2010-06-18, 08:33 | Link #11261 |
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It's too loud. They heard the gunshot in ep1 very distinctly. The Winchesters are very noisy. If people were getting shot while other people were nearby in the house (ep2, ep3 Nanjo), they'd hear it. And I'm pretty sure you can't silence a sawed-off Winchester. Or conceal it. That's why I posit the existence of another gun, one brought there by someone.
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2010-06-18, 08:50 | Link #11262 | |
別にいいけど
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Before EP5 no one really wanted to believe that people just faked their death and Battler fell for it, because it was too ridiculous and needed too many people to be part of the playacting. Of course the same applies for guns, it is ridiculous to think they are fake. But if the dead bodies are fake, then so can the guns.
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2010-06-18, 09:06 | Link #11263 | |
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The one or two times he sees people who might later have been faking it at the time that I can recall, he's prevented from entirely seeing what's going on by circumstance. See also the way Erika doesn't get to see the bodies properly in ep5.
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2010-06-18, 10:32 | Link #11264 |
別にいいけど
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However, think about it.
If the winchesters aren't real guns or they are loaded with blank bullets, then you can easily explain the scenes on EP1. Natsuhi fires, but it just makes a big sound, some gunpowder smell and nothing else. Battler also fires at the shape he sees and which Maria recognizes as Beatrice, however no damage is done. That I know of there has never been any sign or proof of a fired bullet, nor any sign of bullet holes anywhere beside the bodies. And it was never made clear that the cause of their wounds was a bullet.
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2010-06-18, 10:37 | Link #11265 | |
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2010-06-18, 10:46 | Link #11266 | |
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For instance, Natsuhi is armed with the Winchester, "Beatrice" has a pistol. Even if Natsuhi did shoot, if it was a blank it probably posed little threat to "Beatrice," who could casually shoot Natsuhi back. I think ep3 and ep6 heavily suggest the Winchesters are fully-functional guns, or at least can be loaded with real ammunition. The behavior of everyone with respect to them makes no sense if the "fake" faction knows the guns aren't functional or aren't loaded.
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2010-06-18, 11:05 | Link #11268 |
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As a side note, blank rounds are visually quite distinct, anyone loading them would notice if they ever saw a real round before.
Though this brings me back to the interesting metaphor of raising a staff in the scene with Natsuhi/Beatrice duel. It's clearly a metaphor for aiming a firearm. Yet Dress-Beatrice, mentioned in the next scene, is never described or drawn with a staff, but Suit-Beatrice and Eva-Beatrice are.
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2010-06-18, 11:12 | Link #11269 | |
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As to the "staff" and Suit/Eva-Beatrice... could "inheriting" the witch's power mean stealing their gun?
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2010-06-18, 11:51 | Link #11270 | |
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It's actually been written already. Viktor Pelevin, "Fuhrer's Pipe". (Or whatever the official translation of the story would be -- I'm not sure one exists.) In that half-joke/half-scifi short story, Soviet Union is controlled from an underground bunker, in which Stalin's Pipe is not actually a smoking implement that Stalin is normally depicted with, but a weapon, the absolutely only weapon in this completely enclosed environment, a blowgun with poisonous needles. Whoever possesses the Stalin's Pipe is in control of the closed environment since he can kill anyone who opposes him inside it and there's no way in or out. The closed environment is actually treated by everyone else as a black box government control centre from which orders to be followed without question emerge, so they by extension are in control of the country itself, even if they don't care about it or see the results of their orders. More to the point, I suspect that the transfer of an actual physical weapon from one Beatrice to another may indeed occur in some circumstances, in particular Ep3. But whether it's "stealing" or "being given" or "taking from a dead body", I don't think we have enough information to say.
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2010-06-18, 12:46 | Link #11272 | |
受話器持って魔女・エアトリーチェ
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Maria, Witch of Origins, also has a staff?
