Mobile Suit Gundam AGE - Episode 12 Discussion

[Kuroi Hadou]

Originally Posted by brightman

Its like we still barely know anything about the current gen, the characters, and where the plot is headed right now, and the gen is almost over already.

Yes, we'll find out more about that stuff in the next gen, but still, would have liked to see more depth to this gen in general.

It's like you guys are expecting the generation to completely die off when we transition to the next one.

[aeriolewinters]

I have to agree with that, there's just not enough time to develop a full cast, provide enough exposition and world building for each of the generations, as well as telling a plot with enough depth, especially with the storytelling style of the show's writers.

This is making me want that time travelling theory to turn out to be true. at least we get all three generations, without trying to move mountains with character development.

[Faerie]

Originally Posted by Vena

This show hasn't shied away from killing people and, *gasp*, showing blood and people suffering as they die.

I'd be surprised if most of the central cast lived through this. We know Flit will survive and (by proxy of his son being born) his wife whoever that may turn out to be (probably Emily as Yurin has been waving the flags of the Titanic). Grodek is not living through this one way or another (or I'll be very surprised if he does), he's a fugitive that will be court-martialled if caught or he's going to die on his nigh-fanatical crusade. Woolf has the flags flying high. Largan is just asking to go in a blaze of glory. (Though, I'd say that one of them will die and the other survive.) Bridge Bunnies are a toss up though the central bridge bunnies are probably 50/50. Adams seems to be on his way to going to down with his captain, while the girl is more likely to survive. All or most of Euba and Zalaam are probably going to die, and the Enact (rainbow headed dude) is probably going to go down like Boyage.

If I'm right, we're looking at a handful of survivors.

That's nothing unusual, so why would the show shy away from death and some blood? Kid's shows for the last 40 years have done so, it's hardly a revolution

Tbh though, after this episodes treatment of the "glorious mutineers" I doubt they or even Grodek would be court martialled if they survived. Might defect somewhere or be hailed heroes more likely. If it DID happen, I'd be positively surprised, I just doubt it. I'm also thinking they might go for a much happier ending, Grodek might die, some of the uninteresting Euba and Zalam grunts might too, but I doubt a lot of the main cast is on their way out, just because it's presenting itself as such a self-righteous kiddie show at the moment.
Again, I'll be positively surprised if you're right, hope you are.
Ahhh well in reality what bugs me is just that I care so little about the cast when I would like to. After all, I'm watching this, I shouldn't hope for a school days-esque finale

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

In my experience patience often pays off when it comes to Gundam series. Honestly that goes for anything with 50 episodes though. You just need to have it if you are going to make that long-term a commitment and I've always argued you need to actually allow for things to develop over a long span of time as well. Expecting everything about a show to immediately hit it's mark (especially one that takes place over a long space of time both literally and conceptually) in the first 1/5 of a show is just really poor practice and will never EVER end in anything other than disappointment.

I actually disagree with this part, sorry. Obviously longer shows can afford to not dish out the good stuff until a couple episodes in- as opposed to a 12 ep show, that needs to do so by ep 3, but 12 episodes in is pushing it, even if this was a show with stellar cast and mad credentials- especially considering that what is wrong with the show are fundamental issues, among which are bland battles, amateurish score, two dimensional characters with no depth and little to indicate that there's more to them than meets the eye, etc etc, it's been mentioned many times- not slow development or anything like that.
And I've never had this issue with a Gundam show, not this badly, or any other long show either.
Also, why should you have to make a "commitment" and "give it time", this isn't a relationship, it's entertainment, and it's supposed to entertain and be well done. Sorry to be blunt.

To sum up, a show doesn't need to do everything right, but it needs at least one big selling point. That can be anything, well-written plot, characters, staff etc. What does AGE have, except "potential" that still has nothing but been hinted at after the first arc is almost at a close.
If you're having 15-16 episode arcs, you can't still have done nothing to make the show stand out by the end of arc 1. Come on, that's even pushing it for a show that has 50 episodes of the same cast.

They are trying to do too much in a 50 episode show.....cause they are? Sorry I'm not following here, what point are you trying to make exactly and what exactly is this assumption being based on?

I think he's saying that 50 episodes isn't enough to develop 3 different generations of cast, while giving each their fair amount of depth. While I would normally disagree with this, regarding AGE so far, I can see where he's coming from. As far as the first generation goes, it hasn't been executed well. Unless the writing drastically changes, there might be three generations of bland characters, none of which sticks out. That would be the worst case scenario.

