AnimeSuki Forums

poko-kun · 2009-11-09, 02:24

Sorry, I'm lost

Just pop my head to show you guys what I did at the cosplay event yesterday.

Spoiler for ..:

mit7059 · 2009-11-09, 03:08

Only going to make one comment about ep 32 since I need to go to sleep but judging by the preview I can't wait for Akaishi's "I'm gonna brush you!" comments, I really hope the translation is similar for some reason that was one of the funniest points of the manga for me.

The Rumblefish · 2009-11-09, 21:07

Joeboygo:
Good question. I am a bit busy but I'll look into it this weekend.

By the way, Cross Game comes back next week. NEXT WEEK! Color pages, too.

Proto · 2009-11-09, 21:38

Lies. Cross Game is coming back after New Year since Adachi had another set back because of health problems, says the latest statement in the magazine where it is serialized according to this japanese blog

mit7059 · 2009-11-09, 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proto

Lies. Cross Game is coming back after New Year since Adachi had another set back because of health problems, says the latest statement in the magazine where it is serialized according to this japanese blog

I almost just had a heart attack. That was probably the most evil thing you could have done, except possibly linking to an undecipherable japanese blog.

PeterI · 2009-11-10, 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeboygo

Peter:

I'm still intrigued by the issue of when Kou started looking at Aoba as a woman.

The first definite indication is in Part II Chapter 53 when Koh stares at Aoba through the shop window and just barely avoids getting caught. http://www.onemanga.com/Cross_Game/63/09/. The animation (episode 17) makes it a bit more obvious than the manga does.

I think the big moment for Aoba is her "nightmare" of cheering for Koh as he throws a 160 km/h fastball. http://www.onemanga.com/Cross_Game/30/15/. Aoba knows exactly what the dream means and she is horrified at the thought.

joeboygo · 2009-11-11, 01:12

Peter:

That's a very good catch. It's worth looking for moments like that so we can trace the transition from this:http://www.onemanga.com/Cross_Game/69/01/ to this: http://www.onemanga.com/Cross_Game/149/07/, then to this: http://www.onemanga.com/Cross_Game/20/09/, until finally to where they are now. As you can see, their childhood relationship had the rough and frisky physicality of two quarelsome little brothers. A bit of it carried over past puberty, as when Kou grabbed Aoba by the collar. But immediately after doing so, he appears to have noticed certain changes about her(bulges in strange places perhaps?), which is why he suddenly switched tack and asked to borrow a pan. Before Kou grabbed her, Aoba was protesting that a male stranger should not be allowed to be alone with two females. That was news to Momiji, who clearly did not perceive Kou as a stranger at all (he's been part of her family since she was an infant) and was having none of Aoba's newfound sense of propriety. So in that scene Adachi introduces the creeping onset of sexual tension between Kou and Aoba that would eventually transform the nature of their relationship.

Obviously, a boy can't grab a girl like that unless they had attained a significant level of familiarity. In this case, it may even have been over-familiarity. Transitioning from that kind of comfortable relationship to a male+female pairbond ought to be extremely awkward, and I think that should go a long way towards explaining Kou and Aoba's conflicted attitudes towards each other. At the cemetary Kou and Aoba tried to remember why they got into a fight there when they were young, and both drew blanks. To me this was an indication that the evolution of their relationship from childhood antagonists to adult sweethearts was almost complete. Adachi managed the transformation of their relationship so gradually and naturally that most people here did not even pick up on how strange it should have felt for Kou and Aoba. So I think it's worthwhile to backtrack and see how Adachi pulled it off. I think it's the masterstoke that will define Cross Game as one of his best works.

The Rumblefish · 2009-11-11, 05:50

Nice posts. I would argue that Aoba was not fully aware of the romantic implications behind her nightmare. Or at least not ready to understand them. I think the first lightbulb switched on during a baseball-related event which made her understand what Wakaba saw in him. For example, maybe when he "confessed" his fastball during their night play catch session at the park (surrounded by other couples). Or during one of his matches while she was in the audience.

