The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 16 Discussion / Poll [2009 added ep. 6]

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Sute443

Yeah, at this point it has become clear that they care about surprises. Pleasing fans or sponsors? Not so much. It doesn't make much sense to take something that would already sell really well and then stomp on it for the sake of surprise when the goal is making money.

Sure it does. Take a more long term view. They can sell some now, and sell more later. I mean, when these future novels that everyone's awaiting do come along in animated form, are they all of a sudden going to suck miserably because they're a bit later than expected? Let's say that half or less of the fans buy the DVDs for Endless Eight; will they all be permanently gone when they do animate the future anticipated volumes? I mean, let's pretend these Endless Eight episodes never existed, and instead they decided to somehow book a 22-episode season or something but still not animate Disappearance. What's the practical difference?

The whole anger is really mostly about this:

Originally Posted by mokuseimaru

As for your other point, if Haruhi was a show like Bleach or Naruto (I mean in terms of the length of the series) I would be much more open even to something as ridiculous as this, if only because I knew that eventually the canon material would be aired. But Haruhi had only had 14 episodes before this season and then went on a three year hiatus. While I admit that "Disappearance" will probably be animated eventually, I'm not as optimistic about it being animated in the near future.

...the unknown of how long we'll have to wait for "the stuff we've all been waiting for". I guess I'm just not cynical enough to believe that it'll be another 3 years until the next season.

Originally Posted by mokuseimaru

I've got to say, I haven't been surprised by this since I said, "Huh, they're doing three episodes instead of two. I guess that could work". It's not a mystery or a novelty anymore, it's just an annoyance meant to keep the level of hype high by making people angry. Like I said before, if I thought they really were doing this just to be clever and unpredictable, even if I thought it failed as art I could respect their efforts. But this isn't even failed art: it's cynical capitalism in the guise of art.

I was referring to the surprises of this season on a whole, not necessarily of these ensuing episodes. Once it became clear that they turned this into a full story arc, the only unknown is what will finally end it (and when). That being said, and for what it's worth, one could make a very compelling argument that anime itself is little more than "cynical capitalism in the guise of art"; the only difference is one's own personal enjoyment of the end-result. Personally speaking, I think the merit/demerit of these episodes is just being outweighed by people's anger regarding the aforementioned concern. In time, I think the anger will soften and at least some people will give these episodes another look.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by mokuseimaru

Ah, I made a little error.

Pretty big error, I'd say.

Originally Posted by mokuseimaru

It's actually 10 million yen, but that's what they make per month. Which is 100,000 dollars or so each month is still quite a lot. Here is the link: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...y-from-youtube .

I bet that they spend far more than that per month alone... big business deal in big numbers.

Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge

You forgot to build an immunity didn't you?

No, curses.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

...the unknown of how long we'll have to wait for "the stuff we've all been waiting for". I guess I'm just not cynical enough to believe that it'll be another 3 years until the next season.

But the thing is that we don't KNOW.

And given their current track record, we might well be waiting another three years.

And watch as they still don't give us Disappearance even then.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

But the thing is that we don't KNOW.

Yes, and they've made it pretty clear by now that they have absolutely no intention of telling us. So, by worrying, we're not adding any days to our lives, and we're not changing the situation. Worst case scenario, people can just pretend the 2009 airing doesn't exist and resume waiting for Season 2 (since this clearly is not Season 2, and was never billed as such).

[spawnofthejudge]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Sure it does. Take a more long term view. They can sell some now, and sell more later. I mean, when these future novels that everyone's awaiting do come along in animated form, are they all of a sudden going to suck miserably because they're a bit later than expected? Let's say that half or less of the fans buy the DVDs for Endless Eight; will they all be permanently gone when they do animate the future anticipated volumes? I mean, let's pretend these Endless Eight episodes never existed, and instead they decided to somehow book a 22-episode season or something but still not animate Disappearance. What's the practical difference?

The whole anger is really mostly about this:
...the unknown of how long we'll have to wait for "the stuff we've all been waiting for". I guess I'm just not cynical enough to believe that it'll be another 3 years until the next season.