Also, since the gun came up, lemme post this (although you all probably know it hahaha) Quote:
a) It has to be somewhat close range (for it to be lethal, that is), b) its lethality, although it's a rifle, is more comparable to a handgun then a true Winchester (.45 Long Colts, or sometimes just .45 Colts are more typical in handguns and pistols then rifles. There is no difference between a Colt and a "Long" Colt. The "Long" is typically said to differentiate between Colts and the shorter Schofield rounds), c) its lever action is unique, so if you want to shoot quickly (think Arc 4 when the Gold Arrows shoot everyone in the room quickly [ps 45 Long Colt bullets have a gold hue to them]) you have to be able to handle lever action rifles. and d) You can only shoot it about 5 times (you load 5 bullets with 1 in the chamber and 4 in the internal magazine) before having to reload. It's EXTREMELY important actually. Notice the 4+1 magazine size. First Twilight is 6 people. Small little holes open with that tip that don't have easy answers. If people get shot for the first twilight, then what happens to the 6th person? Last edited by TTR; 2010-06-18 at 13:16. |
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2010-06-18, 13:23 | Link #11274 |
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Also, another thing I was thinking about is that,they always find 6 "bodies". But if that's true then there is no one at the end to kill Natsuhi in EP1. However, if only 5 bodies and a fake show up, the Winchester tip supports it as evidence.
I propose this kill list/howdunnit for EP1 which employs Shkanon and this tip: Spoiler for Crackpot Theory:
Last edited by TTR; 2010-06-18 at 13:46. |
2010-06-18, 14:58 | Link #11275 | |
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P.S. Oops, and then I saw you suggesting the exact same thing. I'm not well aware of how lever action reloading works, do you know if it can be reloaded before the magazine is empty? Then there may be a lot more reloading windows. What bothers me about the whole sequence is that no shots ever miss. I don't think anyone on the island was ever an expert shooter, with limited quantities of ammo available and everything, so this would imply every shot is taken at a non-moving target who either freezes in place seeing the gun pointed at them, or does not expect the shot at all.
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2010-06-18, 15:06 | Link #11276 |
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Sorry for the diversion,
When I re-read EP4 last scene of Ange on Rokkenjima, Ange said to Eva (not Evatrice) that " you are not witch, you are human, aren't you?" Previously I thought it was her clone, but as anyone acquainted with science would know that personality and memory could not be cloned, at least not in foreseeable future. Now I realize I should turn the chessboard. It was true that Eva did not really die, because the one Ange saw was the original Eva. And it was actually she killed the men-in-black and Kasumi. Of course, her gun was shot by Amasuka at the end. (Obviously she had a very good reason to declare herself dead legally, as we all know, she despised her life at that time) How does this relate to Umineko? Well, it has to do with the tea party in EP6, when Okonogi said something about "for the peace of world". So how did Eva come back in life? Organ-transplant. From whom? Her clone. How can that be clones? Kinzo's final invention. And we know why Kinzo wanted to do complete cloning. It was the true treasure Eva acquired from Kwadorian, as well as explaining her wealth even though she did not use the 10ton gold. Why Okonogi would worry about Ange being head of the family? Because if this techonology slipped into the wrong hands, world order could be disrupted. Sounds crazy? BTW, when I searched on the net, I found that there was a real princess called Maria Beatrice of Savoy. An italian one. Of course, she could not be Kinzo's lover as she was born in 1943. Ahh. For the current discussion of using rifle to shoot six people, shouldn't the culprit use sedative first? They drank quite a lot of tea.
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Last edited by ijriims; 2010-06-18 at 15:22. |
2010-06-18, 15:13 | Link #11277 |
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so crazy enough to work that's what!
Anyways I'd think that the victims would have to be sitting down or in some situation that required them to be stationary if every shot were to hit. Like let's say Rudolph was sitting across from the killer and then the killer pulled out the rifle from underneath the table and bam. Something like that is what I'm guessing.
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2010-06-18, 15:20 | Link #11278 | |
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2010-06-18, 15:25 | Link #11279 | |
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2010-06-18, 15:37 | Link #11280 | |
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