Quote:

Obviously, a boy can't grab a girl like that

What is especially interesting about this episode is the following morning. Not even the cuddling but the fact they were sleeping next to each other without thinking twice about it, even though they have arguments and fights all the time. They are still incredibly comfortable with each other physically at that point in the story. Just a few months later, you would not catch her dead sleeping that close to him. In fact, if that scenario reproduced itself every month, there would probably be a correlation between Aoba's growing affection for Kô and how how far apart they would sleep from each other.

I was curious about which chapter of the manga was reached by the anime and I have to say the following eight chapters (= 2 or 3 episodes) to be "translated" in the anime hold some of the most intense plot developments of Cross Game. I think the anime topic will get fired up at the library coincidence, the Valentine chocolates incident and Azuma's confession.

However, there is one thing in particular which caught my attention for the very first time:
http://www.onemanga.com/Cross_Game/110/11/

"It was turning out into the talk of the town among all the gossipy ladies."

Uh huh. Sure. Right.
W... Wait a minute, how the hell does Azuma know that!? We know he is a smart cookie, but he seems to be telling a fact here, not pointing out his observation. Do we know what he does and who he visits in between practices? Do we know where he gets his pocket money from? Well, I am starting to understand why he is so relaxed about not having a steady girlfriend.

I am kidding of course, but in all seriousness, Azuma is so mature and well behaved that I would not be that much surprised discovering another side of him, suffering through gossipy ladies while he is helping them carry their groceries back home.

joeboygo · 2009-11-11, 07:07

Good observations Fish. The only point I would add is that Aoba wasn't aware she had spooned Kou. That would have mortally embarrassed her. But yes, just the fact that they could fall asleep together in the same room shows how familiar and comfortable with each other they remained at that point.

I think what got the ball rolling in Kou's head was Aoba spooning him. It was his first non-hostile physical contact with her, even if it was inadvertent. In other words, it was his first physical experience of her feminine side, and it must have opened his eyes. He would have had to have been a eunuch to not be affected by it. Through his back he copped a good long feel of her body, including those lady parts, felt her body heat and her warm breath on his neck, got a good whiff of whatever scents she had on, and suddenly that longstanding brotherly attitude begins its gradual erosion. The wall may not have come down that night, but certainly the first cracks in the foundation appear. Do you think he got much sleep?

Anent Azuma's observation, let me check the original Japanese text to see what he really said.

golthin · 2009-11-11, 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rumblefish

What is especially interesting about this episode is the following morning. Not even the cuddling but the fact they were sleeping next to each other without thinking twice about it, even though they have arguments and fights all the time. They are still incredibly comfortable with each other physically at that point in the story. Just a few months later, you would not catch her dead sleeping that close to him. In fact, if that scenario reproduced itself every month, there would probably be a correlation between Aoba's growing affection for Kô and how how far apart they would sleep from each other.

That is a pity, because I thought that scene was one of the most cute ever. As they grow closer we won't see that again, but hopefully we will see something else.

joeboygo · 2009-11-11, 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by golthin

That is a pity, because I thought that scene was one of the most cute ever. As they grow closer we won't see that again, but hopefully we will see something else.

I don't know if Adachi will show it to us, but that is what should come next. Fish is right in that they would first have to grow uncomfortable with each other as they sort out their gender roles with respect to each other, then work their way back together in a new relationship. This is because it's not natural to segue from an almost brother/sister relationship to a romantic pairing. The old relationship has to go away first. So, on the train going to Waka's grave, Aoba sat apart from Kou. That's actually a good sign. For them to draw physically closer again, some form of courtship needs to take place.

The Rumblefish · 2009-11-11, 17:43

Reading through the chapters 107 to 160 again, it's amazing how straight and open all supporting characters have been about betting on Kô and Aoba being made for each other (well, except Mizuki). Even Senda played a part in that. Akane understood the uniqueness of their relationship incredibly fast. Azuma is possibly too clairvoyant for his own good. In the end, only Akaishi didn't support that couple by trying to help Kô starting well with Akane (remember the kabuki tickets), which is quite an interesting detail since he is the one who has the most to hope/gain from Kô ending with Aoba.

After Joeboygo's "season of Kôshien" bet, it's my turn to make a bold prediction that I will shove down everyone's throat if proven correct, and conveniently let be forgotten by all if completely missing the mark.

I think we'll get the end of this match, then either one or a few post-match chapters (by which I mean right after the match). I am still convinced the list subplot won't get dropped. We have to see the 20 years old Kô getting married to fulfill the list until the end.