I was referring to the surprises of this season on a whole, not necessarily of these ensuing episodes. Once it became clear that they turned this into a full story arc, the only unknown is what will finally end it (and when). That being said, and for what it's worth, one could make a very compelling argument that anime itself is little more than "cynical capitalism in the guise of art"; the only difference is one's own personal enjoyment of the end-result. Personally speaking, I think the merit/demerit of these episodes is just being outweighed by people's anger regarding the aforementioned concern. In time, I think the anger will soften and at least some people will give these episodes another look.

The only practical difference is the cost of animating any episodes that appear on DVDs that end up not selling as well... though I'm reasonably sure that they'll sell at least enough to turn a profit.

Of course, KyoAni's been doing more and more faster and faster lately. I think they'll be able to pull off getting us more Haruhi sometime next year, even assuming they give us a Key property and maybe even something else between. My big question is where this speed will stop and wait for the books to get further ahead again. I don't want them to end a series with the end of book nine, and I fervently hope that that's why they can afford to do this with Endless Eight.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Yes, and they've made it pretty clear by now that they have absolutely no intention of telling us. So, by worrying, we're not adding any days to our lives, and we're not changing the situation. Worst case scenario, people can just pretend the 2009 airing doesn't exist and resume waiting for Season 2 (since this clearly is not Season 2, and was never billed as such).

You expect people to be rational?

But you're perfectly right, and I've learned to enjoy the episodes as they come.

All I'm really worried about now is that this might take away from KyoAni's next project, whatever it is... so long as it's not more K-On...

[mokuseimaru]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Pretty big error, I'd say.

Yes, you're right. I humbly submit myself to your judgment. I'm already at the long-ogiji level of apology

[Ithekro]

More Lucky Star then?

Actually K-On is quite popular. Probably more so than Endless Eight...but that's not hard to do.

[dbaranyi]

The CD Japan listing for the first DVD release of Haruhi Season 2 is
interesting:


http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=KABA-6001


It appears that there is only one episode on the actual DVD, and that there
is an "original episode" on the Bonus DVD in the Limited edition. The main DVD is 43 minutes long, but it also contains a bunch of video stuff. I'm assuming that the episode on this DVD is the "Bamboo Rhapsody" episode.

The "regular" R2 DVD release doesn't contain the bonus DVD.

Anyone know what the "original episode" is supposed to be?

I assume that one of the reasons that there is only one episode on this DVD is becauset the "Endless Eight" episodes will likely be released separately.

OF course, it would be hilarious if they released Endless Eight at one episode per DVD too.

It will be interesting to watch how good the sales of the new DVDs are.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

You expect people to be rational?

That's really all I've ever wanted! (A lot to hope for around here, I know... )

Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge

Of course, KyoAni's been doing more and more faster and faster lately. I think they'll be able to pull off getting us more Haruhi sometime next year, even assuming they give us a Key property and maybe even something else between. My big question is where this speed will stop and wait for the books to get further ahead again. I don't want them to end a series with the end of book nine, and I fervently hope that that's why they can afford to do this with Endless Eight.

Yeah, I agree; I think the issue with Volume 10 might be one of the reasons they're trying to drag this out and not get too far ahead too quickly. Of course, it's easy to be cynical and assume that they're just trying to milk the franchise for all its worth (which is doubtless also true to some degree; this is Kadokawa's top-selling anime franchise), but they may feel they need to do this in order to not let the franchise die while the author waits to continue the story. I still seems to me that some strange things happened in the last three years that resulted in this whole situation in the first place, between the novels being delayed, the big fall-out with Yamakan, and so on. It's easy to see everything as one giant troll, but who knows to what degree the companies are just making lemonade with lemons. Things we'll never know...

Originally Posted by dbaranyi

Anyone know what the "original episode" is supposed to be?

I'm sure we addressed this in another thread last week. It's not an "original episode" like what we're watching air on TV. It's an episode of one of the bonus features. They just translated it in a way that causes people to jump to conclusions. The original Japanese solicitation doesn't state it in that way.