There's a sensor sweep sound? I seriously had no idea, but now I'm curious to go back to the episode and listen. Maybe it's my experience with Star Trek and Gundam in general, but honestly those things just sort of tend to fade into the background for me at this point as something I kind of expect to just be there.

There is and it's grating to a lot of people, apparently. Good for you that you hadn't noticed. I actually mistook it for a terrible piece of BGM. But it's doubtful that not noticing it has to do with your implied greater experience, it's just not a pleasant sound to some people

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

It's like you guys are expecting the generation to completely die off when we transition to the next one.

That's not what we're expecting. We're expecting the characters personalities and the setting to be well developed so by the time the next generation hits, we can actually see how both of those things evolve through time, instead of it merely being a change of ages and years. The generation shift should actually mean something as opposed to being a mere gimmick.

[Realist_Classic]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

There's a sensor sweep sound? I seriously had no idea, but now I'm curious to go back to the episode and listen. Maybe it's my experience with Star Trek and Gundam in general, but honestly those things just sort of tend to fade into the background for me at this point as something I kind of expect to just be there.

Yup, it's there whenever we have a bridge scene. I like it, and it makes the Diva's bridge sound scientifiky.

Originally Posted by brightman

Its like we still barely know anything about the current gen, the characters, and where the plot is headed right now, and the gen is almost over already.

Yes, we'll find out more about that stuff in the next gen, but still, would have liked to see more depth to this gen in general.

I prefer a bit more foundation to the opening generation, like what wingdarkness had mentioned because there would be more implications from what we already know. They cynic in me says that the head writer really wants you to buy the AGE RPG for a more well-rounded story.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

I actually disagree with this part, sorry. Obviously longer shows can afford to not dish out the good stuff until a couple episodes in- as opposed to a 12 ep show, that needs to do so by ep 3, but 12 episodes in is pushing it, even if this was a show with stellar cast and mad credentials- especially considering that what is wrong with the show are fundamental issues, among which are bland battles, amateurish score, two dimensional characters with no depth and little to indicate that there's more to them than meets the eye, etc etc, it's been mentioned many times- not slow development or anything like that.
And I've never had this issue with a Gundam show, not this badly, or any other long show either.
Also, why should you have to make a "commitment" and "give it time", this isn't a relationship, it's entertainment, and it's supposed to entertain and be well done. Sorry to be blunt.

I thrive on bluntness, however I completely disagree with the way in which you and others seem to be approaching this show. My only response would be why not give a 50 episode show time and allow it to unfold it's tale? Especially when there's some very displeased people that have made their intent to follow it through to the end regardless of how apparently awful it is very clear. At that point that's basically what your doing, giving it the whole 50 episodes, but if in committing to watching the whole thing you're not going to give it it's fair due than I really don't understand how their can be any goal other than to just watch to gripe.

However if one is actually considering dropping the show at this point then yeah that does change things and no you shouldn't really have to sit through a full 50 episodes if you just plain aren't enjoying it at all 12 episodes in. That's ample opportunity and if it isn't doing it for you then there's really only one option to take that I can see.

Personally though I fail to see where these bland battles are, I actually quite like the score and find it fitting, feel that the core cast (Flit, Emily, Grodek, Yurin) is deeper and their fates more intertwined than people are giving it credit for, and feel they are doing everything to foreshadow that there is very much more to what's going on than meets the eye and that this factor will very shortly come into play.

To sum up, a show doesn't need to do everything right, but it needs at least one big selling point. That can be anything, well-written plot, characters, staff etc. What does AGE have, except "potential" that still has nothing but been hinted at after the first arc is almost at a close.
If you're having 15-16 episode arcs, you can't still have done nothing to make the show stand out by the end of arc 1. Come on, that's even pushing it for a show that has 50 episodes of the same cast.

The way some people go on I'd be hard pressed to believe that they feel it does much of anything right, but of course I continue to disagree. Age's selling point is the multi-generation thing by the way though, and how the different generations and factions interact with and see the same situations through different viewpoints and approach them from different angles based on their value systems and the situations they grew up with. Yeah some of these portrayals like Don's could be a little childish at times, but it is a kids show and it is there as a core theme.