So my bet is that we won't see the kôshien at all. Instead, we'll get a "what happened to hem" time jump for the final chapter, just like the ending of that other famous manga by Adachi. Except the time jump will not be right after Kôshien but two years later. It will be the day of Kô's wedding and although little doubt will persist on the identity of the bride, Adachi will playfully keep her secret as long as possible by showing the outcomes of supportive characters first. We'll get to see Ichiyo, Azuma's brother and their young kid(s). We'll get to see the rest of the team and learn that they won the Kôshien that year. We'll learn that Aoba was on the poster and therefore the dream was completed. We'll see a pre-teen Momiji grow up as a cute mix between Aoba and Wakaba's personalities. We'll get to learn that Akaishi and Akane are together just before the big reveal. And of course the manga will end with Aoba as the bride. Bam! Cross Game Owari.

Kunagisa · 2009-11-11, 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rumblefish

Reading through the chapters 107 to 160 again, it's amazing how straight and open all supporting characters have been about betting on Kô and Aoba being made for each other (well, except Mizuki). Even Senda played a part in that. Akane understood the uniqueness of their relationship incredibly fast. Azuma is possibly too clairvoyant for his own good. In the end, only Akaishi didn't support that couple by trying to help Kô starting well with Akane (remember the kabuki tickets), which is quite an interesting detail since he is the one who has the most to hope/gain from Kô ending with Aoba.

After Joeboygo's "season of Kôshien" bet, it's my turn to make a bold prediction that I will shove down everyone's throat if proven correct, and conveniently let be forgotten by all if completely missing the mark.

I think we'll get the end of this match, then either one or a few post-match chapters (by which I mean right after the match). I am still convinced the list subplot won't get dropped. We have to see the 20 years old Kô getting married to fulfill the list until the end.

So my bet is that we won't see the kôshien at all. Instead, we'll get a "what happened to hem" time jump for the final chapter, just like the ending of that other famous manga by Adachi. Except the time jump will not be right after Kôshien but two years later. It will be the day of Kô's wedding and although little doubt will persist on the identity of the bride, Adachi will playfully keep her secret as long as possible by showing the outcomes of supportive characters first. We'll get to see Ichiyo, Azuma's brother and their young kid(s). We'll get to see the rest of the team and learn that they won the Kôshien that year. We'll learn that Aoba was on the poster and therefore the dream was completed. We'll see a pre-teen Momiji grow up as a cute mix between Aoba and Wakaba's personalities. We'll get to learn that Akaishi and Akane are together just before the big reveal. And of course the manga will end with Aoba as the bride. Bam! Cross Game Owari.

Somehow, I would love to see this ending, but at the same time, I think such a clear cut ending isn't Adachi's style (everything's just wrapped out too nicely).

Complete side track, WHERE'S THE Q AND A TOPIC (chapter 7's out and I don't see a topic !!!)??!?!

The Rumblefish · 2009-11-11, 18:56

Hmm, true. It does answer everything way too conveniently. He rarely does that...

I was wondering the same thing about Q and A when reading chapter 7 at lunch. I think the lack of enthusiasm has to do with the translation being dropped. To be honest, so far Q and A smells like a low-tier project from Adachi.

I have to admit that the

Spoiler for one of the characters from the introduction chapters:

seems like a promising character.

Proto · 2009-11-11, 19:09

spoilers go in the q&a thread kthx. I will start that series in 3 or 4 years when there are more chapters out.

mimi chan · 2009-11-13, 12:52

I wanna ask a question that was bothering me for a while

Come to think of it, Adachi never mentioned Aoba's birthday throughout the manga. I really wonder why? Because as I know Aoba is also the protagonist of the manga, right?

mit7059 · 2009-11-15, 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by mimi chan

I wanna ask a question that was bothering me for a while

Come to think of it, Adachi never mentioned Aoba's birthday throughout the manga. I really wonder why? Because as I know Aoba is also the protagonist of the manga, right?

Probably two reasons.
1. Aoba is probably almost exactly a year younger than Kou and Waka so her birthday would fall around the same time and be totally overshadowed by the whole Kou/Waka affair.