Edit: Added basic translation:
特典DVD (「SOS団名曲アルバム」第1回、「谷口が行く。不思議発見の旅」第1話、「SOS団思い出アルバム」第 1号収録)付き
Bonus DVD: SOS-Dan Song Album Vol. 1, "Tanaguchi ga Iku. Fushigi Hakken no Tabi" Episode 1, "SOS-Dan Memories Album" Issue 1

That Tanaguchi special is like "Tanaguchi will go. A Strange Journey Of Discovery.", which probably means more Minoru Shiraishi antics. Someone was mentioning Lucky Star?

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

More Lucky Star then?

Actually K-On is quite popular. Probably more so than Endless Eight...but that's not hard to do.

Popularity is no indication of quality. It's the most terrible and soulless thing KyoAni has ever done.

It is Fuwa Fuwa Time, the destroyer of worlds.

If we're not actually getting more Haruhi this fall, why not Little Busters or *gasp* something entirely new?

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

It's easy to see everything as one giant troll, but who knows to what degree the companies are just making lemonade with lemons. Things we'll never know...

It'd be nice if they just released SOMETHING to tell us what's going on.

Maaaa, I never thought I'd miss next episode previews this much.

[spawnofthejudge]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

If we're not actually getting more Haruhi this fall, why not Little Busters or *gasp* something entirely new?

*prays* All Key Properties start in the fall...

[OverMaster]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

No, they're just pictures. Without a context, they mean nothing.

It was us who hyped it up in the first place. Blame yourself for expecting something you feel you deserve.

You know, maybe I'm old-school, but I prefer the days of 'The customer is always right'. When suppliers of services or entertainment WERE SUPPOSED to do their best at what they did.

But I guess that, for those who like bending over to be toyed with by the oh so bright masterminds of KyoAni/Kadokawa/whoever, THIS is truly worth the hype.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by OverMaster

You know, maybe I'm old-school, but I prefer the days of 'The customer is always right'. When suppliers of services or entertainment WERE SUPPOSED to do their best at what they did.

But I guess that, for those who like bending over to be toyed with by the oh so bright masterminds of KyoAni/Kadokawa/whoever, THIS is truly worth the hype.

You know, maybe they're just old-school, but I bet Kadokawa prefers the days where the people in foreign markets weren't pirating their works left-right-and-center and then claiming to be "customers" without paying a single cent for the content. Where customers of services or entertainment were supposed to vote with THEIR WALLETS if they didn't like what was being served up.

But I guess that, for those who like being on the cutting edge and have the audacity to tell them from half-way around the world that they're doing it all wrong, THIS is truly what they deserve.


I'm being mostly facetious (yes, I know that people in Japan are mad too, and I know that Kadokawa is streaming it with subtitles), but you're not getting "screwed". They don't owe you entertainment. Of course it's fine that your expectations haven't been met and that you're disappointed, but don't make this into some sort of master plan to screw people over. We're in this by choice. If you don't like what they're selling, don't buy it. If and when you do like what they're selling, buy it. If you don't want to wait, watch/buy something else.

The customer isn't always right, but they're always the customer... except, in some cases, when they're not.

(I guess I'm trying to say, "quit acting so butthurt", but I guess that's sort of your point, so... )

[fish eric]

Ok, I finnaly get it. I get what the whole point of this has been. When I watched the cafe scene I was on the edge of my seat.

Go Kyon, Go Kyon!!!1`1!!

That was super intense.


P.S. I thought that clock was gimicky but cool.

[OverMaster]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

You know, maybe they're just old-school, but I bet Kadokawa prefers the days where the people in foreign markets weren't pirating their works left-right-and-center and then claiming to be "customers" without paying a single cent for the content. Where customers of services or entertainment were supposed to vote with THEIR WALLETS if they didn't like what was being served up.

But I guess that, for those who like being on the cutting edge and have the audacity to tell them from half-way around the world that they're doing it all wrong, THIS is truly what they deserve.