If I had to guess this arc is all about building the scenario for everything that is yet to come in the next couple of generations, that's another reason why I feel the show at least deserves the time to play it's main gimmick in full. If other people feel differently though than I really don't know what to say though other than that if you really aren't enjoying it at all and don't care to see how they do the second generation then a good place to drop it is almost upon us.

And again I'm enjoying the show for what it is right now and really cannot see any major show breaking faults in play either. Yeah again things were a little slow during the Fardain arc, but stuff is still happening and I want to see where it goes from here.

I think he's saying that 50 episodes isn't enough to develop 3 different generations of cast, while giving each their fair amount of depth. While I would normally disagree with this, regarding AGE so far, I can see where he's coming from. As far as the first generation goes, it hasn't been executed well. Unless the writing drastically changes, there might be three generations of bland characters, none of which sticks out. That would be the worst case scenario.

Well that's your right then. Not quite sure what defines a bland character and where the cutoff if this cast is what passes for bland though. Personally I was hooked on Flit's arc when I found out how vested he is in this whole fight and how the war with the UE hits so close to home with him and I've enjoyed seeing how and where the other characters come into play in influencing him. Already the older generation has played a huge part in influencing him through sharing their experiences with the kid and I'm kind of looking forward to seeing how he passes all of this onto the next generation and what they are going to be like.

There's a very human factor to this show at it's core that I think a lot of people are missing out on in their demand for bigger badder battles or whatever else it is they want, but if people don't want to see it then they'll never see it.

There is and it's grating to a lot of people, apparently. Good for you that you hadn't noticed. I actually mistook it for a terrible piece of BGM. But it's doubtful that not noticing it has to do with your implied greater experience, it's just not a pleasant sound to some people

Well this is a Gundam show so I guess people would find that grating in this particular case. Swear to god people get really nit picky when it comes to this franchise and find the silliest little things to gripe about and this one is one of the all time greats in the making. I'm trying to envision a scenario where any place else that would be a major issue and I'm coming up with nothing.

Originally Posted by brightman

He's saying that three generations of stories is too much for a 50 episode show...

I have to agree with that, there's just not enough time to develop a full cast, provide enough exposition and world building for each of the generations, as well as telling a plot with enough depth, especially with the storytelling style of the show's writers.

Its like we still barely know anything about the current gen, the characters, and where the plot is headed right now, and the gen is almost over already.

Yes, we'll find out more about that stuff in the next gen, but still, would have liked to see more depth to this gen in general.

If this is actually the case than explain to me why anybody is still watching this show then? If there's just nothing going for it and it's totally hopeless than why are we here?

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

If this is actually the case than explain to me why anybody is still watching this show then? If there's just nothing going for it and it's totally hopeless than why are we here?

What, we're not allowed to watch a show that we think is flawed? It's entertainment, we watch to be entertained.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by brightman

What, we're not allowed to watch a show that we think is flawed? It's entertainment, we watch to be entertained.

And Bingo was his name-oh...

Especially when there's some very displeased people that have made their intent to follow it through to the end regardless of how apparently awful it is very clear. At that point that's basically what your doing, giving it the whole 50 episodes, but if in committing to watching the whole thing you're not going to give it it's fair due than I really don't understand how their can be any goal other than to just watch to gripe.

Because AGE might have a GSD ep 28, that makes you believe the show has somehow saved itself, only to fall back into the quagmire...We watch in the hopes we will one day be amazed by something, like ep 28 of GSD once did for that show before it continued it's awfulness...It's a process to be sure, but having a free 20 mins in your life to dedicate to this matter makes it easier...

[Realist_Classic]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

It makes you believe the show has somehow saved itself, only to fall back into the quagmire...We watch in the hopes we will one day be amazed by something, like ep 28 of GSD once did for that show before it continued it's awfulness...It's a process to be sure, but having a free 20 mins in your life to dedicate to this matter makes it easier...

Those who conceived the AGE project found a great way to keep viewers hooked even before we know of the actual content--the generations concept. Don't like Flit's arc? Well, there's Asem. Asem's too boring? How about moe Kio? Three main protagonists, three eras, the possibilities are endless. They get at least three tries to bring people onboard.

The analogy to watching GSD doesn't really apply to me, at least. I dropped it by episode ten or so because of mainly Shinn, and the disappointment over how they failed to improve on Seed's universe. Apparently I missed out on the really lousy stuff that happened later on. However, by then, the table was pretty much already set as to the nature of the plot. With AGE, there's the built-in partial reset button that gets pressed twice.

