2009-12-05, 10:29 | Link #121 | |
Pajama Party!
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Luffy has never been shown to consciously use his haki or have any control over it, so it shouldn't be surprising that he's not using it during this battle. The most he's done is release a burst of it that's affected weaklings in his immediate surroundings. |
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2009-12-05, 11:56 | Link #122 | |
zzz
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The thing is, both Ray and Mihawk are swordsmen, and Mihawk is stronger then Ray. If there was someone stronger then Luffy who was also made out of Rubber, I'm pretty sure that character would be able to defeat Enel the same way Luffy did as well.
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2009-12-05, 12:09 | Link #123 | |
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2009-12-05, 13:15 | Link #124 | |
Pirate God
Join Date: Nov 2009
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What in the world makes you think that Mihawk has Ray's attributes just because you think he's stronger? |
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2009-12-05, 13:49 | Link #125 |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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^You are correct in that statement. For example, presumably, Shanks is something of a swordsman, but simply because he is a swordsman doesn't mean that Mihawk is the stronger (overall) of the 2, it simply means Mihawk is the stronger swordsman (and whatever that may entitle). The same is true of Rayleigh. Rayleigh, also presumably a swordsman, may very well be stronger than Mihawk, but Mihawk is definitely the stronger swordsman.
That being said, this is kind of a side discussion (and I do still believe that Mihawk has the ability to fight Logia's without resorting to their natural weaknesses)... In regards to the chapter, I am still unsure if Akainu is a Logia, or if he was simply forming magma on his body. Specifically, I can clearly see Kizaru and Aokiji "breaking" when they are struck (and pieces of their heads seem to disappear in the onslaught of Luffy's barrage), but Akainu doesn't quite have same level of detail, so I am unsure (this wouldn't be the first time we have had a viscous substance for a paramecia, after all). That being said, I find it funny that I mentioned wanting to see Yamakaji earlier in the thread, but then completely skipped over him when he appeared in this chapter... |
2009-12-05, 14:51 | Link #126 | |
zzz
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Secondly, Oda states that Mihawk is stronger then Rayleigh. Since Mihawk is the strongest swordsmen in the world, and assuming that Ray is a swordsman as well (which is a reasonable assumption given that he was seen using a sword in flashbacks as well as against Kizaru), he is definitely stronger then Ray. Its like this: Mihawk = strongest swordsman in the world Rayleigh = swordsman Mihawk = stronger hten Rayleig? How does that not make sense?
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2009-12-05, 15:00 | Link #127 | |
Okuyasu the Bird
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Rayleigh would definetly lose if he went up against Mihawk with swordplay alone, but with his haki, he could probably even up the odds.
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2009-12-05, 15:18 | Link #128 | |
Pirate God
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Do you know Ryuma, Kaku or the swordsman in Buggy's Crew? Did Zoro who's stronger than them use their techniques? No, he didn't. So it's retarted to think that Mihawk can hurt Logias just cuz Ray did so, being stronger than someone doesn't mean that you can do whatever that person can do. If you only needed SWORDSMANSHIP to hurt Logias, Brook would've been able to hurt Kizaru and Zoro would've also hurt Enel. |
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2009-12-05, 15:31 | Link #130 | |
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Consequently, since Zoro is following a path that leads to Mihawk, it stands to reason that Mihawk, when he was first climbing up to the top, would have had a similar path to Zoro's. So, it seems reasonable to assume that Mihawk can also hear the "breath", and if so, that could be the necessary ability needed to cut an element (and yes, cut implies an act of violence (otherwise, why would it even be mentioned), not the simple separation that Tenryuken has alluded to in the past), something we know Mihawk has mastered. To speculate further, it is possible that Rayleigh and Shanks have never heard the "breath", but rather have used directed/active Haki to counterbalance this discrepancy as a swordsman. Consequently, while both can cut an element, they use different mechanisms to achieve their goals. -- In regards to the chapter, I have never noticed DoFlamingo's high-heels before, but after seeing them I have the strange urge to find a pair for myself (sorry bad j/k, the image of DoFlamingo foot striking Crocodile's hook looks like a weird pair of high-heel shoes), ...I also have had the growing urge to cosplay as Doflamingo for quite awhile. Maybe this arc will finally push me over the edge, and I will ask a friend to design a DoFlamingo outfit for me... That being said, is Oars standing or kneeling? Because it looks like he is standing, which makes little sense considering he is currently missing a foot... Last edited by james0246; 2009-12-05 at 15:44. |
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2009-12-05, 15:51 | Link #131 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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I don't think he standing , if he was he be way higher than that wall, more like he on his knees to me . Can't be to certain cause it looks funny from far . |
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2009-12-05, 15:56 | Link #132 |
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^Yeah, that was my problem. When we see him in the long shot on page 8-9, it is hard to see his legs, and when he is moved to the foreground, the panels aren't big enough to see his body and his feet. So, I am never sure exactly where his shoulders are in proportion to the shield/gate, and consequently cannot tell if he is drawn correctly or not (I assume he is, but it is a little unclear).