2. Can you see Aoba as being the type to celebrate her own birthday? She doesn't really seek attention, especially if its not for something she didn't earn. I doubt she feels like surviving another year deserves a lot of credit.

blackflash · 2009-11-16, 09:04

New chapter is out!

Proto · 2009-11-16, 10:15

I see what he is doing. Not a chapter with a gigantic impact as one would expect, but a good chapter nevertheless. LOL@Oikawa.

The Rumblefish · 2009-11-16, 10:42

(FINALLY!)

I don't know if that was intentional but at first I was scared that

Spoiler for chapter151:

Nice baseball scene, powerful moment for the two Azuma brothers and hilarious Oikawa as always.

2009-11-09, 02:24	Link #921
poko-kun Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007	Sorry, I'm lost Just pop my head to show you guys what I did at the cosplay event yesterday. Spoiler for ..: __________________ It's Cross game month!

2009-11-09, 03:08	Link #922
mit7059 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Austin, TX Age: 34	Only going to make one comment about ep 32 since I need to go to sleep but judging by the preview I can't wait for Akaishi's "I'm gonna brush you!" comments, I really hope the translation is similar for some reason that was one of the funniest points of the manga for me. __________________ *If you can't dazzle them with brilliance baffle them with bullshit ~Coach Davids* More of a manga reader now than an anime watcher. Currently reading list here

2009-11-09, 21:38	Link #924
Proto Knowledge is the solution Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 39	Lies. Cross Game is coming back after New Year since Adachi had another set back because of health problems, says the latest statement in the magazine where it is serialized according to this japanese blog __________________ How to play Japanese games in Linux

2009-11-11, 01:12	Link #927
joeboygo mechaii Join Date: Jul 2009 Age: 44	Peter: That's a very good catch. It's worth looking for moments like that so we can trace the transition from this:http://www.onemanga.com/Cross_Game/69/01/ to this: http://www.onemanga.com/Cross_Game/149/07/, then to this: http://www.onemanga.com/Cross_Game/20/09/, until finally to where they are now. As you can see, their childhood relationship had the rough and frisky physicality of two quarelsome little brothers. A bit of it carried over past puberty, as when Kou grabbed Aoba by the collar. But immediately after doing so, he appears to have noticed certain changes about her(bulges in strange places perhaps?), which is why he suddenly switched tack and asked to borrow a pan. Before Kou grabbed her, Aoba was protesting that a male stranger should not be allowed to be alone with two females. That was news to Momiji, who clearly did not perceive Kou as a stranger at all (he's been part of her family since she was an infant) and was having none of Aoba's newfound sense of propriety. So in that scene Adachi introduces the creeping onset of sexual tension between Kou and Aoba that would eventually transform the nature of their relationship. Obviously, a boy can't grab a girl like that unless they had attained a significant level of familiarity. In this case, it may even have been over-familiarity. Transitioning from that kind of comfortable relationship to a male+female pairbond ought to be extremely awkward, and I think that should go a long way towards explaining Kou and Aoba's conflicted attitudes towards each other. At the cemetary Kou and Aoba tried to remember why they got into a fight there when they were young, and both drew blanks. To me this was an indication that the evolution of their relationship from childhood antagonists to adult sweethearts was almost complete. Adachi managed the transformation of their relationship so gradually and naturally that most people here did not even pick up on how strange it should have felt for Kou and Aoba. So I think it's worthwhile to backtrack and see how Adachi pulled it off. I think it's the masterstoke that will define Cross Game as one of his best works. Last edited by joeboygo; 2009-11-11 at 01:29.

2009-11-11, 07:07	Link #929
joeboygo mechaii Join Date: Jul 2009 Age: 44	Good observations Fish. The only point I would add is that Aoba wasn't aware she had spooned Kou. That would have mortally embarrassed her. But yes, just the fact that they could fall asleep together in the same room shows how familiar and comfortable with each other they remained at that point. I think what got the ball rolling in Kou's head was Aoba spooning him. It was his first non-hostile physical contact with her, even if it was inadvertent. In other words, it was his first physical experience of her feminine side, and it must have opened his eyes. He would have had to have been a eunuch to not be affected by it. Through his back he copped a good long feel of her body, including those lady parts, felt her body heat and her warm breath on his neck, got a good whiff of whatever scents she had on, and suddenly that longstanding brotherly attitude begins its gradual erosion. The wall may not have come down that night, but certainly the first cracks in the foundation appear. Do you think he got much sleep? Anent Azuma's observation, let me check the original Japanese text to see what he really said. Last edited by joeboygo; 2009-11-11 at 07:30.