[Znozzy]

Average episode, battle with the UE was nice. No explanation to Largan's Dods-rifle was given, oh well, couldnt be expected either, good to see him being useful now though!

Grodek and captain chocolate bar's brain battle was meh, boring dialogue and wasted time imo.

Giving the episode a 6/10.

[Dark Wing]

just watched this episode...so let me get this straight Flint's a New Ty...Ummmm "X-Rounder" whose powers are just starting to surface...

Dose that mean that His Grandson is going to have Kira level hax or something?

[mechalord]

- Largan is a good pilot. He was handpicked as the Gundam AGE program's test pilot... he has to be good.

This generation will still be around in the next part of the story. This is merely the prologue to a much bigger conflict. The UE/Federation war will sprout from the events in these episodes.

Flit and whoever survives will be older but still around in the next part.

I guess the next 2 parts will be longer and the second or third pilot will be fighting into their later adult years? Adult Flit may be the pilot of AGE to start off the second part of the story.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Average episode, battle with the UE was nice. No explanation to Largan's Dods-rifle was given, oh well, couldnt be expected either, good to see him being useful now though!

Grodek and captain chocolate bar's brain battle was meh, boring dialogue and wasted time imo.

Giving the episode a 6/10.

I don't think it's needed.

For the record the Genoace was upgraded a few episodes ago with heavier armour to allow to withstand double the punishment it could normally take.

So after 10 episodes where the Dods rifle was introduced it'd make sense for grandpa to at least retrofit a new rifle that the grunts could use.

And I find it a tad silly that while people are complaining about how the show gives an explanation for almost everything others complain that there isn't enough.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

just watched this episode...so let me get this straight Flint's a New Ty...Ummmm "X-Rounder" whose powers are just starting to surface...

Dose that mean that His Grandson is going to have Kira level hax or something?

Flit's "hax" level, at the age of 14, already surpasses what Kira has shown to be able to do at the age of 18.

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

And I find it a tad silly that while people are complaining about how the show gives an explanation for almost everything others complain that there isn't enough.

That's not silly at all, that's just how it is when different people watches the same show. That's why you can never please everybody, but you can somewhat please a majority of a certain group of people.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

I don't think it's needed.

For the record the Genoace was upgraded a few episodes ago with heavier armour to allow to withstand double the punishment it could normally take.

So after 10 episodes where the Dods rifle was introduced it'd make sense for grandpa to at least retrofit a new rifle that the grunts could use.

Oh, i know it was upgraded, but why they explained the armor upgrade and not the Rifle one is kind of wierd.

And I find it a tad silly that while people are complaining about how the show gives an explanation for almost everything others complain that there isn't enough.

its a matter of opinion i guess, some people prefer them explaining every move during combat, like the chocolate bar captain vs grodek in episode 12 while some prefers a more technical? explanation i'd say, its not that they arent explaining, its that they are missing some imo, vital parts like the Dods rifle for example, or Woolf getting his Dodsish rifle, but as i mentioned above its a difference in opinion.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Well unlike in Gundam SEED the Diva's crew isn't exactly short of supplies and have been able to make friends with the colonies they've visited.

In SEED they had to scavenge for supplies in Junius 7 but in AGE they just go from one colony to the next and none of them have indicated they are short of supplies.

So there's no reason why Vargas should be short of material to upgrade the 3-MS's he has on board. In fact it's just the Genoace he needs to take care of. Woolf has his Exe and the AGE takes care of the gundam. The AGE just supplies the schematics and Vargas should easily be able to make a scaled-down version.

I mean isn't that the whole point of the AGE system and this series? They need to advance their tech level and it's being shown slowly. As the Gundam evolves so does the other suits.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

So there's no reason why Vargas should be short of material to upgrade the 3-MS's he has on board. In fact it's just the Genoace he needs to take care of. Woolf has his Exe and the AGE takes care of the gundam. The AGE just supplies the schematics and Vargas should easily be able to make a scaled-down version.

Apparently it finally has, thank god. took it long enough

I mean isn't that the whole point of the AGE system and this series? They need to advance their tech level and it's being shown slowly. As the Gundam evolves so does the other suits.

Indeed it is, but its being used in such a strange way, it makes the Dods rifle for the AGE-Normal type and then the G-exes apparently has a Dods rifle named " Beam rifle " like its nothing special, nothing was mentioned about it, it just came with the package.
In this episode we see the Genoace have a Dods rifle of its own, once again this went unmentioned.