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2009-12-05, 16:15 | Link #133 | |
zzz
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I'm just saying, both Ray and Mihawk belong to the category 'swordsman', and Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world, therefore Mihawk MUST be stronger then Ray. =.= How is that even hard to understand at all? Its like, WB and Sengoku are both men, WB is the strongest man int he world, therefore he must be stronger then Sengoku. Or Messi and Beckham are both football players, Messi is currently the best footballer int he world, therefore Messi must be better then Beckham. WHY IS IT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND? OMFG
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2009-12-05, 16:30 | Link #135 |
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^What you do not understand is that being the greatest swordsmen does not equal being the strongest. For instance, using the example of Whitebeard, He is definitively called the Strongest Man, that indicates that he is the overall strongest (realistically, it is just a title used to convey that he has fought equally with Roger). Mihawk, though, with the title of Strongest swordsman, is only the strongest in terms of swords. Consequently, if someone uses a sword, their swordsmanship would naturally be considered lower than Mihawk’s, but since that is potentially only one aspect of what we can call a person's "Strength”, which means if the lesser swordsman had another ability, they could potentially equal or surpass Mihawk's overall strength, but not his swordsmanship.
Consequently, a swordsman can be a stronger individual than Mihawk, but not be a stronger swordsman (especially, if being considered the strongest swordsman has more to do with how the swordsman can cut an element, and less to do with the actual sword or subsequently school of combat). To put it another way, the ultimate scale is against Whitebeard, not Mihawk, so everything must then be compared against Whitebeard. Consequently, someone like Shanks or Rayleigh could be far closer in strength to Whitebeard, but they could still be a weaker swordsmen compared to Mihawk. |
2009-12-05, 16:41 | Link #136 | |
zzz
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2009-12-05, 16:52 | Link #137 | |
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For example, take Enshi from Rurouni Kenshin. He is a fine swordsman, but he was (intentionally designed) weaker than both Kenshin and Shishio (and probably Aoshi) in terms of swordsmanship, so to counterbalance his weakness, he developed extra skills (as well as a killer plan) that allowed him to fight evenly against Kenshin. Shanks or Rayleigh could very well be the same. They are weaker with just a sword, but when you add their x-factor (another ability previously unknown or unexplained), then they become equal or greater to Mihawk. Note, I am not saying this is true, or even speculating that this is what will happen. In the end, I could care less who is equal or who is greater between the 3. Rather, I am just walking through the logic to show how a swordsman can be stronger than Mihawk, but weaker in swordsmanship. |
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2009-12-05, 16:53 | Link #138 | ||||||
Pirate God
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In My Own World.
Age: 38
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Everybody fight his own way. About Mihawk not being able to hurt the Admirals. Quote:
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Did you figure that out on your own? Quote:
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2009-12-05, 17:01 | Link #139 | |||
zzz
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The thing is that the whole point of being a swordsman is that one is strongest whilst fighting wiht a sword. Whats the point of being a so called swordsman if one is better with a gun or with ones fists? Besides, if we look at the swordsmen in other crews, none have used anything other then their swords (Kaku, Zoro, Vista, Buggy's resident swordsman, Ryumma etc etc). Quote:
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