I'm being mostly facetious (yes, I know that people in Japan are mad too, and I know that Kadokawa is streaming it with subtitles), but you're not getting "screwed". They don't owe you entertainment. Of course it's fine that your expectations haven't been met and that you're disappointed, but don't make this into some sort of master plan to screw people over. We're in this by choice. If you don't like what they're selling, don't buy it. If and when you do like what they're selling, buy it. If you don't want to wait, watch/buy something else.

The customer isn't always right, but they're always the customer... except, in some cases, when they're not.

(I guess I'm trying to say, "quit acting so butthurt", but I guess that's sort of your point, so... )

You know, this reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Poochy the Dog is introduced, and the Comic Book Guy complains to Bart about the episode's horrible quality. Bart replies something along your lines, but CBG just shrugs it off and says "Worst Episode Ever".

Which was funny exactly because both sides were right and were wrong at the same time. Because although *technically* a company isn't contractually obligated to NOT offer their target public crap, the fact still stands that crap is crap regardless of the surrounding circumstances. And it's still the target public's right to say so as long as this is a free world. Do the companies have to act on it? Not really, but it's pointless to try and discourage criticisms based on those strawmen grounds. They have the right to fail, we have the right to vent complains about it.

And rest assured, I'm not into Haruhi Suzumiya piracy, thank you very much.

[Takamura Mamoru]

You know, another thing I hate the anime EE for is that they make Kyon look like a total moron. Good lord, if you know time is gonna repeat you don't sit around and think "Nah, I'll leave it to the me tomorrow, it's all gonna work out" when this has been going on for FIFTEENTHOUSAND times. And when you know Yuki is experiencing every iteration. It's so stupid.

Because the novels only covered the last iteration, it was left ambiguous if Kyon always had this super deja vu at the end in the café. But it's clear that when he experienced it, he immediately thought "I must do something!"

In the novels, ever since he learned that time is looping, he's been thinking things like "I definitely have to do something" and was aware of the fact that he probably thought the same things thousands of times already.

That makes him look a lot more intelligent and active, at least. I mean come on, nobody, nobody would act like Kyon does in the anime.

Kyon's already getting massive hate for this, even though fans used to love him.

Terrible.

[bhl88]

That's why everyone likes to kill him XD cause he is one thick-

[Tyabann]

I think everyone here would act exactly like Kyon, if you ask me.

Would you actually be able to think of a way to stop summer from looping again?

And besides, Kyon isn't stupid, he's lazy. This is perfectly in character for him.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

You know, maybe they're just old-school, but I bet Kadokawa prefers the days where the people in foreign markets weren't pirating their works left-right-and-center and then claiming to be "customers" without paying a single cent for the content. Where customers of services or entertainment were supposed to vote with THEIR WALLETS if they didn't like what was being served up.

But I guess that, for those who like being on the cutting edge and have the audacity to tell them from half-way around the world that they're doing it all wrong, THIS is truly what they deserve.


I'm being mostly facetious (yes, I know that people in Japan are mad too, and I know that Kadokawa is streaming it with subtitles), but you're not getting "screwed". They don't owe you entertainment. Of course it's fine that your expectations haven't been met and that you're disappointed, but don't make this into some sort of master plan to screw people over. We're in this by choice. If you don't like what they're selling, don't buy it. If and when you do like what they're selling, buy it. If you don't want to wait, watch/buy something else.

The customer isn't always right, but they're always the customer... except, in some cases, when they're not.

(I guess I'm trying to say, "quit acting so butthurt", but I guess that's sort of your point, so... )

All that needs to be said about the ''Customer is always right" thing is when someone tried to pull this off by breaking his pirated copy of the first season. Yes, Kadokawa should probably care what the Japanese think, but while Haruhi did sell well for a moe show in America, it was still only like number 10.

[OverMaster]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

And besides, Kyon isn't stupid, he's lazy. This is perfectly in character for him.

Well, if he thinks no one is suffering anything because of it, sure.

If he knows or even suspects it might be starting to take its toll on Nagato or anyone else, however, there's no way he shouldn't be acting.