Yet they have the time to explain the Genoace getting a armor upgrade? i mean its like they completely ignored the AGE Builders schematics being mass produced(if it even was the AGE Builder to begin with, it might've been Mardonas)
when its supposed to be one of the main parts about AGE to help them against the UE, i dont understand why they can't take 2 seconds to actually mention where they got the rifles from.

I mean, the AGE-1 Normal type getting the Dods rifle finally gave them a " edge " against the UE, yet that goes unmentioned for the rest of the show, its confusing

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by monster

That's why you can never please everybody, but you can somewhat please a majority of a certain group of people.

Sounds like the Mission Statement for the CBS Television Network...But seriously, I'd be a lot less harsh on AGE if it went hardcore on something, anything...

I'm not a specs guy by any stretch (citing the specs posts above), I like coming up with creative wordplay to describe that area (you remember .//hackatsuki & the Swizz Army Knife called Infinite JustUS I'm sure^^), but if AGE just went hardcore on that, while I wouldn't like it personally I'd respect that...I just don't see any area I can respect...I don't see one area where they're killing it...

Every Gundam show I've watched has had one area where they just kill it...(Obviously subjective, but) In Gundam SEED it was over-dramatization, in GSD it was insert-songs and BGM's, in Zeta it was cold impromptu death (actual killing it), in Victory it was the glorifying of death, in Wing it was epic speeches and philosophical idealism, in Turn A it was a multiplicity of characterization, in Gundam 00 it was character motivations, In G it was 2-player Street Fighter action^^...So on and so forth, but my point is that there's always one area in all of these shows that they just pimp out or obviously focus on...

I have no clue what AGE is pimping out...What area is it just killing it in? What does it center it's focus on? We haven't heard much more than a sentence on the AGE BUILDER since the 2nd or 3rd ep? If all we have is the 3-time period gimmick...You know what makes that gimmick great? Actually incorporating the AGE system part into it...They haven't done that in the slightest...Where are the scenes of Flint tuning his Gundam up and using past battle information to further the supposed point of the show which is AGE?

I don't wanna hear just be patient or wait, the tell tale signs point that any shift in this direction will be after the fact because of how the shows' writing team has chosen to present the show so linearly...At this point I just want the show to ball-out! I actually have faith that the Bandai execs will send that message along, I don't know why, but Bandai always does sneaky $hit where the whole show changes in the next iteration...We'll see...

[winter45]

Im with WD on this one.. I am enjoying the show thus far but at the same time some areas are seriously quite lacking which unfortuntately im not holding AGE far above seed verse... Cant put my finger on it but generally on agreement with most poster here in regards of story telling.

Hopefully next segment they will start pick up the pace and more dynamite story telling. At this point im hoping it will turn out like ZZ where the first half was *ok'ish* then 2nd half went back towards more gundam'ish story telling.

@ Kaioshin Sama

I respect you as a poster bud, but you need to remember people will not always like a show, providing posters are being civil in this regards i see no harm. This isnt like early 00days where random poster's would go on about 00 sucks and demand for a 3rd seed series, which is nice for the most part that i can actually read some genuine material than random rage posts.

[monster]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Sounds like the Mission Statement for the CBS Television Network...But seriously, I'd be a lot less harsh on AGE if it went hardcore on something, anything...

Hey, if that works for CBS, then good for them. (If it doesn't, well, that's another story.) And frankly, I really don't care how harsh people are on shows they watch. As far as I'm concerned, that just shows how invested they are in those shows, be it emotionally, financially or otherwise.

But if I'm perfectly honest, I don't think you're as harsh on AGE as you were on Destiny even though, as you've just admitted, you thought that there was at least one thing that Destiny did or focused on well.

I have no clue what AGE is pimping out...What area is it just killing it in? What does it center it's focus on?

Well, obviously they're trying to sell you on the fact that this conflict is so huge that it won't end in just one year or with just one Gundam. Whether or not they have succeeded in conveying the scope of the conflict is up for interpretation.

But if there's one thing so far that I could point out about AGE, it'd be the fact that I still don't know what it is that the current apparent antagonist of the show (the UE) is trying to do. And I don't know if it's intentional and whether it's a good thing for the show, but every time the UE retreats from a battle that they could've won, the fact I still don't know what it is they want becomes more apparent. I just hope that the big reveal, perhaps as soon as next episode, will be something interesting.