2009-11-09, 21:07	Link #923
The Rumblefish Hurray for Takako Shimura Join Date: Sep 2009	Joeboygo: Good question. I am a bit busy but I'll look into it this weekend. By the way, Cross Game comes back next week. NEXT WEEK! Color pages, too.

2009-11-11, 17:43	Link #932
The Rumblefish Hurray for Takako Shimura Join Date: Sep 2009	Reading through the chapters 107 to 160 again, it's amazing how straight and open all supporting characters have been about betting on Kô and Aoba being made for each other (well, except Mizuki). Even Senda played a part in that. Akane understood the uniqueness of their relationship incredibly fast. Azuma is possibly too clairvoyant for his own good. In the end, only Akaishi didn't support that couple by trying to help Kô starting well with Akane (remember the kabuki tickets), which is quite an interesting detail since he is the one who has the most to hope/gain from Kô ending with Aoba. After Joeboygo's "season of Kôshien" bet, it's my turn to make a bold prediction that I will shove down everyone's throat if proven correct, and conveniently let be forgotten by all if completely missing the mark. I think we'll get the end of this match, then either one or a few post-match chapters (by which I mean right after the match). I am still convinced the list subplot won't get dropped. We have to see the 20 years old Kô getting married to fulfill the list until the end. So my bet is that we won't see the kôshien at all. Instead, we'll get a "what happened to hem" time jump for the final chapter, just like the ending of that other famous manga by Adachi. Except the time jump will not be right after Kôshien but two years later. It will be the day of Kô's wedding and although little doubt will persist on the identity of the bride, Adachi will playfully keep her secret as long as possible by showing the outcomes of supportive characters first. We'll get to see Ichiyo, Azuma's brother and their young kid(s). We'll get to see the rest of the team and learn that they won the Kôshien that year. We'll learn that Aoba was on the poster and therefore the dream was completed. We'll see a pre-teen Momiji grow up as a cute mix between Aoba and Wakaba's personalities. We'll get to learn that Akaishi and Akane are together just before the big reveal. And of course the manga will end with Aoba as the bride. Bam! Cross Game Owari.

2009-11-11, 18:56	Link #934
The Rumblefish Hurray for Takako Shimura Join Date: Sep 2009	Hmm, true. It does answer everything way too conveniently. He rarely does that... I was wondering the same thing about Q and A when reading chapter 7 at lunch. I think the lack of enthusiasm has to do with the translation being dropped. To be honest, so far Q and A smells like a low-tier project from Adachi. I have to admit that the Spoiler for one of the characters from the introduction chapters: ghost-seeing girl seems like a promising character. Last edited by The Rumblefish; 2009-11-11 at 19:18.

2009-11-11, 19:09	Link #935
Proto Knowledge is the solution Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 39	spoilers go in the q&a thread kthx. I will start that series in 3 or 4 years when there are more chapters out. __________________ How to play Japanese games in Linux

2009-11-13, 12:52	Link #936
mimi chan Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009	I wanna ask a question that was bothering me for a while Come to think of it, Adachi never mentioned Aoba's birthday throughout the manga. I really wonder why? Because as I know Aoba is also the protagonist of the manga, right?

2009-11-16, 09:04	Link #938
blackflash Cookie Monster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: London, England Age: 38	New chapter is out! __________________ I aint getting on no plane, FOOL!

2009-11-16, 10:15	Link #939
Proto Knowledge is the solution Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 39	I see what he is doing. Not a chapter with a gigantic impact as one would expect, but a good chapter nevertheless. LOL@Oikawa. __________________ How to play Japanese games in Linux

2009-11-16, 10:42	Link #940
The Rumblefish Hurray for Takako Shimura Join Date: Sep 2009	(FINALLY!) I don't know if that was intentional but at first I was scared that Spoiler for chapter151: we were going through a time jump and have to figure out by ourselves what happened in the extra innings from some hints in the dialogue. Nice baseball scene, powerful moment for the two Azuma brothers and hilarious Oikawa as always.