. I can also foresee some rather silly scenarios, like the AGE System coming up with a huge beam fly-swatter to deal with those pesky high-mobility units.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Realist_Classic

I'm tempted to speculate that the shock of having taken actual damage caused an override in the AGE System and thus create something with high defense values (armor). The AGE System, while not sentient, is more or less symbiotic with the Gundam is likely programmed with a bias towards preserving the Gundam and its pilot's life.

Sure, the defense excuse is valid enough as it is. They even went so far as to show the Gundam's shoulder being damaged. So now they have to put something there to cover it up.

I can see this becoming a case for a character's development. I can also foresee some rather silly scenarios, like the AGE System coming up with a huge beam fly-swatter to deal with those pesky high-mobility units.

That must be quite a shock if it ever comes up with that. Perhaps then it's time to retire the system for a new and improved version.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Well the Age system seems to have taken to consideration the earlier battle with the collateral damage.

The Titus parts was specifically designed so that ranged beam weapons wont be needed. Titus was specifically made for close range in your face fights.

We finally get a name for the mask man, Yark Dole.

And he gets his custom mech from the same guy. Who knew?

Grodek is probably thinking whoever the UE are they have access to old technology given the stealth screen. Now he has a suspect name.

[StrikeFreedomV2]

This episode was fucking great imo! Great action and a little bit of mystery at the end... I like that^^ The only thing I can say about the G-Exes and the Titus is: I fucking wan't those damn model-kits!!!

I give the ep a 9. Can't wait for the next week^^

[ars89]

Nice action, but forget the Titus. The G-Exes is so awesome! Nice to see Zalam and Euba come to truce. So now Grodek has to meet this Dak Yole who seems very interesting. Also i'm guessing that black ms in the hangar was his, looks to much like and EU ms.

[Znozzy]

Glad to see they actually developed more on the episode 7äs rushed ending with them showing more Largan fighting and the Titus parts getting strapped on

The Titus was pretty underwhelming and in my opinion the G-exes overshadowed it in less than a minute

You can really tell they are just trying to sell toys in this episode with wolf pointing it out " in a fun way ", made me giggle a bit, but it's pretty sad they are actually doing commercials in the actual episode now.

Fighting execution and choreography is still horrible, the UE are just plain out dumb to make the Titus look good, they show no sense of strategy at all.

Homage to AE in AGE? pretty nice, but this " dark merchant " idea seems a tad bit silly.

One fun thing was to see the AGE-1 getting its parts replaced, Gunpla style!

Overall i expected a bit more out of this episode, going to give it a 4/10

[Realist_Classic]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

You can really tell they are just trying to sell toys in this episode with wolf pointing it out " in a fun way ", made me giggle a bit, but it's pretty sad they are actually doing commercials in the actual episode now.

It was done in a very tongue-in-cheek manner. Even if that line wasn't uttered, the Exes will still sell like hotcakes relative to the other models.

Homage to AE in AGE? pretty nice, but this " dark merchant " idea seems a tad bit silly.

I'm curious as to see how they go about doing this. Gundam is proprietary technology, but this episode revealed that there's potentially a whole bunch of tech buried on Earth or elsewhere. We could get some interesting non-UE antagonists along the way. Some obvious homages to Turn A seems likely as well.

One fun thing was to see the AGE-1 getting its parts replaced, Gunpla style!

That scene was like a Keroro Gunso flashback. But that's explainable

[Araxiel]

Originally Posted by Urei

As I said, fight an aerial unit with no ranged weapons and only with short reach melee weapons based around your arm, knee and shoulder all while jumping.

Just weighing in on the whole Titus thing here; The AGE system re-equips the Gundam based on available data, yes? It might be true that the Gafran would be able to easily oumaneuver the ground-bound Titus, but consider that the only battles it's experienced so far have been in space, and within the colony.
We've seen that Titus is capable of reaching and beating Gafrans within the confines of a colony, and if it were in space flight capability's not an issue. If the show ever goes to Earth, the Gundam might get re-specced again, but for now, Titus is sufficient.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Concering the Titus and this episode, personally I have a hard time understanding why it seems that we always have to try and justify every single thing that happens in Gundam to do with power scaling, "toy commercials" and "realism" and what not that some people will obviously never be okay with. Seems like something one could spend a whole lifetime doing and never reach any sort of satisfying conclusion and personally I'd rather just watch the show and not worry about this sort of stuff obsessively unless it really becomes a problem. Then again I don't take much offense to anything other than excessive use of stock footage and speed lines in mecha combat of which this series only has the latter so far. That would be my only issue with how the action is depicted in AGE.

Back on the Titus and me not wanting to get into yet another manufactured argument over it (ask Chris Guanche of MAHQ to tell you about the former Colosseum sub forum on Mechatalk if you want to know why), maybe that's part of the reason I've managed to enjoy both U.C and AU Gundam shows so consistently. I'm willing to allow each individual series to do their own thing and have their own rules on how the MS are built and customized and don't feel the need to constantly defend anything more than a beam saber, beam rifle and shield on an MS. Just don't feel the need to make like we should always be on the ropes versus posters that don't like anything that isn't immediately recognizable as "realistic". I feel as a fan it's not really my place to try and justify nor to outright condemn each and every mobile suit design and Gundam customization in an AU series and whether it fits or not in whatever episode it's introduced in. It is what it is and if you don't like it you don't like and if you do then you do.

[brightman]

^Eh, some people may be legitimately confused... So we're just explainin' stuff.

Actually, I find that I learn even more about the universe too in the process.